pilozm

I went to a large Acura dealer (Queens, NYC) this week to perform a simple oil and filter change. I had a coupon for a $39.95 oil change. The "service adviser" insisted vehemently that my 2013 Acura RDX requires synthetic oil and that would cost $69.95. I asked them to show me where in the owners manual it mandates synthetic oil. They did not attempt to show me this mandate, in the owners manual.
They then offered to perform the oil change using synthetic oil, for the stated price on the coupon i brought with me, so $39.95.
I find this extremely irritating. I have to go through this every time.
Does anyone else go through this at the dealer's service dept?
Is there any way to convince them that synthetic oil is not required, besides carrying the owners manual to the dealership?

edmua6

Correct me if I'm wrong but the RDX uses synthetic oil from factory is it not? 0W/20 can only be synthetic as far as I know. I used to have a 2nd gen RDX and the dealer always used synthetic.

dbarnhart

Here is what my 2016 RDX owner's manual says:

"Premium-grade 0W-20 detergent oil with an API Certification Seal on the container. You may also use synthetic motor oil if it is labeled with the API Certification Seal and is the specified viscosity grade."

I believe there are oils on the market that are 0W-20 but not full synthetic.

My $.02:Engine oil is NOT the place to try to save money.

dirleton

He's just trying (very hard) to pry some of your money loose. It's a slime-ball move but basically his job. Might be time for a different dealer.

mtiaz

I'm sure that 0W-20 is synthetic & that's what the manual states like the user has stated above...

I agree its not a place to be trying to save money, especially when the vehicle requires it. My TL-S uses conventional because I don't drive too much and change out the oil every 5-6 months anyways & the manual states that conventional is okay in the vehicle. My RDX on the other-hand has always been changed with synthetic 0W-20 as stated by the manual.

I believe if you do not change your oil with synthetic in the RDX you may also run into problems with your warranty.

Oil is cheap, a new engine isn't

dirleton

I believe the recommended oil is a synthetic blend. What the dealer is pushing is, apparently, full synthetic. There's a difference. I don't believe you can go wrong using what Acura recommends.

ceb

The manual does not "mandate" synthetic oil - the dealer tried to make a boat payment by charging an extra $30 for the same swill.

Most dealers have the oil in big tanks that meter out the correct amount of oil. In most cases you get that oil regardless of what you pay for.

dirleton

I suppose they could have two "big tanks", one with blend and the other with full synthetic. You could always ask the dealer. You could also ask your foot.

snorf

The Honda dealer used 0-20 synthetic blend when I had mine done.

Kaputnik

I suspect either type is OK if they meet specs. The 1st Gen requires synthetic oil and that point is made very clear both in the manual and with warning labels in the engine compartment.

ceb

And no, you won't run into warranty issues as long as you use the recommended oil - or have your oil changed at the dealership with whatever they pour in.

This is one reason why I've recommended getting prepaid maintenance if using the dealer - no arguing about what to do.

Comfy

Ha ha...that was funny.

2014RDX

As I have never seen conventional 0W-20, only a blend or full synthetic, the dealer might have been correct (though not good in his explanation). Your coupon probably stated conventional oil change only.

dirleton

Bait and switch coupon. A new twist on a time honored dealer ploy.

sktn77a

Depends on your oil change interval. No need for synthetic with a 5000 mile interval but if you're going 10000, you should be using full synthetic.

Can't fathom the concept of "synthetic blend" oils (???)

RDX10

I always wondered about this synthetic blend stuff. It doesn't really make sense to me. The assumption here is that 100% of the synthetic oil in the blend won't be broken down, and that 100% of the regular oil will. So therefore you can get an oil change interval in between the synthetic and regular for a price also inbetween. But does it really work like that in real life?

markAZ

You can also question 'full synthetics'. Some are made from fossil oil stocks...I think Mobil 1 is. Are they really 'synthetic'? Kind of like 'natural' foods. All depends on your definition.

RDX10

Ah! "Natural"! My favorite word used on 90% of food packages, yet only 3% of food is really natural. Lol

snorf

Arsenic and cyanide are natural, but I wouldn't recommend you eating them. I'm amazed at the minimal progress we've made with synthetic oils. Hitler fought the last two years of WWII using synthetic fuels.

dirleton

And how'd that work out for him?

romer

My dealership says the current RDX uses the synthetic blend, and, Acura does not recommend full synthetic for the current RDX until it becomes a higher mileage vehicle if the owner chooses to use full synthetic. It has to do with pistons, etc. seating properly. While some cars in the Acura line up use full synthetic oil, the RDX does not.

snorf

It actually worked out quite well for him. (Not listening to his generals didn't work out so well, though.) I don't think we could fight a war for two years on synthetic fuels alone today. I guess because oil was so cheap at that time that there was no real incentive to continue making the synthetics.

bradntx

Designations like synthetic and synthetic blend no longer mean what they used to years ago. Originally synthetic was an oil that was basically chemically "built" in a lab. Think old school synthetic Mobil 1. Well Penzoil came along and started selling what they labeled as synthetic but was really just regular old oil that came out of the ground but was refined further than "traditional" oil. Mobil sued them saying their product wasn't truly synthetic. Mobil lost. Mobil realized that there was no value in continuing to create their own synthetic and went to a similar process and Penziol. Now days pretty much everything you buy in a store and is labeled full synthetic is this further refined "natural" oil that came out of the ground.

There are a few full synthetics out there but you have to really do your research, Amsoil I believe is one of the few with a true full synthetic.

Here is the question you should ask. If a J35 based engine can go 200k miles on the current "blends" is it really worth that 50%-100% premium?

Oah and for the record if you look at the specs for the J35 in our RDX and the J35 in the current Accord you won't find any differences.

/flame suit on

ceb

and the problem with amSOIL is that they never bothered to have it tested so you have to take their word for it that it meets ANY specs.

Accordingly, if you use amSOIL and you have a lubrication related issue and the manufacturer asks you to show the maintenance records then you can kiss a warranty repair goodbye.

amSOIL can give you all sorts of guarantees because the dealership never needs to show that the oil caused the problem - just that you didn't use the oils, fluids and parts that meet specs. Then it is up to you to show that amSOIL meets the specs - and you can't do that.

snorf

I thought the current accord engine was more advanced with direct inject, but used 87 octane.

bradntx

Oah I won't contest any of that, I stick to the cheapest Mobil 1 I can find at Wal-Mart that meets the requirements stated in the manual. I can usually get 5 quarts for anywhere from $23-$25. I just wanted to point out the BS behind the current "full Synthetic" vs "synthetic blend" argument.

bradntx

You are thinking about the current 4 cylinder in the Accord. The J35 in the 9th gen Accord is SFI with Variable Cylinder Management same as the RDX. I drive one every day.

ceb

You're absolutely right, the fine line between synthetic and blend is pretty blurred.

hand-filer

You're a little behind the times. Amsoil has a number of formulations that are API licensed.

ceb

Can you please point me to that please. Looking at the spec sheet for their 0w20 it still says "recommended for" and lists what specs it will replace but I see nothing that actually says that it has been tested to meet the specs.

dbarnhart

From the FAQ on the Amsoil website:

"If all AMSOIL motor oils were API licensed, the company could not source new raw materials from multiple suppliers, which would greatly increase the threat of supply disruption and the likelihood of extraordinarily high prices. To solve this problem, the API must establish base stock interchange guidelines for synthetic base stocks just as they have for other base stocks, as well as develop interchange guidelines for other components too. Furthermore, licensing formulas limits the ability to quickly adopt new technologies as they are discovered; each variation from the originally licensed formula requires re-submission for complete engine testing (see the Ask AMSOIL entry above for more information)."

I was also unable to discern an API Certification Seal in any of the product photos on the Amsoil website.

ceb

amSOIL has carefully crafted their advertising to give the impression that their oils meet specs but to date we have to take their word for it.


While car manufacturers cannot legally (in the US at least) require you to use a certain brand of replacement part or fluid, they can certainly set the specs that the part or fluid needs to meet in order to keep your warranty intact.


If you have an electrical failure after changing light bulbs, then the manufacturer needs to show that the replacement Osram bulb (instead of the OE Bosch) caused the failure, but with maintenance, the manufacturer merely needs to show that you didn't use fluids or parts that met the required specs. Accordingly, the manufacturer just needs to say "the oil you used doesn't meet API specs" and you're dead in the water.


The amSOIL warranty is equally worthless as it will pay only when the manufacturer has proven that the amSOIL oil was the cause of the failure. As I've shown above, the manufacturer never needs to do that to deny warranty repairs.


amSOIL is very creative with their marketing, saying things like "AMSOIL, the leader in automotive synthetic lubrication, produced the world's first API-qualified synthetic motor oil in 1972" to give the impression that it has been tested to meet those specs but "qualified" and "tested and meets" are two different things.


amSOIL and Royal Poopie may be fine oils, but we'll never know because they haven't been tested. While lubrication related problems on modern cars are rare if you follow the oil change interval, why take the chance and use expensive boutique oils that bring no benefit and may cause you headaches?

hand-filer

The OE and XL series oils 0W-20 through 10W-30 are API certified (licensed). The API certification label is clearly indicated on the bottles. You can't fake that shit in litigious corporate America.

strykme

Was this Paragon Acura?
I had the same experience there for the first Oil change on 2013 RDX. He practically forced me to get synthetic or I would lose warranty.
Next time I was out on Long Island and did oil change at SmithTown Acura and spoke to them about it, they told me that for about $40 difference they do not do such s@*$t to the customers. Was the best ever visit to the dealership.
For the next oil change, I could not make it to the Smithtown, went back to Paragon with the owner's manual in hand, but I had a different advisor who did not even blink about the regular oil...
depends on the advisor, but paragon Acura in queens is something else...

ceb

hmmmm

Mr Marco

It's all a bunch of Bullshit. Oil is oil, period. The differences in weight and synthetic vs conventional are negligible to nill. The real reason you should run the synthetic is because the MID is set up for a long oil change interval. If you run a blend or conventional oil you need to change it sooner than what the computer algorithm is set for. The biggest exception would be for something like putting 5w20 conventional in your M3 which was designed to run a 10W60 synthetic. Now we'd be talking about running into some wear issues.

If I was running conventional I would change it every 3K.
Blend, every 5K
Synthetic 7.5K

I run full synthetic in my truck, but change it every 5K just because it's easier to remember that interval on the ODO.

Mr Marco

I guess I should clarify that^ post or some smart-ass will chime in with a bunch of specs from Penzoil's website.

You can use any oil approved for use in Automobiles here in the USA/Canada. Don't buy the cheap shit from Wortmart. It often does not contain the detergents or meet the nesssesary requirements for a modern automobile engine.

Mr Marco

Oh and just because it says 5w20 doesn't mean it can't operate as a 1W20. 5w20 means that it tested lower than 5.

pilozm

Yes, Paragon Acura. #1 scammers, in my opinion.

NormRDX

Actually the lawsuit was between Mobil and Castrol....


Norm