Something that should make for lots of discussion...

Introduction

By Scott Oldham
Date posted: 02-28-2005

After years of barking up different trees, recent redesigns of the 2006 Infiniti M45, 2006 Lexus GS 430 and 2005 Acura RL have landed this trio of luxury-laden super sedans at the foot of the same birch.

Not only are all three built in Japan to an unquestionable high level of quality, each packs at least 300 horsepower, an automanual transmission, keyless ignition, an electronic stability system and enough interior volume to haul five Grave Digger fans and their full foam coolers to the monster truck jam. Oh yeah, and all three cost about $50 grand.

But which one should you spend your hard-earned money on? To find out we ordered up one of each and lived in them for one week. We also took them to the track and performed our usual battery of instrumented testing.

And after all that, the winner was clear. Sort of. Meet the cars.

2006 Infiniti M45 Sport
The Infiniti is the hot rod of this group. It has the largest and most powerful engine, the largest wheels and tires, the most powerful brakes, the firmest suspension, and it outaccelerates the others like they're tied to a post. It's also the most entertaining to drive, with a transmission that actually matches revs like a good driver does when downshifting a true manual, and a well-balanced chassis that rewards advanced driving technique.

Our Infiniti M45 Sport was also sportier on the inside than the others, with the firmest and most heavily bolstered seats, a prominently placed tachometer and real aluminum trim instead of the more traditional wood that adorns the interiors of the Lexus and the Acura.

On the downside? Some on staff feel too much tire noise makes it into the Infiniti's interior and its steering isn't as refined as the GS 430's or the Acura's.

2006 Lexus GS 430
The Lexus carries a base price of $51,125, which makes it almost $2 grand more than the others. But that extra expense is more than justified by traditional Lexus attention to detail and sweet workmanship. The GS 430 is built like a fine watch and runs just as smoothly. Its interior is a wonderful mix of fine leather, rich wood and simplistic design. Its forms may not be as artful as the other two, but the materials used and its ergonomics are far superior.

With 300 hp from its 4.3-liter V8 and the only six-speed transmission of the group, the Lexus performs as well. It accelerates hard enough to push you back into the seat, and leaves the equally powerful Acura in the dust. Its suspension, which can be adjusted firmer with a switch on the console, is also tuned to near perfection, delivering a supple highway ride and athletic reflexes.

Flaws are limited to very grabby brakes, which make it hard to stop smoothly, and a very aggressive stability control system, which cannot be shut down.

2005 Acura RL
The Acura's story is value. For the as-tested price of $49,470, the RL comes with such luxuries as a navigation system with voice-command capability, satellite radio, a power sunroof, a power rear sunshade and a premium 10-speaker audio system, all of which cost extra on the Infiniti and the Lexus. And it's the only car in this test with all-wheel drive (the Lexus and Infiniti are rear-wheel drive).

The Acura is quick, and it can be surprisingly fun to toss around, but it's just not as focused on performance as the other two. It's powered by the only V6 engine in the test, and it doesn't have as much grunt off the line as the V8s in the other cars. It also doesn't handle as well as the others despite its all-wheel drive, and its brakes are the most easily overheated.

Some also feel the Acura's interior materials and décor aren't up to the RL's $50,000 price tag, and its seats, which are the softest and least bolstered of the bunch, just aren't sporty enough for a sport sedan.

Lexus Wins a Close One
Here's the reality: Anyone from Tony Stewart to Martha Stewart would be happy owning any one of these three cars. They're all that good.

So good, that after all our driving, after all our note taking and score keeping and track testing and long-winded discussions about cupholders and trailing-throttle oversteer and rear-seat legroom, all three finished within four points of each other. Four points out of 100.

Basically, for all intents and purposes, it was a tie.

Still, on paper, it's the Lexus that comes out on top. Its combination of performance, luxury and astonishing attention to detail cannot be ignored. It's a car worthy of its price premium over the others, and it's a car anyone would be proud to own. But the Acura RL has run a very close second, very close, and the Infiniti M45 Sport a close third.
__________________

 

I love reading opinions of stuff that I own and seeing how wrong I think they can be.

They go on about the GS not having a control knob and using a touchscreen and saying how easy it is and then they imply the RL has poor ergonomics. Well I can say that I think they are so wrong to say that.

First, the control knob in the RL is fine and to me is better than a touchscreen that you have to look at while using. Touchscreens have a "neat factor" but IMO, are not a good thing to have in cars because they require you to look at them to use and also get smudged up big time. The knob is easy to use and it has that voice feedback when using it so you never have to look at the screen. If anyone has an issue with that and finds it hard then I must question their intelligence level.

Second, the RL is pretty ergonomic. Everything is BAM! right there and simple to use. How exactly is the GS more ergonomic and why in the world are they jizzing over the hidden control panel? Doesnt seem like some ergonomic wonder to me...

I also find it funny they say the GS is the most luxurious with respect to interior quality. Now, I havent sat in it yet but from what dseag2 (a former Lexus owner) says as well as other Lexus owners/lovers, the car's interior is a letdown. Naturally I can't form my opinion until I see it first hand but I do find it funny these Lexus owners have a totally diff opinion than these edmunds guys who are praising it for being so great.

I LOVE the comment they make that some didnt feel the RL interior materials were up to the price. HUH!?!?! It is on par with the LS430 interior with respect to materials!! My goodness...that comment right there makes this whole comparison worthless to me because it is flatout WRONG...yes, I said wrong and there is no debate to that. If the RL's materials aren't good enough then no car under 100 K has worthy materials.

Once again, this is why I dont put much value in car comparisons. IMO anyone who makes that interior materials comment about the RL has a useless opinion and I think they are biased beyond belief. It is that single comment that makes this whole comparison bunk in my mind and I'd think that even if they LOVED the RL and declared it the greatest car ever.

I am convinced my life is about being the total opposite of the mainstream. What most people like I don't like and what I like most people dont like. Funny.

I find their stereo evaluation to be amusing simply because of the bass comment with the RL. To me I read it to imply they juice up the subwoofer/bass levels and then are harping about distortion. That is IMO not good stereo judging as you should judge the system on its dynamic range not how much you can boost the bass...give me a frequency response graph (ok mabe not a sweet graph but at least mention the frequency limtis of the system) not some lame ass "we cranked the bass to listen to metal and it distorted" comment. The RL's subwoofer at default level is pretty damn good if a bit slow and the bass level is good with respect to the other frequencies. If there is a weakness with the bass (well, the subwoofer) it is that it doesn't go low enough (meaing LOWER FREQUENCIES) NOT loud enough which it does just fine....so mnay think louder bass means more/deeper bass and that is horsehsit. Then again I actually value accurate audio rather than super bass with some midrange and treble sprinkled in. When I was younger I used to boost the bass but now I think music with boosted bass levels sounds like complete shit. In fact, I wish I could level each speaker in the RL with a test CD so I could have them at accurate levels.

I need to do my own comparison of these cars as it'd be a great one. I'd use....LOGIC in it.

Before anyone harps at me I am just merely making a comment on this comparo and it really isn't a big deal to me. I am not gonna start crying or cursing the edmunds editors because they didn't feel the piece of metal I own is better than a piece of metal others own. I dont care what the opinion there was (hell...they are just strangers to me and for all I know they molest children so why would I put value in people like that) aside from the fact I think in some areas they are full of shit and my beef with that is more of a "htf can a human being lack the logic to make that statement?" way of thinking rather than what they actually said. I like people to use logic when evaluating stuff or making opinions and many things they say in this comparo lack logic and that is why I commented on them.

 

Holy fanboy Batman!!! The Rl should be very pleased to finish AHEAD the V-8 M45 sport more than anything. They didn't say the car was bad, its just neither one is a Lexus.

 

I must admit that like the fact that they actually drove and experienced the cars over a period of time, best way to get the feel of them. I also like the fact that they didn't just simply do 0-60 and skidpan tests, but commented on the drivability (although I have a disclaimer on this below).

The review is a little confusing at times, especially since the RL got good marks from Edmunds on the interior quality, but gets penalized by Scott. I cannot comment on the Lexus 'cos I haven't sat in it yet, but my expectations have been set REALLY high since the interior quality of the RL is quite flawless to me...I cannot think of a single item to complain about.

I think in the end that what this exposes is the fact that, technically and quality-wise, these 3 cars are so close to each other that it all boils down to personal opinion. Even the writer admits that it came down to "long winded discussions about cupholders".

The only real error I think that they made was deciding to award a winner based on points....my car has 3 points of acceleration but yours has only 2...how stupid.

Pete

By the way, Rob...where did you see the comments on the stereo, I didn't see them either in the post in the forum or on the Edmunds website???

 

Good catch Pete,

Rob,

I think you may be losing it. There isnt a review of the stereo in this review. You probably just mixed it up with another review.

"The mind is a terrible thing to waste"

 

Wow, how we are jumping on Rob...and needlessly so, I would add. If you look to the left of the review on the Edmunds page, there is a link that says "Stereo Evaluations."

The GS received a 10, RL received a 9 and M45 received a 7.

 

NO! We are not jumping on Rob. I was just having a little fun with him and he and Pete definately have mutual respect each other based on post in this and other forums. I just saw the post above and based my information on the that post.

 

Also note that the M45 did not come with the top of the line audio system, so take that rating from Edmunds with a grain of salt. That 7 was for the standard audio system.

 

Phile,

Rob is one of the last people I would "jump on", since I respect his posts. I think that Hou-RL is in the same class...this is sounding like a damn mutual admiration society, we gotta disagree sometime in the future to prove a point

Mine was a genuine question 'cos I couldn't see where he got the information from...I guessed I had missed something, somewhere, and I was right.

Pete

For those looking for the report on Edmunds, here is a link...

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=104808

 

Wow, I just checked out the left side and boy, is the senior test editor Ed Hellwig pissed at Acura about something....se the Second opinions link. Now don't you just know that it's not going to be a fair review when someone starts out with "The Acura was never a contender."

Unfortunately because he is "senior test editor" he gets press time, and so gets the opportunity to influence others with his biased opinions. While I'm all for everyone has their own opinion, when the opinion is so far off from the norm, you know that something is up.

Beside that, he looks like a bit of a jerk too...

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/1...a/ehellwig.jpg

Pete

 

R U serious? He speaks his opinon like others and since that is his profession, it should be valued. Acura brought a knife to a gunfight and STILL got in 2nd place. To me, that is not bad at all. Shame on Infiniti, can they ever get it ALL together?

 

Someone who starts off a review with a comment like that is bound to be perceived as biased. The fact that he writes for a profession, and so is in a position to influence others, makes it important that he isn't perceived as biased...he has failed in this.

It reminds me of the reviews in the past where if a BMW was included in the test, it was virtually guaranteed to win because it wasn't kosher to knock the majestical BMW (especially since they were paying good advertising $$$s). If a car ever got close, there was always this "fun to have" factor that was applied to let it win anyway.

I'm not complaining about the review, or the order in which the cars were rated, but when one person has such a radically different opinion from the norm, then something is a little bit fishy, wouldn't you agree?

As for the gunfight, I just hope you don't run out of bullets, 'cos then the knife starts to looks a whole lot better !

That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it

Pete

 

How could the GS have better materials when I see buttprints on the seats?

I guess my TL has materials as good as the GS.

 

Hehe, I was wondering the same thing, I wonder what it'll look like a few years down the road.

 

Very contradictory between Edmunds and Motor Trend huh. Motor Trend ranked M35 non-sport ahead of RL, when Edmunds ranked RL ahead of M45 Sport? Now let's wait for Car and Driver/Road and Track/Automobile Magazine to make final decision.

 

Uh oh. Looks like there will be a second seam on the seat cushion in the '07 GS just like they did with the '05 TL.

 

Butt prints add character...

 

I admit it I'm just a sitter, sat in the new GS and the RL. Aesthetically the GS interior is more appealing, feels much richer, more luxurious. I know overall Lexus' can tend to be a little boring but they sure do interiors nicely. When you sit it in you feel like you're surrounded by $50Gs. The RL doesn't feel the same but it may not be trying to do what Lexus does with interiors.
For pure style and wow factor the Lexus interiors can't be beat except by Audi maybe. I also think the GS exterior beats the RL too.
This isn't to say I wouldn't buy an RL, this is just about the interior feel and look,
and Lexus leaves a better impression to me. I think it will easily outsell the RL, but price may help the RL.

Does the RL have 'puddle lights' like the GS?

 

On car seats or people?

 

I'll have to go take another test drive because I had the exact opposite impression of the GS vs. the RL interiors. I thought it looked like Lexus cheaped out on the interior materials and Acura stepped up. I do agree with you on the exterior though.

 

Maybe I'm just a pushover for the Lexus interior designs. I like some luxury (GS) but more involvement too (RL). The Lexus approach is to coddle you with comfort and quality and isolate you, the RL seems to be more about keeping you in touch with the dynamics and tech aspect of the car.
Inside the RL I was distracted by all the tiny silver buttons. Inside the GS I noticed just smooth panels, wood and leather. The GS I looked at had the black wood and black leather. LeXus and Toyota can get a little boring though.
It's 2 different approaches. I like the RL approach but would prefer a more styling exterior for my $50Gs.

 

I just got done watching the video. In it they describe that to get everything in the GS that comes standard on the RL you have to add options. The loaded GS they tested stickered for "over 60 thousand". Were almost not comparing apples-apples with that kind of price difference.

I think we all have opinions on how Acura could have best spent its 50K to optimize the luxury and/or performance of their RL, but when compared to what is else out there, I'd say they did a pretty good job!

 

Exactly what i thought. How can the RL beat the m45 when most reviews comparing the two put the M35 ahead of the RL. Even that one comparison in japan between the RL and m35. The m35 was on top. Besides that. reviews dont mean crap....sales numbers do. We'll see which of the 3 cars sells the most. I do like the RL way more than the GS though...

 

I hate to say it but sales numbers don't mean crap either, unless you are the manufacturer, or own stock in the manufacturer

Consider the Ford Taurus, great sales figures. Does that mean it's a great car? Does it mean it is better than the RL, or GS? If the RL outsells the GS, does that make it a great car? ...get my drift?

Kinda leads us to the "ultimate" question...what does make a great car great?

Pete

 

They did mention that the RL strong point was value. By them making that known everything else was fair game as far as features.

 

What makes a great car is the one a person likes. Everyone has different priorities and ideas in what they are looking for. That's why they make all different kinds of cars. Wonder how good Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, or any of the makes would be without competition.

 

Imagine what American cars would be like if we never allowed imports.

 

You don't need your imagination, 8-). Go shopping for a Trabant from the former East Germany or a Soviet Lada, buy the cheapest gas you can find, dilute it with some really bad 'shine, then go cruising your neighborhood until the environmental cops pick you up. You'll have a blast. If you just wanna look at the styling that resulted from zero competition, you can check out the Trabant at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland. They have half a dozen of them hanging from the ceiling. I think The Who or som such act brought them Stateside for a tour some 20-25 years ago. I drove one on a visit to East Germany 30 years ago -- a unique experience. The CIA is actually planning to use them on suspected terrorists soon: Talk or I'll take you on a cross-Afghanistan tour in this here new car of mine...

 

What the hell are you talking about?

 

I have a friend who owned a Trabant and drove it across the border when the wall came down...he said that he was so embarassed at everyone in West Germany laughing at the line of Trabants as they crossed...then he saw the West German cars and understood why.

Pete

 

Cars, sufall. Very bad cars.

 

Oh okay.