petemc

Karl_in_Chicago made a great point about the use of paddle shifters in the "V8" thread enabling the car to get improved acceleration.

For me, I mainly use them for a bit of get-up-and-go off the line from traffic lights, or if I find myself in a predicatable situation where I know I'm going to need extra acceleration, like merging onto the freeway.

What about the rest of you? Do you paddle? Under what circumstances? What do you feel about the paddle shifters, do you think they give you better acceleration?

Pete

rets

Thanks for the headsup... it's good to know other RL'rs how to perform this...


I'd love to have this feature while it helps me focus more on roads/situations in front of me.

SPUDMTN

While not an owner, I found that I really liked the paddles on the test drive...and I see myself using them when (or if) a new RL comes around my home. But maybe that's just the hormones

I wonder how it'd be with six gears? Does anyone predict that the RL gets a six speed?

Karl_in_Chicago

I use the paddles in 2 basic situations:

1) Fast driving. That is, if I know I'm going to need some spiffy acceleration or - and I haven't made one of these trips yet - during drives through the mountain passes and the like (same way I use the 6 spd in my 'vette). The paddles really provide a great way to keep the hands on the wheel and effortlessly also keep the motor right in the sweet spot of the powerband. The logic in the auto-trans seems programmed to be ultra-conservative.

2) Prolonged stop & go driving. If the Kennedy (or the Dan Ryan or Eisenhower or any other of the Chicago expressways I might be on) is bumper to bumper 5-15 mph stop & go I'll use the paddles. Otherwise it's gas it and brake it, gas it and brake it, as the gear selected by the auto will be too high and need too much gas to start and then not provide any engine braking to slow. Manually controlling which gear I'm in makes acceleration much easier and supports deceleration without having to ride the brakes. Again, same thing I get when I'm driving the 'vette in these situations (but without all that extra effort on the left leg!).

As to the 6-spd question I wouldn't spend too much time on that. A 6th gear is just going to be an even taller overdrive and wouldn't result in some dramatic respacing of the lower gears. In my 'vette there's 4 non-overdrive gears - 1 thru 4 - with 4 being a 1:1 ratio. 5th is a 1.5:1 overdrive and 6th is a 2:1. At 75 mph the motor loafs along at ~1500 rpm in 6th. Certainly Acura could choose to alter the gearing in support of a distribution across 6 gears but I don't think there would be much real world difference and it's quite possible that drivability might suffer. I mean in full-auto mode the RL's trans shifts are VERY smooth during most driving situations - I wouldn't want that to change. I find the current gears more than adequate to propel the car with alacrity when deployed in manual mode. Once the tach is near 3K pushing down on the gas padal makes the RL go "zoom zoom" (with apologies to Mazda).

Rob L

I sometimes use the paddles (or the manual mode of the shifter) when I want to change things up and also when I dont want to be braking every 2 seconds.

I am sure in the summer I'll be using the manual mode a lot more. I have to get used to using the paddles since I usually drive with just one hand so having both is odd to me.

Is there any difference between using the paddles and using the shifter to select the gears? I'd think not but I havent compared them.

g6civcx

Repost from the other thread.

The paddles are very hard to use, especially when you are transitioning the wheel. This is because the paddles are fixed on the wheel, not the steering column, and they move with the wheel instead of staying fixed.

When you are moving the wheel rapidly, it is very hard to maintain the orientation of the wheel to hit the paddles.

With the Ferrari F1, the paddles are fixed to the column, and stay at 3 and 9 o'clock regardless of steering wheel position. This makes it much easier to shift.


I find myself using the console shifter more often than the paddles.

speedyg

I used them in the snow, so not to go too fast down a windy, snow covered hill. They do shift down to number 1 when you stop, so it is like a semi-automatic. If you shift into 'paddle-mode' at a given speed it stays in the gear you are in. The center of the tach shows what gear you are in.

8-)

Never paddles.

Console shifting in the snow only.

I've become a lazy driver.

Rob L

Yeah...that is another reason why I dont use them and prefer the console shifter.

Do other cars with paddles (aside from say Ferrari) have them attached to the wheel rather than the column?

codyt01

I manually shift about 30% of the time while in the car, normally when looking for quicker acceleration or on curvy roads to force a hold of a gear to keep the revs up while going around curves so power is available on exit. I use the console shifter for this about 80% of the time. The paddles are nice, but when you really start turning the wheel back and forth it's tough to keep your hands over the paddles when a shift is needed.

db22

Manual shifting is for sports cars - you need to be able to hear the engine for slick shifting. The RL does have some advantages in responsiveness when manually shifting, with paddles or console, but you have to look at the tach to get the most out of the engine without the red line limiter becoming intrusive.

g6civcx

Sport cars are meant to be driven with earplugs. Therefore you must rely on tactile sensation, not auditory cues for shifting.

And another thing, a best-practise for driving is to never take your eyes off the road. You must tacitly know your velocity and revs from feel. You may use the rev counter as a supplemental tool to train your senses, but you shouldn't rely on the onboard telemetry too much because they can be inaccurate at times.

db22

If an RL shook and rattled like an MG then my tactiles would be doing my shifting!

g6civcx

Use visual cues to judge velocity and distance. The only time you need to look down is to make sure you completed a gear change.

db22

The only reason Schumacher knows when to shift is when the big red light comes on and he DOES know how to judge velocity and distance.

rets

This is the good point... Without having them mounted on the steering wheels, it's a little hard to utilize these two paddlers in all situations... but either ways... there will be ppl dislike them... or have them into the preferred locations...

phile

I'm a little surprised a company like Honda actually overlooked that when putting the paddle shifters in. They're usually very good with subtle things like that.

g6civcx

1. There are many professional drivers who have what is considered to be texbook poor techniques; however, they can get away with it because they can cover their mistakes and can actually make it work for them.

2. Copying classically proven techniques has a higher probability of making you a better driver, but in the end you decide what works for you. That doesn't mean the textbook is wrong; it simply means you have customised the technique to your particular style. Just make sure it's the best for you.

3. Many professional race cars do not have rev counter. Instead, they use sequential lights with different colours and different frequencies as visual cues. Note that all of this information is fed to the driver in the peripheral field of vision, and doesn't require the driver to look down.

Cheers!

g6civcx

No, they didn't overlook it. The paddle placement is perfect.

They just forgot to give us .5 turn lock-to-lock steering ratios

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Last I checked, the F1 paddles are attached to the wheel, not the column.

g6civcx

That's because you never have to move your hands from the F1 wheel. You can turn the car lock to lock in about .5 turns.

Notice how the wheel isn't a complete circle? You never have to spin it like a normal car.

2veloce

Yes, Prolonged stop & go driving. If I am on 285 or 75 in Atlanta and it is bumper to bumper 5-15 mph stop & go I'll use the paddles. Otherwise it's gas it and brake it, gas it and brake it, as the gear selected by the auto will be too high and need too much gas to start and then not provide any engine braking to slow. Manually controlling which gear I'm in makes acceleration much easier and supports deceleration without having to ride the brakes. Again, same thing I get when I'm driving the Cobra in these situations (but without all that extra effort on the left leg!).


Thanks to Karl_in-Chicago for the help in writing my response

Shotgun

Although initially excited by the paddle shifters my enthusiams for them has wanned significantly. They appear to lack responsiveness & precision! As I approach red-line and initiate a shift it appears to lag or not respond in time before the red-line limiter does it's thing. In other words I can't take it to the red-line and shift - I almost always have to initiate the shift significantly in advance of reaching the red line - That, gentlemen, is frustrating! Of course, on the other hand, it may be my reflexes

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I know that, but I was trying to point out that the statement you copied from another thread was incorrect about the paddles being on the column.

g6civcx

Oh, yes you are correct. I said it wrongly. Thanks for correcting me.

rets

I feel your pain... but, at least, it seems your ECU would prevent your engine buring out.


Is the near-redline the only place to make you feel unresponsive and impreciso? Or, you have found out lots of RPMs would have the same problem... thanks..

Rob L

I'd say the car shifts gears about 200-300 rpm after you tell it to.

dseag2

3200 miles and I've never used the paddles. Much prefer the shifter.

mclarenf3387

No car has the paddles on the steering column which is a mjor complaint with all the cars that have paddle shifters. Although I don't many people here are going to be Auto Crossing or anything so it shouldn't be a huge deal.

Karl_in_Chicago

I track my Corvette regularly. I'm not following why people are making such a big deal about the paddles not being on the column. Shifting in turns is not a typical thing, it's certainly the exception rather than the rule. If any speed is involved and the car is in a turn the act of shifting is going to upset the suspension load and the phrase that is immortalized in a number of IBM manuals "unpredictable results may occur" comes into play. One does maximum acceleration and braking while the car is in a relatively straight line. Brake BEFORE the turn-in, downshifting as needed, hit your apex, accelerate through the track-out (and in so doing the car is getting back to more straight than turned) and THEN upshift as needed - at which time the wheel is going to be in a relatively normal position that easily places the hands and the paddles in common positions. Like shampoo, repeat as necessary (brake & downshift, turn-in, apex, track-out, accelerate).

Honestly the only common situations for my driving where I would think my hands and the paddles wouldn't be aligned would be for very low speed / high turn-in events like navigating parking lots, 90 degree intersections, etc. where I wouldn't be thinking of shifting anyways.

How many of those that think this is a big problem actually take their cars (any car, not just the RL) out on road racing tracks on a regular basis?

I'm not saying folks need to use the paddles if they prefer the gear selector. That's the nice thing about having options.

g6civcx

I understand what you are saying, but there are situations when you need to shift in the middle of a steering transition.

For example, take an increasing radius corner. Coming out of the apex you need to make several shifts in rapid succession with the wheel still turned.

Also, if you screw up and miss your downshifts completely, it's harder to salvage when you're turning with the paddles.

And sometimes you bounce off the rev limiter in a corner that puts you in between gear. Not something you can change unless you change gearing. So bump up a gear in the middle of a corner or be friends with the fuel cutoff

Shifting in the turn is okay if you can revmatch just right. It has no effect on weight transfer.

When you say track, what type of racing and on what level? Drag racing, roadracing, or autocross? Amateur, points racing, or pro?


This is the generally accepted method: brake & downshift, turn-in, apex, track-out, accelerate. But once you have more experience, it becomes brake & downshift, turn-in, begin drift, apex, end drift. Use throttle and steering liberally

Karl_in_Chicago

To me "track" is a race track, either oval or road race, and "strip" is drag race. Not too many apexes on most dragstrips, at least not if they are doing it right.

I was illustrating the classic turning process at it's simplest. I agree that there are some specific turning situations on a track where there are situations where one may need to shift in a turn however they are the exceptions and not the rule. And still - those will typically not be with the wheel cranked over hard where the hands would have need to have been moved off a steering wheel position that grants access to where the paddles are positioned on the RL (and again, we can agree that most normal people aren't considering campaigning an RL).

I'm just still mystified at the hue and cry over the paddle positioning when I feel it's not the deal some claim it to be. One could equally argue that there would be situations where, with a static column mount, one would need to move a hand from it's position gripping the wheel to the (centered) column paddle to make a shift.

As to my tracking, strictly amateur road race stuff. A combination of points-based competition plus as many open track days as I can get to. I keep meaning to try drag racing some day just to see what kind of times I can get but the more HP I pile into the 'vette the more I'm afraid of lunching the rear-end at a hard launch. Since it's my summer daily driver I'm not real keen on that.

g6civcx

I understand what you're saying.

I would like to see somebody campaign the RL against the GS400


Personally though, I hate gimmicks like the paddle when they suck to use. At least put it in a fixed position so it's more helpful.

It's the same with other cars with paddles.

Oh well. That's that.

Karl_in_Chicago

Same here.

acurafox

I'm getting more confortable transitioning between the stick and the paddles when in manual mode, but I use the paddles mainly when I am on the freeway and don't have any sharp turns to make. The stick feels better to me with surface street driving, since there is often more steering wheel "work" to do than when on the freeway (at least here in SoCal). I'd say my use is about 50/50-I like the improved responsiveness in manual mode, so I use it whenever I have a chance.

hondamore

I think that the paddle shifters in the RL were added for those of us who miss the fun of driving with a manual transmission. That is exactly when I use the paddles - when I'm out driving around just for the fun of it or if I'm showing off the RL's amazing handling for friends. For daily driving, the automatic is a lot less hassle than my old 6 speed. I never thought of using the paddle shifters in very slow, "stop and go" traffic as some of you have mentioned (mostly because I don't really drive in traffic a lot) but it makes sense - thanks for the idea.

delacura

I have found that D3 works best for me in city traffic (stop and go traffic). You only need three gears in the city. I use the manual shifting (usually console) when I am cruising in the country. Pennsylvania country roads are so cool...... up and down hills and hardly a straight road anywhere. This is where I really began to appreciate the RL handling. To me using the manual makes the most sense on these roads.