Chas2

Somewhat off topic, because the underlying "First Drive" article is about the TL, but is instructive never the less. The 2009 TL is almost the same size and weight of the RL, and the article concludes (bold emphasis is mine:

Is This Still Entry Level?

Between its size and price, the 2009 Acura TL looks like its slowly making an exit out of the entry-level luxury sedan class. No final prices have been announced yet, but Acura said the base price for a front-wheel-drive TL will start at around $34,000 when it goes on sale in September. The all-wheel-drive model won't hit dealers until November and a fully loaded version will come in around $42,000.

Those are hardly entry-level numbers, but the TL can justify the price. Put it up against any midsize European sport sedan and it'll likely match it for performance, features and comfort. The TL still lacks the prestige factor, but it's never really relied on that element anyway.

With that in mind, don't consider this TL a remake of the old model. Instead, think of it as more of a bridge between that model and the RL. Hardware-wise, it practically is an RL, but when that car soon converts to a rear-wheel-drive platform with V8 power, the TL will suddenly fit right in. Then it can start worrying about the prestige problem.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...hotopanel..1.*

Storm982

Who does Acura have on their design team right now?!
I like the interior, just not the exterior...

neuronbob

I still won't believe RWD and/or V8 in the RL until I see it. It'd be a definite step up if it happens, though.

Edit:
Man, the new TL is big. The TL IS the RL for the next two years.

Edit 2:
and the SH-AWD model is almost 4000 pounds. WOW that's big.

dwboston

This effectively kills the 2009-2010 RL (if it wasn't dead already this pulls the plug). Man that TL is ugly though.

jhr3uva90

The TL isn't entry level, but the TSX is. People have been wanting RL features in a TL body (and cheaper US manufacturing) for some time. Acura will give those customers what they want.

Personally, I think the RL has become redundant. Acura in the USA rejected the original RL design that Honda in Japan offered, so now they have all the RL features in a design that they like.

Chas2

Well, at least someone likes the design, even if it only is they that designed it!

jhr3uva90

The new TL will sell well, just like its predecessors. I didn't think customers would like the previous TL, but they did. As long as the TL is perceived as a better deal than the competition, it will sell. The RL's problem is that it is in a market where the majority of the customers care more about status than getting a better deal.

cai06

Lots of pics here and another video.. looks very GS ish

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/11/a...ra-tl-w-video/

Interestingly, they say the new TSX is selling 20% more than the old model.

neuronbob

RL comments from the above link....

GoHawks

My thoughts...

Grill is still ugly. Aside from that, I kinda like the rest of it.

Interior looks like an MDX.

Question. What good does it do you to have keyless start if you have to put the fob in the dash before starting the car? If I have to reach in my pocket, pull out my fob (no comments!) and insert it in the dash, I might as well have a key. No?

cai06

I think the slot is to be used when your key fob batteries are dead and when you need to leave the keys, several cars have this setup. The new TL must have a true push button start system and no emergency key slot.

dwboston

The fob thing makes no sense. Maybe it's a security thing? Maybe the transponder in the fob isn't as secure as they thought.

The front end and rear end are ugly, everything else is fine. Looks like my next car will be an A6 (or S6 or S8 ).

larrynimmo

I for one really like the TL. It reminds me of what the RL is trying to accomplish...that being said...the RL while quite accomplished is a dismal failure....why do you want to look and perform like a loser.

Koreandude007

Same here, I also like the new interior for the TL. I just hope that acura got the message that people were having problem's with the rear deck rattles, hopefulley they fix all the bugs out of it in the new module, but we won't know until it comes out.

123456SPEED

I like that dark orange leather option on the SHAWD model but the exterior is ho-hum to me. Has that generic Camryish era styling. Breaks no ground IMO.

Interior looks closer to the TSX than the RL. I still love the RL interior.

I think more and more this size car is not what I would want. Going bigger and bigger needs to hit the skids.
Give me a coupe or a TSX or IS with more luxury and I'd buy it.

CL6

This sounds way cool (I wonder if all models will get this):

Acura has upgraded the eight-inch display to full VGA high-resolution. It's a thing of beauty; using the USB port, you can even upload your favorite pictures to display as onscreen wallpaper. Enhancing the standard navigation info, which now boots quickly off the on-board hard drive and even includes preloaded scenic drives, the system also features available XM-fed real-time traffic info, traffic rerouting (if the road ahead clogs, the nav will lead you to a clearer path), and a plethora of real-time weather information including forecasts and scrollable Doppler radar maps just like those you see on the evening news. If a thunderstorm or ice looms ahead, the TL will do its best to guide you around it.

///M Roadster

While I was getting my RL service, I had a chance to drive 08 TL for a day and 08 TSX for several days.

TSX is definitly entry vehicle, nimble sedan with basic luxury amenities, not bad choice for daily commute. Two out of 3 TSXs squeeked during cornering...considering how new they were, dissapointment in that department.

TL, definitely step forward from TSX in the manner it handles the road. More luxury amenities, but still creeked during cornering with less than 700 miles on. Some interior bits looked and felt like they were right out of 90s american cars, cheap and dull looking. It drove nice, a bit harshy all around but not too bad.

So last week has been an opportunity for me to appreciate RL out of Acura line up. Now with new TL...With more power, updated interior, and AWD...I can not see the point of 09+ RL. As long as new TL addressed some of quality and material issues, new TL would be a better buy. What a way to make top of line model almost completely pointless.

halfaznguy87

Like many others on acurazine, I think SH-AWD 3.7 TL will be a great overall alternative to the 09 RL if not steal sales from it:

- Bigger then RL
- Offers better handling
- Same Technology (but missing the cooling seats)
- More power
- Beats RL by about 8k in price equally equipped.

With that said I have BIG expectations for the next RL. Acura raised the bar with this new TL so I would assume they would have to do the same with the RL to really differentiate the models (but Acura has proven me wrong many many times).

db22

Another thread on RL vs. TL. I just don't get it. When I get the rental TL I just can't wait to get a real Acura RL back instead of a large Honda.

jhr3uva90

Acura has little to do with what the next RL will be like. Their only choice will be the price and what to call the car. The new TL is basically what Acura wanted the RL to be. I'm sure the TL will sell well. Meanwhile the 2009 RL will be treated like the stepchild that it is.

dwboston

Same here. Every TL I've driven as a loaner, including a new 2007 TL-S, was a rattletrap. Just because the TL has a list of specs that make it look close to the RL doesn't mean that it actually is. Who the hell is going to pay $42k for a TL? Not very many people IMO. Maybe Acura is going for the BMW model where 80% of the cars sold/leased are the base model. Of course if Acura wants to be BMW they'll need to come up with better lease rates since 70+% of BMW's are leased.

ssim3

The TL is all Acura while your real RL is a rebadged Honda. So you may wish for a real Honda not an Acura.

dwboston

The RL came before the Honda Legend. The Honda Legend is a rebadged RL. Get your facts straight if you're going to call someone out.

CL6

What do you mean? The Honda/Acura Legend ceased to be in the States when it was redesigned and renamed the Acura RL while it continued to be known as the Honda Legend outside of North America.

And until very recently the Acura TL said 'Honda' on its glass (as did the RL btw).

dwboston

This version of the RL/Legend (2005-2008) debuted as the RL in the U.S. first. If anything, the current Honda Legend is a rebadged RL. That's what I mean.

ssim3

The swoopier fourth-generation Honda Legend was launched on October 7, 2004 and became Japan's Car of the Year for 2004–5, marking the fourth time in five years that Honda has taken the award. The new car has a 300 PS (296 hp/221 kW) engine and an intelligent night-vision system to detect pedestrians. The newly designed J35A 3.5 L V6 was changed from a 90 degree "v" to a 60 degree, and added VTEC to improve efficiency. The horsepower no longer complied with Japanese auto industry self imposed horsepower restrictions, and the engine was capable of 300 PS (220.6 kW/295.9 bhp). Honda began to expand the Acura division into Mexico, Hong Kong, and China.

Honda introduced four wheel drive technology on the Legend, called "SH-AWD", which earned Honda the Japan Car of the Year, and Mosuto 2005 Annual RJC technology of the Year award. Select-Shift was introduced on the 5 speed automatic transmission.

VTEC technology was introduced on this vehicle for the first time. M-TEC was added by the MUGEN division, called the M1 package.

September 15, 2005 saw a mild body restyle, which included a rear backup camera.

The Akita and Kumamoto Prefectures adoped this Legend as the official car for local senior government officials.

The Legend received a Mid-Model Change (MMC) for the 2009 model year.

CL6

Sounds a bit convoluted to me. All N. American 'Legends' rebadged 'RLs' for 1996 model year and continued to be called that to this day.

jhr3uva90

Basically, the Honda Legend debuted in Japan about the same time as the Acura RL in the USA. And the new RL probably won't appear in the USA until Honda releases a new Legend in Japan. Unlike the California designed and Ohio built TL, the RL is a TRUE Japanese car.

CL6

While I'm sure the RL/Legend is more 'Japanese' than the TL is, I'm not sure what that really means in the end. The fit-and-finish on the RL is probably better than it is on the TL (whether the new TL will be that way remains to be seen) but the components of the current TL/RL all come from the same parts bin, don't they?

DoctorTuna

I think in perception, the RL will always feel more luxurious and solid than the TL, you just have to drive them both back to back to appreciate this. Having had an 05 RL, it was in the shop more than once for TSBs and door handle fixes and therefore I was able to sample and compare the current gen TL and new TSX to my RL many times. The RL was always a step above in fit and finish and luxury feel which is hard to put down on a spec sheet. Having said that, the new TL has all but replaced the 09 RL which still needs to fight for survival for 2 more years until the new model comes out. This is a serious blunder for Acura, to have your own brand cannibalize sales from the flagship. My prediction is that the TL will continue to be an excellent seller for Acura, especially since they will have 2 different models to choose from. IMO, there is no other place for the RL to go, it has to go big, V8 with RWD, (maybe with SH-AWD option), otherwise it dies.

taitando

Save for bragging rights (i.e. "I'm driving Acura's flagship sedan"), I don't see why your average buyer would even bother with the '09 RL. Especially with the SH-AWD version, since size and feature wise, they are practically the same car. Anyhow, I never considered the TL as Acura's entry level, since they had the TSX/RSX, but it was entry level when compared to the G35, IS, 3 Series, and C class. You could always find the TL discounted for way less than its competitors, which was the appeal of the Acura brand in general. Same can be said of the RL against the GS, 5 series, E class, and A6.

Anyhow, with the TL going into the $42k level, it will be right at home price wise with others in that class, but more than likely discounted heavily again. And with those looks, why not?

static808

This TL will definitely sell. The style is still very strange but it has everything the RL has.

The one thing that makes me somewhat OK with the new TL is that 80% of the features in the 2009 TL are in the 2005 RL.

So for me, I've been enjoying all the stuff for 3 years! Not too shabby.

TMQ

It's obvious that the product planners and top management at Acura don't know what they are doing. Neither does the design team.

csmeance

What that member meant was that he rather have a real luxurious car that was made for the sole purpose rather than have a upgraded accord. That is fact, even though I am a TL owner, I take no offense to it because it is the truth and the RL is a much better car in terms of luxury. Also the RL is pure Japanese car, the TL is pure American, its based off the USDM ACCORD.

halfaznguy87

hahaha I love the RL because its such a controversial car.. Always something to talk about with this car.

db22

That's why I bought it too!

neuronbob

^^ +2

And I'm not sorry I bought one, either.

larrynimmo

the RL is so much a better built car than the TL's. I have owned and ridden in TL's and while for the money the TL's are a great value, the same could be said about the more expensive RL. To me the sad thing is that the RL used the same Honda/Acura door line that the cheaper vehicles did. If Acura had distinguished the RL with a unique door line, there wouldn't have been all those comparisons...Acura RL/TL/Accord...just like Lexus ES /Toyota Camry...LexusIS-F/Toyota Corolla. You pay extra for prestige, buy you also pay more for a better made car. I owned a 2003 TL that was an almost perfect car but it had to go back to the dealer several times to repair 3 warranty issues and one recall.

My RL has not been back, and eventually it will go in for the steering hose recall. I used to buy cheap beer and generic products...now I buy a higher quality beer and mostly name brand products...at 53 quality means more than money.

CL6

But the Lexus ES is a Toyota Camry. Although I can't confirm it I think the Lexus IS is a Corolla (but the IS-F is very different).

I think it's mainly the Honda fan mentality... either they're too smart, savvy, or whatever to not shop one Honda/Acura product against another one and then create a spreadsheet and an Access database to analyze them.

TL1999

i am with neuronbob that if it is V8, RWD RL...I will buy one....