TampaRLX-SH

I have just reached the point where I have my RL as long as I had my TL.

I traded my TL @ 18500 miles. My RL now has 17237 miles

Some Observations:

The RL feels as solid as the day I drove it home.
The TL had a chorus of buzzes and rattles and driveline vibrations

The TL had mismatched seams in the interior panels and loosly fitted front and rear bumper facias.
The RL is superior in build quality and becons Acura former 'Precision Engineered, Precision Crafted' days.

The RL looks as fresh as new. Only noticeable wear is the driver heel on the floor mat and some wear on the MID buttons (to be replaced).
The TL leather wore very quickly and stained easily. Interior trim was fragile, especially the aluminum trim.

Both cars suffered from front end paint chips far too easily

The TL wheels and tires were easily out of balance and tire vibration / flatspot wobble, various PSI levels tried.
The RL wheels / tires has only been rotated per MID and have been care free.

The TL had tons of brake dust
The RL has virtually none

Both cars get very dirty tail ends, very quickly. The TL the worst.

The RL feels as refined and smooth as new
The TL felt coarse and less refined in barely a year

The FWD was not an issue for me when I owned the TL
The SHAWD of the RL makes me believe I will never own FWD again.

The TL Michelins did show reasonable wear at 18K
The RL Michelins have no noticeable wear at 17K

Repairs since delivery:

TL
Headliner
6 de-rattle visits
Rear brake light replaced
Glove box replaced (twice)
Center console compartment doors replaced
Center console wiring harness replaced
Shifter plate replaced, felted.
Sunroof track replaced
Sunroof wind defector replaced
Wiper arm replaced
Driver door handle cracked / replaced
Rear shock tower bushings replaced
Trunk tension springs replaced
Wiring harness under pax seat replaced
Security light on Driver door panel replaced
Driver door side view mirror replaced

RL
Driver seat leather replaced (tear from delivery)
Driver door armrest replaced (leather ‘bubbled’)
Felt added to rear sunshade
Shifter area squeak exorcised
PS hose recall

The TL did not meet my expectations from Acura. I still admire TLs and think it is an amazing design and concept, just not executed as well as it should be.

The RL continues to exceed my expectations and pleases me each and every drive.

No doubts I made the right decision to trade the TL for the RL. I still look forward to seeing, driving my RL, while the TL was traded with no regrets.

AsianTL

Well said + 1.

miner

TampaRL,
How was the shifter area sqeek exorcised? My dealer just replaced the cup holder - no difference in sqeeks.

lindros2

As a 2004 TL and 2005 RL owner, I agree with the review. RL = solid Japanese automobile work of art; TL = looks nice, built like crap.

My only problems were self- and dealer service-inflicted, including cracked wood, broken speaker grill (just happened), mismatched headliner (to Acura: "beige does not equal grey"), CHMSL cover replacement, steering wheel button replacement, etc...

TampaRLX-SH

It was in the shifter plate and the surrounding trim piece. Some felt took care of it. I believe the tech also removed the 2 metallic trim pieces that frame the center stack and felted them.

No sqeeks since then.

lumpulus

Excellent observations, which IMO equates mostly to..

TL - Made in America by workers that don't care.
RL - Made in Japan by auto workers who care.

MDs1

I completely agree with TampaRL since I jsut traded a 2007 TL/Nav only with 9,700 miles for the 2008 RL/Tech Package for almost identical reasons. It has been only three weeks with the RL but I can already tell this car is a keeper. I enjoy each and every ride on the RL while the TL drove me nuts because of the drivetrain vibration throughout the 1500-2000 RPM range.

static808

Well said. Just traded in my wife's '04TL for a '08MDX due to larger family (new baby). While the TL had some pickup and was a blast to drive...The RL's seats, refinement and overall build quality has it over the TL.

As one of the Acura service rep told me when I first bought the RL, for $10,000, the seats alone are worth it.

neuronbob

Man....I had a well-built TL compared to the rest of you, I guess. I had very few issues with it in 56k miles of fun.

However....the RL is definitely better. I appreciate it even more after the redesign ( ).

Nice review, Tampa.

erdoc48

I can't make the above comparisons as I have not had the privilege of driving an RL (I would really like to try one sometime), however, I've had my 06 TL for 25K miles and it's actually been a nearly flawless car so far (no rattles at all, and the only repair needed was an EGR valve replaced under warranty). I'm actually very surprised that so many TL's have had such build problems.

ngg19

This thread and others that attack the skill and workmanship in Ohio is without merit. Next time, cite some facts; go to consumer reports or other sources. I believe CR lists the TL as more reliable.

I love my TL. Except for the impressionable leather and paint chips--my 01 bmw had more chips--my 2004 tl feels the same 35000 miles later as it did new.

fatogre

What do you recommend?

I drive about 18,000 miles a year. I'm looking at 2 used cars.

2006 TL - 25K miles, with Nav, Leather, etc.

OR...

2005 RL 55K miles, with Technology Package

Both are identical in price $27,000 + TTL.

You opinions are appreciated!

dragonlord

Nice review but you make some VERY generalized statements about TL's. I've had mine for 60K, and don't have near the problems you have. Check the TL forums and you will notice that most people do not have that many issues as you did. Do NOT comdemn the whole line, just because you had more problems.

I like the RL, but it has too many "old folk" designs to it, and LESS aftermarket than the TL. So that qualifies it to me as the same as a Buick.

I think Acura/American Honda should do more homework as to what their buyers look for in their vehicles.

dwboston

I agree with Tampa's assessment. I owned a 2G TL Type-S and have driven several 3G TL's, including a new 2007 TL Type-S, and the TL's, while a blast to drive, all had rattles or vibrations of some kind. The RL is just a step up in terms of build quality and workmanship.

TampaRLX-SH

The OP is 'my observations'. That is not generalized, that is specific to is my real world experiences between two cars.....MY two cars. It condemns no one nor any whole line. I am not comparing anyone else's TL, I speak to the TL I owned.

Just as you may argue there are many who have no issues (making my observations invalid?) some post they had the same issues (making your statement invalid?)

I can give a rats ass what Consumers says. I did not see a Consumer's rep in the waiting room each time my TL was in the shop.

I will make another observation: The subjective statements seem more frequent from TL owners, who perhaps, have thinner skin? Reject my observations if they do not apply, or appeal to you. But keep your stones in your little red wagon.

dragonlord

I'm not throwing stones. And my wagon is NBP! I'm just saying I don't have the same problems you did. ANd to the other reaponse of a step up in quality and craftsmanship- it is also a step UP in $$% also. I am in no way bad mouthing the RL, it's just 2 different cars in 2 different markets. Most everyone with the RL's have nothing but praise. I'll keep my sportier TL over the Luxury yacht RL. No hurt feelings from me, and I didn't intend to hurt yours.

dragonlord

These opinions are good, because if my business goes good, depending on the 4G TL I may look at the RL. Wood on the inside and lack of aftermarket are all that are holding me back right now from the RL. ( Neuron's dyno thread also contributes).

lumpulus

All the loaner TLs I've driven from the local Acura dealership (one had only 4000 miles) were rattletraps and sounded very crude compared to the RL...I guess we're spoiled...that said I would but a TL over an RL if it had SH-AWD.

Also, the fit and finish is so much better on the RL, and this is directly attributable to the fact that it's made in Japan by workers who care what they do.

Don't get me started on the UAW.

dwboston

Ever driven an RL? Probably not based on your comments. If you had you'd know it doesn't handle anything like a "luxury yacht" and will outhandle your precious boy-racer TL. Check out the recent thread about the TL driver who put his car into a guardrail trying to keep up with Tampa's RL on a highway off-ramp.

dragonlord

Probably not! And anyone who puts their car into a guard rail to keep up with an RL obviously doesn't know how to drive. I'm saying the TL is sportier than the RL, that's why the RL has more creature comforts. Let's see an RL keep up with Accuratein's TL or Dan...k's TL. NEVER happen.

I just gave my and now you guys have thin skin! I'll stay on the TL forums where our skin is thicker and we embrace difference of opinions. OUTTY!

kirbyflorida

I have an RL with A-spec suspension and it will out corner my NSX on city streets, I am quit sure the SH-AWD Rl with A-spec will do better than the TL's with 2 wheel drive on non race tracks. This is not thin skin, it is technology.. The new NSX, whenever it comes out WILL have rear based SH_AWD. And yes, I have driven 07 TL and TL-S.

dwboston

You're a 45 year old adult and this is how you talk? It's clear that you haven't driven an RL and are generalizing based on your impressions of the TL and what "sportiness" is. I appreciate what the TL has to offer, but as a former owner of a 2005 A-Spec RL and a current owner of a 2006 CMBS RL, I have to disagree with your assessment. I'd like to see any TL of your choosing take a highway cloverleaf off-ramp at 60+ mph without ending up in the guardail or spun completely around. It's no knock on the TL, it's just not engineered to do so. And I was on the TL forums for a couple of years when I had a 2003 TL Type-S - it wasn't exactly British Parliament in terms of civility. This forum is much more civil and open to opposing views.

neuronbob

Um.....

This kinda getting out of hand. Am I going to have to jump into the backseat with my belt?

I've seen dragonlord's TL, and it is hot. Hopefully he still has it next year for the Jay Honda-Acura show. Unless he chickens out in favor of the best-looking RL in Cleveland.

I personally have met folk from the Ohio plant that makes TLs and Accords and they are good people who try to do a good job. And as I said, I lucked out in that I got a nice, early build 3G TL with minimal problems. That is the experience of most TL owners, and you do have to recall that those with issues are more likely to post.

Even so, the RL's build quality IS better. That doesn't mean the TL's is bad. The RL had better be better-built for what the MSRP is. Don't forget SH-AWD, which rocks in the RL. A TL with SH-AWD and enough power to overcome the drivetrain loss will be unstoppable in the sport sedan world, though....

gavine

I vote neuronbob as "MODERATOR OF THE YEAR".

SpicyMikey

I just had a TL with about 6k as a loaner for two days. I was impressed. No rattles, the car handled very well. It didn't drive as smooth and as quiet as my RL, but, I didn't expect it too.

I also don't see a CURRENT difference in build quality between Japan build versus non-Japan built (20 years ago there was a huge difference).

Rob144

I wish my Acura dealer had something other than TSXs as loaners. Still, better than a sharp stick in the eye.

I test drove a 2006 TL several times when I was looking to replace my '95 Legend. I found the driving characterstics of the 2 cars somewhat similar -- kind of an in-between sport and luxury. I always came away from a TL test drive thinking about how well my '95 Legend stood up against some newer cars.

The seat in the TL usually made my butt feel numb, even after a short drive. My head brushed against the roof-mounted grab handle. And I didn't care so much for the metal trim on the console and doors.

I do like the styling of the current TL, plus it has good power, and a very reasonable price point for what it offers.

I look forward to the next TL. It could be a real category-buster.

Rob144

SpicyMikey

Yes, I think most anything would be better then a sharp stick in the eye Even an 09 RL with "that grill"!

I agree, the TL is good in all categories. Now we just have to see how it looks with "that grill".

dwboston

The TL is their bread and butter. The grille will look fine (read: integrated) on the TL. For the RL, Colliver and the boys probably figured that sales couldn't get worse so who cares how bad it looks.

dragonlord

Thanks Bob for the compliment! I wasn't meaning to ruffle feathers, I HAVE driven an RL, it's nice but I was not impressed ( dealer would only let me take a short test drive- with no highway! ). Too much wood, no CF available, and VERY limited aftermarket (worse than the TL). I do LOVE the Spoon racing RL! I WILL be at Jay Honda this year with new mods-mostly visual, and one new performance mod. I apologize to those who I have offended, I didn't mean to. I hope you will all attend the Jay Honda show ( and show me your RL's) and also think about joining the MEGA meet in the summer (check the MEGA meet thread). I hope y'all turn out at the Jay Honafest- I would hate to take home 1st place for the 3rd year in a row!

dragonlord

Evidently you never drove a 3G TL. They are NOT race cars, not intended as such, so I can think of 3-4 TL's that will smoke an RL on such highway ramp ( not here in Michigan, too many potholes!) or a dyno ( where the RL is too smart). I have apologized profusely, so let's let this drop and carry on. In case you're wondering-ask Neuron Bob about my character. Now I will go back to the TL forum. Thanks everyone for your comments AND criticisms. PEACE!

GoHawks

I just had a brand spanking new loaner TL as they were replacing a door handle on my RL. It only had ~700 miles on the odo, so it didn't have a chance to develop any rattles. I drove that car for almost three days (dealer didn't want me to have to make a return trip while they ordered the part).

I was actually more impressed with this version as opposed to the past. Maybe because it was so new.

That said, aside from the obvious stuff (SH-AWD, richer interior, etc.) there were little things I missed. VR wasn't as comprehensive, as was information in the MID.

I will tell you one thing though. Unless people really push the RL, most wouldn't even notice the difference in driving dynamics between a TL and an RL (bad weather handling aside).

At the end of the day though, I was thrilled to get back in my RL.

fatogre

No one answered my previous question/post. Can someone give their opinion?

There are two cars that I'm currently looking at that are both $27,000 + TTL.

1) 2006 TL: 25K miles, with Nav, Leather, etc.
2) 2005 RL: 55K miles, with Technology Package

I've driven them both.

RL has much a smoother "luxury" feel. It's definitely is my preferred style.

However, I also don't mind, and like the sporty feel. If they both had equal number of mileage, I would pick the RL.

But considering the fact that the RL is 1 year older, and has 30K more miles, but equal in price to the TL, what does everyone recommend?

Your comments/help is appreciated!

Chas2

I would try to stay away from the 05s. You can get them up to spec by having TSBs applied, but there were a lot of TSBs to address teething problems. The TL is still within warranty, the RL is not.

You could go for an 06 RL.

By the way, to my knowledge, in 05, there was no technology package. They all came one way, and one way only.

jwaters943

I agree with Chas2. If you do get the 2005, make sure to get a good extended warranty just in case.

Out of the two, I would go w/ the RL. It has better paint, leather and overall build quality. The TL is definitely a nice ride, but the RL is built to a higher standard which will become more evident as the vehicle ages IMO.

Good luck! Be sure to post pics of your vehicle, whatever you end up with.

ngg19

i have test driven the rl twice. while quiet and smooth it was, it felt sluggish and a little boring to drive; similar to my mother's lexus gs. go for the tl. it is quicker, lighter, gets better mileage and depreciates less than rl.
find a clean used tl 6 speed; that is my recommendation.

this is an interesting thread. at first it started out bashing the tl because of its unreliability. now the recommendations are to stay away from the 05 rl because of service bulletins.

bottom line buy the car that you can foresee driving for the next 6 years, whatever that may be.

dwboston

It didn't start out bashing the TL, just comparing the 2 cars. And there are many happy 05 RL owners. The 05 had a few issues related to being the first model year of a new design that were generally fixed for the 06 model. I'm sure you'll find many 2004 TL owners (especially the ones who got bad transmissions) who might recommend opting for an 05 instead.

dragonlord

One thing my dad taught me ( he was an engineer at GM for 35 years) was NEVER buy a car in the first model year. They are still working the bugs out during that first production year.

GoHawks

Well I assumed this comment was true, that's not my feelings after driving a TL for three days (while they were ordering and replacing a door handle for my RL).

What I noticed was...

1. The TL actually had a better ride than I expected.
2. I didn't feel a (seat of the pants) major degradation in accleration when I went back to my RL.

Now admittedly I didn't do any pedal to the metal launches. Just real world driving that included regular 70-80 mph expressway trips that you get here in SE Michigan.

Before the TL drivers started quoting 0-60 times, I have no doubt that the the TL will out acclerate the RL, but it does come at a cost. Torque steer, and as good as the TL corners for a FWD car, it's no match for SH-AWD. Truly.



With sub-7 second 0-60 times, the RL isn't a hot rod, but it's not meant to be. It also isn't really a slouch. The problem is that the torque isn't available on the low end of the tach. You really have to gun it for the vehicle to compensate for the extra drag of the drive train, but when you do, it does scoot. Unless you do that, casual around town driving does give you the impression that the car is sleepy. The heavy solid feel only contributes to it as well, but like I said, mash the pedal and start tossing the car into corners and it takes on a different personality.

dragonlord

Where in SE Michigan are you? I'm in Clinton Township.

GoHawks

Northville Township