Since it's an Accord V6 in the RDX, why can't we use regular unleaded fuel?
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Since it's an Accord V6 in the RDX, why can't we use regular unleaded fuel?
There seems to be no difference between the 2013 Honda Accord 3.5L V6 and the 2013 RDX 3.5L V6 engines, so why isn't the RDX specified to run on regular unleaded fuel to match the Honda Accord?
Thanks in advance for your replies.
Thanks in advance for your replies.
#2
Car Crazy for Sure!
The RDX IS OK to run on higher grade regular fuel. Premium is recommended.....not required by Acura. Overall....some on here prefer burning premium for better performance.
The engines in the Accord and RDX are very similar but, not exactly the same. I just traded a '12 Accord Cpe. V6. HP is slightly different...engine mapping is not quite the same, etc. Basically they are the same platform to start with.
The engines in the Accord and RDX are very similar but, not exactly the same. I just traded a '12 Accord Cpe. V6. HP is slightly different...engine mapping is not quite the same, etc. Basically they are the same platform to start with.
#3
Instructor
Thread Starter
From what I have read, the 3.5L V6 engines on both the new Accord and new RDX indicate the same HP and torque and at the same rpms for each, so to me this seems like the same engine set-up, which is why I can't imagine there would be any problem using regular unleaded fuel in the RDX, since it is specified for the Accord.
Since I am not an expert, I welcome your thoughts; thanks.
Since I am not an expert, I welcome your thoughts; thanks.
#4
Summer is Coming
From what I have read, the 3.5L V6 engines on both the new Accord and new RDX indicate the same HP and torque and at the same rpms for each, so to me this seems like the same engine set-up, which is why I can't imagine there would be any problem using regular unleaded fuel in the RDX, since it is specified for the Accord.
Since I am not an expert, I welcome your thoughts; thanks.
Since I am not an expert, I welcome your thoughts; thanks.
I think it would be an interesting experiment to do. It shouldn't harm your engine. Put in 2 or 3 tanks of premium, meticulously record your distance traveled, do the math and see what mileage you got. Repeat for regular... compare the cost per miles and see if it was worth it.
It does feel nice though to grab the regular gas nozzle and not the premium nozzle.
#5
Suzuka Master
Under normal driving are you really loosing efficiency? If the engine is not pre-detonating then the timing will stay as is, thus MPG should not be impacted, only under load or high demand would it impact performance? GF has a TSX and we put mid grade in it and still get 25MPG around town
#6
Instructor
The difficulty here is trying to do a proper 93 vs 87 octane mpg comparison is very difficult.
All factors: gas brand, quality, driving route, wind, temperature, humidity, driving style, etc has to be the same. Even knowing that you have a certain octane # in your tank will affect how you drive.
One thing I want to try is just cruising on a decent length of road and observing the steady state real time mpg readout between the different octanes ... I'll see if I get the chance to do this
All factors: gas brand, quality, driving route, wind, temperature, humidity, driving style, etc has to be the same. Even knowing that you have a certain octane # in your tank will affect how you drive.
One thing I want to try is just cruising on a decent length of road and observing the steady state real time mpg readout between the different octanes ... I'll see if I get the chance to do this
#7
Racer
The difficulty here is trying to do a proper 93 vs 87 octane mpg comparison is very difficult.
All factors: gas brand, quality, driving route, wind, temperature, humidity, driving style, etc has to be the same. Even knowing that you have a certain octane # in your tank will affect how you drive.
One thing I want to try is just cruising on a decent length of road and observing the steady state real time mpg readout between the different octanes ... I'll see if I get the chance to do this
All factors: gas brand, quality, driving route, wind, temperature, humidity, driving style, etc has to be the same. Even knowing that you have a certain octane # in your tank will affect how you drive.
One thing I want to try is just cruising on a decent length of road and observing the steady state real time mpg readout between the different octanes ... I'll see if I get the chance to do this
Last edited by geocord; 03-28-2013 at 11:33 AM.
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#8
AcurAdmirer
It's probably my imagination, but when I tried some lower-octane gas in mine it seemed to take the edge off the initial takeoff. One of the things I really enjoy about my RDX is the throttle tip-in, or how it takes off from a stop with only the tiniest bit of pressure on the gas pedal. It felt like it lost a little bit of that eagerness.
Again, maybe only my imagination.
Again, maybe only my imagination.
#9
Advanced
I assume it was 1mpg better with premium, right? What was the actual mileage? Around 27-28mpg? I'm just trying to figure out the difference in percentage.
#10
Racer
Yeah, a little better with the premium but neglible. I didn't notice any difference in oooomph but then again I didn't really have a reason to goose it. I was going about 65mph the whole time and it was more like 28-29. I have an AWD. The overall readings on the regular for the whole tank was about 22. I run mostly midgrade now and am averaging about 23mpg on a 50/50 mix of light city/suburban freeway driving. I don't have to drive at rush hour so I rarely am in backed up traffic....just the normal traffic signals and stop signs.
Last edited by geocord; 03-28-2013 at 09:08 PM.
#11
Car Crazy for Sure!
From what I have read, the 3.5L V6 engines on both the new Accord and new RDX indicate the same HP and torque and at the same rpms for each, so to me this seems like the same engine set-up, which is why I can't imagine there would be any problem using regular unleaded fuel in the RDX, since it is specified for the Accord.
Since I am not an expert, I welcome your thoughts; thanks.
Since I am not an expert, I welcome your thoughts; thanks.
#12
Instructor
Thread Starter
Thank you for all of the helpful replies.
When I move from my 2010 Acura TL AWD Tech, to the new (2014) RDX AWD Tech, I will continue to use premium fuel.
When I move from my 2010 Acura TL AWD Tech, to the new (2014) RDX AWD Tech, I will continue to use premium fuel.
#13
Instructor
As I stated before...the engines are NOT exactly alike. HP numbers are slightly different and I was told by an Acura/Honda engine expert...the computer mapping is different. But, you can burn non premium fuel, but, I don't....and if I did I'd put in 89 if it were available. But, the price difference factored over a year is just not that much. If you can afford the car you can afford the little extra in fuel for the benefit of a little bit snappier engine performance and a touch better fuel economy.
#14
Instructor
It's probably my imagination, but when I tried some lower-octane gas in mine it seemed to take the edge off the initial takeoff. One of the things I really enjoy about my RDX is the throttle tip-in, or how it takes off from a stop with only the tiniest bit of pressure on the gas pedal. It felt like it lost a little bit of that eagerness.
Again, maybe only my imagination.
Again, maybe only my imagination.
#15
AcurAdmirer
![Tongue](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
As for price, the increments around here are generally 16 cents, so the diff between 87 octane and the 91-93 Premium is 32 cents. Sometimes it's only 20 cents. Either way, if you used Regular gas exclusively and drove the "average" 12-15k miles a year, you'd save about $200 a year, or $16 a month, IF you maintained the same mpg. You just need to decide if that amount of savings is worth it to you.
#16
This is a great forum, and I am a recent member.
Here is the engineering explanation of octane: It is my understanding that octane has to do with the amount of "anti-knock" additives in the fuel. "knock" or "pinging" is pre-detonation of the combustion chamber, in other words it is the ignition of the fuel-air mixture prior to the spark plug action. This condition is actually like a diesel where the compression and temperatures can ignite the fuel. The combustion chamber is designed to ignite from the plug tip and it rapidly goes across the chamber in a "flame front". When pre-ignition occurs, there will be two flame fronts, one from the pre-ignition, and one from the spark ignition. When they collide a "knock" will occur. Over time, this can damage the surface of the pistons. This typically can occur when the engine is pushed rapidly under load, and the ignition timing is "advanced" by the computer. You can here it in some engines when accelerating on a hill.
So what does octane do? it actually is an additive that decreases the volatility of the fuel and suppresses ignition. So high octane fuel is actually less volatile. So other than the need to suppress pre-ignition, high octane fuel is not an advantage. There are some varieties of "premium" fuel that contain additional additives like cleaners, so that is an advantage in those brands.
I have both a 2010 Accord V6 and and RDX. I have had the RDX for about a month and use regular grade fuel. No knock so far, but I am currently in Florida where there are no hills. When I return to upstate NY, I will see what happens. I think the reason that Acura engineers specify premium grade is that the combination of the 6th transmission speed and the ECC (cuts out 3 cylinders for ecconomy) creates a potential for knock when you hit the accelerator in those modes. As I mentioned, knock is bad, and over time can cause piston damage. So my recommendation is use the premium fuel if you feel more comfortable. If you use regular, and never here the pinging knock, you should be fine. Maybe mid-grade is the best of both worlds, and it is a bit less costly?
Here is the engineering explanation of octane: It is my understanding that octane has to do with the amount of "anti-knock" additives in the fuel. "knock" or "pinging" is pre-detonation of the combustion chamber, in other words it is the ignition of the fuel-air mixture prior to the spark plug action. This condition is actually like a diesel where the compression and temperatures can ignite the fuel. The combustion chamber is designed to ignite from the plug tip and it rapidly goes across the chamber in a "flame front". When pre-ignition occurs, there will be two flame fronts, one from the pre-ignition, and one from the spark ignition. When they collide a "knock" will occur. Over time, this can damage the surface of the pistons. This typically can occur when the engine is pushed rapidly under load, and the ignition timing is "advanced" by the computer. You can here it in some engines when accelerating on a hill.
So what does octane do? it actually is an additive that decreases the volatility of the fuel and suppresses ignition. So high octane fuel is actually less volatile. So other than the need to suppress pre-ignition, high octane fuel is not an advantage. There are some varieties of "premium" fuel that contain additional additives like cleaners, so that is an advantage in those brands.
I have both a 2010 Accord V6 and and RDX. I have had the RDX for about a month and use regular grade fuel. No knock so far, but I am currently in Florida where there are no hills. When I return to upstate NY, I will see what happens. I think the reason that Acura engineers specify premium grade is that the combination of the 6th transmission speed and the ECC (cuts out 3 cylinders for ecconomy) creates a potential for knock when you hit the accelerator in those modes. As I mentioned, knock is bad, and over time can cause piston damage. So my recommendation is use the premium fuel if you feel more comfortable. If you use regular, and never here the pinging knock, you should be fine. Maybe mid-grade is the best of both worlds, and it is a bit less costly?
#17
*sigh*
#18
The price difference between 87 and 91 octane fuel where I am is around 15 cents a litter. $297 a year is the total saving if I used regular gasoline. This simply is not worth it. I used to put 87 octane fuel in my 05 Maxima. After a couple of years, she was pinging like crazy until I started using the 89 or 91 octane fuel. You may not notice a difference in performance in short term but you will see it in long term use of the vehicle. Again thats just my 2 cents based on past experience.
#19
The price difference between 87 and 91 octane fuel where I am is around 15 cents a litter. $297 a year is the total saving if I used regular gasoline. This simply is not worth it. I used to put 87 octane fuel in my 05 Maxima. After a couple of years, she was pinging like crazy until I started using the 89 or 91 octane fuel. You may not notice a difference in performance in short term but you will see it in long term use of the vehicle. Again thats just my 2 cents based on past experience.
Might as well ask the engineers another related question:
Why do the manuals state that it will take 2-3 tanks of the 'different' octane for the engine to adjust? Seems the computer can adjust to avoid knocking almost instantaneously...why would it take more than a tank-full to realize the difference in changing octanes?
And for those who say they are using 'mid'-grade(89?), is that really any 'better' than 87 when the recommended is 91? Volvo used to recommend mid-grade for many of their turbos; but have switched over the years. Acura doesn't speak to 89 as a compromise octane rating(not that I've seen).
#21
From what I have read, the 3.5L V6 engines on both the new Accord and new RDX indicate the same HP and torque and at the same rpms for each, so to me this seems like the same engine set-up, which is why I can't imagine there would be any problem using regular unleaded fuel in the RDX, since it is specified for the Accord.
Since I am not an expert, I welcome your thoughts; thanks.
Since I am not an expert, I welcome your thoughts; thanks.
The new RLX, MDX and Accord use "EarthDreams" technology/engines. What that may mean outside of end-result performance, mileage, etc, I'm not completely sure. I was under the impression the RDX and Odyssey share the same engine, though.
#23
![Tongue](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#24
#27
AcurAdmirer
One of the selling points my sales guy tossed out was that the RDX can use regular gas. When I pointed out it doesn't really say that in the manual, he told me they all went to an orientation course on the new models and were told it was fine.
Now, that's hearsay, but interesting that the sales people were supposedly told that.
Now, that's hearsay, but interesting that the sales people were supposedly told that.
#29
Car Crazy for Sure!
Again....Premium is "recommended".....NOT required. But, personally I would not use 87. 89 IF you have it available. For my '13 RDX I use 91 all the time. My choice.
#30
One of the selling points my sales guy tossed out was that the RDX can use regular gas. When I pointed out it doesn't really say that in the manual, he told me they all went to an orientation course on the new models and were told it was fine.
Now, that's hearsay, but interesting that the sales people were supposedly told that.
Now, that's hearsay, but interesting that the sales people were supposedly told that.
My salesguy said the same thing. I was tempted to go back and ask the service manager to see if he had the same answer (but I didn't).
#31
Moderator
Chapter Leader (South Florida Region)
Chapter Leader (South Florida Region)
iTrader: (6)
Sales tactic since gas prices went up and the need for "premium" isn't a selling point anymore. At some point, I bet they spin it to be like you're using the the better gas cause you have the better car. ![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
J.
PS...around here...no 91...only 93.
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
J.
PS...around here...no 91...only 93.
#32
#33
This may be slightly off topic, but related to the price of premium. I filled up at a neighborhood Chevron station this past weekend. The display on the pump asked if I had a Safeway (grocery store) customer card. I do, and pressed 'yes' and then was prompted for my card number or phone number. I gave my phone number and was then told that I was 'awarded' a 10 cent/gal discount. Sure enough, the pump price was reduced by 10 cents/gal. Nice surprise, and made premium more reasonable.![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
This was the second time in a week, or so, that I was offered this award but the first time I tried having the pump read the Safeway card and it failed. I'm definitely sticking with Chevron while this award program continues.
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
This was the second time in a week, or so, that I was offered this award but the first time I tried having the pump read the Safeway card and it failed. I'm definitely sticking with Chevron while this award program continues.
#34
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
your acura REQUIRES premium as we have a higher enginecompression ratio than of the 2nd gen RDX.
I believe the 2nd gen RDX is sitting at 10:5 and so is the Accord.
Our TL's, however, have an Engine Compression Ratio of 11:1
and the higher octane is needed to prevent knock.
The following users liked this post:
rockstar143 (04-02-2013)
#36
Car Crazy for Sure!
Do you have a TL, and not an RDX??? IF so aren't you kind of confusing others on here talking about TL fuel needs....since this is the '13 RDX site?? Not ALL Acuras "require" premium. '13 RDX's it is not required.
#39
Car Crazy for Sure!
Yes, this is an Acura site....but, more specifically the '13 RDX portion....as there are portions for all the Acuras. Mixing them up is not a help....no matter what you feel like doing.
We are not on here to "deserve" to be confused by anyone, let alone you. So save your BS comments for those that care. I sure don't.