I would agree, except that Acura had yet to hit another one the park per-say like they did with the 2004-2008 TL.

Hyundai is new to the luxury market while Acura has been around. (almost 20years). Hyundai/Kia will probably do in 10 years what Acura had and losing in 20 year.

Sorry, but bell and whistles sells. Many of those bells and whistles are in all but the Hyundai Accent. No Ford fan but the Focus ST (although very uncomfortable seats) will blow the doors off anything Honda currently sells to the market in the US.

Look no farther than Chrysler for that. Not a fan of their Jeep devision, but will have to admit they are building some nice "eye candy". Acura has yet to take their models to the next level. The new ILX and overpriced (next gen)RLs' are not exactly going to have Acuras' flying off the lots either.

Sales matter. It"s the main reason Honda revamped the popular Civic after one year of the new generation. Sales

Long story short. The Santa Fe and 2014 Sorento are out to kick butt. (both are sold world wide, Acuras aren't)

 

Of course sales matter but profits matter more. If a lot of sales equated to the best vehicle than the Camry would be the best best vehicle out there and I think we can all agree that is not the case. Like I said, if all one cares about is bells and whistles rather than what holds up, drives right and has great resale value than have at it. Hyundais, right now, are a good value in the mainstream market, not at or even approaching luxury class. You can put cheap leather and a few extra electronic doo-dads in a car for dirt cheap and people will flock to it. They are deluding themselves that because their car looks a little flashy and has flashy stuff that the car is just as good as an Acura for $5k to $10K less. Sorry, but you get what you pay for the most part.

Now, after having said that, the luxury brand of Hyundai, Eqqus and Genesis are a different story. They are in the luxury field but will be held back by the fact that they are sold out of regular Hyundai dealers. There is valid reason that Acura, Infiniti, Porsche, Lexus, Audi etc are not sold out of their respective mainstream dealerships.

I've said this before but I don't understand why many Hyundai fans want to say that the Santa Fe and other Hyundai mainstream models are luxury or "near luxury" or premium vehicles. They simply are not. You can go to any auto show and sit in a luxury car and then go sit in Hyundai or a Kia and immediately see and feel the differnce even without driving it.

Again, look at resale values percentages as they will tell you a lot of how a car is made and how it holds up and how many people are willing to invest money in it.

I am not bad mouthing Hyundai. They are a very good value and have made great strides and are very competitive against Ford, Toyota, Honda and Chevy etc competitors. But they are not in the class of luxury vehicles and I don't think even Hyundai tries to insinuate they are luxury class, just some of the people that buy them do. To me it's almost like someone wearing knockoff clothing, might make you feel better for awhile but down deep you know they are fake.

 

^^What he said.

 

• I will not attempt to compare from the Sonata down or even the Sanfe Fe to Acura. We can agree on those points. Azera, Genesis and Equus. Yes to all three.
  
• Acura, & Infiniti, has loss market share even though most would consider those to be near luxury/luxury models. The market determines whether or not a vehicle will stay a part of the product line. Infinti has dropped or reposition most of their lineup. Acura is following suit by the ILX being the start of the model lines going a different direction due to again market share. I own an Acura so you don't have to sell me on resale value. (That of course applies to low mileage Acuras. They are not Accords or civics where mileage really doesnt matter)
  
• Resale value is a way for us to look through rose colored glasses and say our cars are more than they are. They are not. New marketing by all including Honda has allowed people to go buy new and get many of the bells and whistles that used to be only found in (Mecedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus and mostly Acura) This use to support the resale market it doesn't as much. People now trading an Acura are having to compete with very low mileage (normally 30K over three years) leased vehicles which keeps resale value on certain cars looking artificially high. Nowaday, three years old vehicles don't appeal to people like they used too when they can go by new in some cases cheaper with the latest and greatest available options.
  
• Yes Equus and Genesis are sold in other parts of the world unlike again Acura. They are excepted for what they are, luxury valued cars. Next generation of both w/awd will moved them further up on the world stage.

I'm an Acura owner who lives in the real world of auto buying. Apparently others are also by judging Acura sales numbers. (MDX would be the exception)

You spoke of the Equus and Genesis being sold at the same dealer as the Accent. While the Genesis is the Equus is not. Its delivered to your home.

GM manages very well with selling Cadillac and Chevy under the same roof at some of their dealers. It makes cents.

I get my Acura serviced at the Honda dealer now because it's closer. No issues what so ever. I refuse to drive 45 miles where I can drive 5 and get the same work done. All work is done at the local dealer including oil and tire rotations. Very happy with my local Honda dealer.

 

And when they pick it up to be serviced, where do they take it?

 

Azera is a competitor to the Avalon, Taurus and new Impala. Not the RXL, M37, 5 Series etc. So it is not luxury, it is a Hyundai mainstream full sized sedan. Again, just because it's got some neat stuff doesnt make it luxury. Boy, these bells and whistles really have you turned on. Are you made because the RDX doesn't have little lights in the side mirror telling you when it's safe to change lanes? I know how important that is to some people that can't adjust their mirrors.

Gee, where do you have your Eqqus serviced? Do you buy it online from Ebay? It's sold and serviced at your local Hyundai dealer. In the Chicago area I know of no Cadillac and Chevy dealers that have combined dealerships. I suppose there may be a couple that are on the same property next door to each other but they have completely seperate buildings with seperate showrooms, sales and management and backshops. I think where I grew up in Michigan there may have been a few in the very small towns but that was a long time ago. I think GM has agreements with their dealers not to have them in the same showroom but I'm positive on that one.

Totally disagree on resale values. I understand why someone that is apparently in love with Hyundai doesn't like to recognise resale value as one of the big factors in how much a car costs over ownership but it does. The people that are willing to pay the high resale values are the ones that matter to me. If they are looking through "rose colored glasses" that is just more money in my pocket.

I don't know if you have ever owned a Hyundai. If not, you should probably get one and then let us know how you like the experience after awhile. Acura and Infiniti are doing just fine. They may have lost some market share due mostly to design issues but I believe that will change. Markets share in the luxury business changes. Look at Audi and the huge strides they have made in the last ten years. Before that they were the laughing stock of unintended acceleration and had very little market share.

Look at Hyundai, they were the butt of jokes for years but they also have made great strides in the last ten years. I put them on par with Chevy and Dodge at the moment. When they feel they can drop the huge warranty and be in line with the rest of the market will tell me they have arrived at the same level. They don't offer that warranty out of the goodness of their heart. They have to have it to attract buyers. That's the first word I hear out of the mouths of people that have them...."wow, I love the warranty". Other brand buyers are saying..."wow, I love the car".

I have no real love or zeal for Acura as this as the RDX is my first Honda product that I've even owned of about 40 different vehicles. It's nice, certainly not perfect, and Acura has it's work cut out for it to recapture some the enthusiasm it's lost. But like I said, I think they'll turn it around. If you want to just continiously bash Acura and Infiniti that is up to you.

 

Where do you get this from? Mileage impacts the value of every car, model and brand. You telling me this universal law some how skips Accords and Civics? Really!

 

And Acura TL. The RDL barely makes into the other group only because its AWD. So I see you are still caught up on price and not car. Yes I would the Genesis with the M37 for sure. 5 series, current Genesis No; only because of not having AWD. I agree on your take with the Azera. The new generation Impala will be selling north of 40k loaded w/V6.


(Several not all) of the dealers has there Cadillac and Chevy on the same lot and in the same adjorning building in several of the surrounding cities around Houston. They also share the same service. The only difference is you will get a Cadillac loaner for owning a Cadillac. Chevy loaner for a Chevy.

Honda Accord and Civic stands out in the resale markets above all others, especailly when it comes to mileage. Luxury under 50K miles do have high resale value. Luxury car at a 100k miles are in the same boat with any other car, unless it's a rare car. Lots of miles are put on cars in the south. We dont have the luxury of a subway in the Houston area. Railcars are in their infancy in the Houston area. Most people drive on avg of 50 miles round trip per day


I've owned 4. very bad from back in the 90's and 1 Genesis 93k miles, no issues except for over inflated tire when we first bought it.

Hyundai is far ahead of Chevy and even farther ahead of Dodge.


Not bash either. I'm on my second TL. Both of these were the bell of the ball 5-10 years ago. Not anymore. They are however great cars. They are just not above the Genesis or the Equus.



The car is taken back to the Hyundai dealer. Hyundai is doing more of a test run here in the states with the Equus. Any money here is straight gravy. People are having some issues with getting a Genesis if they are taking there car in and needing a loaner. I'm hearing the Azera is being used as a loaner instead.

This happened sometimes when I used to bring my TL and needed a loaner. I would end up with a TSX instead. Its first come first serve at my old dealer.

 

I will just jump in again to say that the 2012 Sorrento SX, as compared to the 2008 RDX, was not a step down in quality. both have similar upscale and cost-saving aspects. if anything, i think the Sorrento was a step up, particularly given that it is a "size class" larger than the RDX, and is quieter. The only thing i miss from the RDX was the SH-AWD, and thats gone from the new ones anyway.

Again, the current RDX would probably outclass the Sorrento, but it is now more expensive and was released 2.5 years later than the Sorrento.

 

Quite honestly I looked at the SFS and it's a nice car, but ride, road noise, speed, and overall "quality" of the car were not up to RDX standards.

It did have nicer tech toys by a mile, but I'd rather have the reliability.

My BIL works for a company that does risk assessment and value for older cars -- says RDX will make up that 6k in price difference after year 5.

 

Drove the SFS and it was terrible. No steering feel at all and HUGE dead spot on center. Also louder than the RDX inside. Tech was nice on it as well as the rear reclining seats and rear A/C vents as well as the huge trunk, but the dealer here didn't have a Tech version for us to try out. Also the car just felt very cheaply put together (I swear you can push the fog light out of the car with a finger).

In the end it was CX5, SFS, or RDX and the RDX gave us a better deal than the other 2. The other two were cheaper, but RDX as a package was better for our needs.

 

This. I had the same experience. Lots of wizbang Tech crammed into the SFS, but the ride was just really mushy and engine felt unresponsive. Hyundai needs to learn how to make a turbo 4 that responds like the Audi Q5 (which has 50 less HP, but feels soooo much better).

 

Yea, the SFS was definitely not so "sporty" when you consider it has a 9+ second speed in the 0-60 category whereas the RDX has close to 6 seconds.

It's an unbelievable difference. It's almost as if the SFS was a standard I4 with no turbo. Shoot, I bet the TSX wagon is faster.

 

hmmm. Pickup. Looks like we both had a different driving experience. The H/K turbo pickup just fine.

People complain about electric steering in all cars. BMW now has it and people are not happy about it. If Honda doesn't have it they soon will.

Its funny you mentioned the "wizbang tech"; MB, BMW, and Audi said the same thing about Acura and Infiniti back in 04. The Asian cars had and the German didn't at that price point.


The line of Luxury is blurred. I would have told you the same thing 4 years back, until H/K simply done what Infiniti and Acura done years back. Pact their car with feature at a cheaper price. Now everyone is doing it. Its the main reason Acura and Infiniti's are not selling like they were. Korean simply picked up where the Japanese left off.

Sad thing about luxury cars that are not luxury are for the most part one trick ponys. Why buy a used them used when you can get a new H/K or many others new for the same price these days.

You also have to remember that many more Acura and or Infiniti are leased than bought. Used car lots are getting these back with 30k miles back after three years vs. a purchase car. It doesn't take a scienctist to figure out which car will have a higher resale value.

40K + cars tend to get leased normally more the <40k vehicles. The except would be trucks and some larger SUVs.

You car beat those drums till the cows come home but H/K with the SF and Sorento have a winner on their hands. I say the same for the GM pair (Equinox/Terrain) especially when equipped with a 6 cylinder. Add Ford and Chrysler along with Jeep to the Mix. Done take my word, look at their sales numbers compared to Acura and Infiniti now being on life support.

Done worry, Buick will be joining Acura/Infiniti as they have went crazy on pricing their cars/suv's also.

 

I didn't find the engine that lacking. I actually think that the Santa Fe is a great value but the steering was just horrible. RDX is the first car that I have with electric steering and it's not bad. Not much feedback but pretty precise. The SFS was just plain bad. I was driving straight, swaying the steering wheel about 2 degrees to either side of center and the car was DEAD STRAIGHT, no sway at all. Once you get past the 2 degrees then it would start responding. Also cabin noise was just no good.

If I were on a tighter budget then the SFS would have made my short list with the CX-5. After driving the RDX and Q5 (way over my budget for same amenities) we decided that the RDX was worth the extra $ for us.

 

Driving the RDX now each day makes me happy I did NOT take that Hyundai. The driving experience is so different.

 

We had it narrowed down to the SFS 2.0, the CX5 and the RDX. We wanted to lease for 4 years. The residual was very attractive on the RDX. In fact the lease payments were not that much higher than the SFS. The CX5 just didn't have enough HP for us. And the SFS felt jerky and the turbo lag was annoying. If you want to buy it outright or finance it over 84 months maybe it make a bigger difference but on a 48 month lease I figure we will come out ahead with a higher end vehicle for not much more a month.

 

Smart move to lease. You should however shorten that timeframe to 30 or 36 mos. max.

 

You should also test drive the Sorrento before making your decision.

 

Normally I would have too but the RDX has a 4 year bumper to bumper warranty on the RDX and the rate and residual made it so 48 months was best for us.

 

I've never leased but I always wondered why more people don't do 4 year leases especially on a car like you mentioned with a 4yr btb warranty. Most of the depreciation hit is really the first two years so it would seem that the residual wouldn't be hit that much with the extra year and the payments would be more reasonable. Plus, changing cars every 4 years is still plenty quick for me as I usually hang onto them for about 6-9yrs if I like them and most of my last several vehicles were likeable.

 

^^^ That is what I do too. By doing a 4 year lease, it keeps the payment lower and after 2.5-3 years, I will get the keys to my new Acura and do the same. Sure, in order for me to get out of the lease early with no penalty hinges on me getting another Acura which has never been an issue for now. If the TLX is a hot vehicle, I'll be getting out of my TL next spring otherwise, I will either wait for another year and carry my lease to the end of try and find someone to buy my TL

 

How about the Ford Escape? Edge is pretty big.

Sounds to me like a well loved and clean, certified used Acura 2010-2012 RDX SH-AWD tech package is in your future. Haggle a dealer down and get it for a steal. I love the way they drive (closer to the RSX than the new RDX for sure) and it is a much more capable ski-lodge-mountain-pass vehicle for you needs.

We came close, but the changes to the 2013 that have been mentioned in every review were all pretty important to us (less NVH, MPG, tech, legroom in back, etc...)

 

Not sure about the US but here in Canada the residual value of the SanteFe is very low. For example the Sante Fe sport fully loaded with Nav I can lease all in with taxes and freight on a 48 month lease 0 down at 1.79% for $613.23. The RDX AWD tech all in on a 48 month lease at 3.9% 0 down is 641.17. A difference of $27.94 or $1,341.12 over 48 months. You can verify on the build it site for acura.ca and hyundaicanada.ca

The difference is the residual. The purchase price of the RDX AWD tech in Canada is $46,472 all in. The Sante Fe is $40,555. A difference of $5,917. Yet over the lease its $1,341. The Sante Fe drops so much in value over the 48 months it almost eats up the initial savings. Is Hyundai setting the residual or the market?

That in my mind is the difference between luxury vehicle and others. Yes you can save $5,000-6000 if you buy it in cash, but if you want to lease the vehicle or keep it do you really save in the end?

The value of the Acura brand closes the gap very quickly may surpass the initial savings of the Sante Fe after 5 years. And then there is the cost of repairs. The Honda engine, transmission and suspension versus the Hyundai. Which will cost more after the warranty period?

Until Hyundai value in both residual and after market sales comes up, there is not a big enough price savings for me to look at Hyundai despite all the new bells and whistles.

Same with the Escape. The value proposition was better with the Mazda CX5 but than the engine was just to underpowered for us. The V6 and the high residual and resale value just make the RDX the overall winner hands down.

 

This is what my BIL told me (he does these analysis for insurance purposes). The other cars in this category like the Outback, Escape, SF, etc. are all 4-6k less but after 4-5 years the residual loss makes the RDX actually come out on top. Even more so after 7-8 years the RDX will actually be worth more.

 

Again lease vehicle tend to have lower mileage thus keeping a higher residual value

Most Outback, Escape, SF, will be purchased vs leasing. Now if Hyundai continues its price creep upward then that may change.

I would lease a FWD MDX vs RDX. (FWD is enough in Houston area)
I noiced Acura is lowering the price on the 2014 MDX. Great move to get more on the highway instead of on the lots. They should do the same with the RDX.

 

I bought my RDX at JEA off I-10 and got the FWD Tech. I really wish I could afford the MDX but even base MDX was 5k more after negotiating so this was about the most I would spend anyway.

Shoot, I remember when my fully loaded 04 TL was $34k, lol. Now that's easily 10k more but yea you do get more with the car.

Anyway, I wish that I could have scored a 2013 RDX because they were selling for much less than my 2014 was simply because dealers were trying to lose them from the lot.

 

interesting discussion. I was on Edmunds and did a quik compare of the 2014 models. On paper the Hyundai looks great. I own a 2005 Santa Fe. At the time it was the best car for me based on my budget. The warranty while advertised for 100k is really 65k bumper to bumper. The engine is warrantied for 100k.

I find my old Santa Fe lacking comfort.

On paper the (Edmunds) the new Santa Fe Sport compares very well to the RDX. Fully loaded with Nav is only a few grand less than the RDX. For 3k it is probably better to buy the RDX.

I wish Hyundai would come out with a luxuy name plate since the Azera, Genesism and Equus are luxury type vehicles but a luxury buyer is not looking to buy a car that is next to a sub 20k accent in the show room.

 

On paper they look great. Try living with one for an extended period of time. The extra bells and whistles will be overshadowed by the substandard performance, fuel economy and questionable reliability and workmanship.

 

I am currently cross-shopping the '14 RDX and the '14 Santa Fe Sport. After many hours of reading reviews and spending time on forums, this is what I see as the advantages of each:

SFS Pros:
- A lot of features not found in RDX: ventilated seats, rear sunshades, rear parking sensors, blind spot monitor, heated steering wheel, heated rear seats, LED tail lights, 8" navi screen, panoramic sunroof
- bigger back seat that slides and reclines (nice for us as we need to fit in an infant seat)
- 35% larger cargo volume than RDX (again, good for baby gear)
- cheaper price
- takes regular gas
- better warranty
- better looking vehicle (obviously this is subjective)

RDX Pros:
- V6 engine
- better gas mileage
- smoother ride
- better resale value
- better reliability
- luxury cachet

We haven't done any test drives yet but will do that over the next few months.

By the way, someone keeps mentioning the 9.1 0-60 time for the SFS. That must have been an outlier because every other professional review is reporting a faster time (not as fast as RDX though).

 

Consumer Reports data for 0-60:
Santa Fe GLS (v6): 7.6s
Santa Fe Sport (4-cyl): 9.7s

MotorTrend 0-60 for SFS is 9.1s
CarAndDriver 0-60 for SFS is 8.6s

And as far as RDX vs SFS, go drive them back-to-back. They are a totally different experience.

 

When I got my Santa Fe in 2005 (the RDX didn't exist yet) the main reason was the amount of standard features that were options with Nissan, Honda, and Toyota SUVs along with a lower price. I was able to get the top of the line GLS for a price that was less than the others.

As far as the warranty goes, I was never offered an extended warranty and things started to break down after the 5 year 65k warranty ran out. One issue was with the air bags on the drivers side that is related to seat belts. My parents had a similar issue with their Honda Accord. Honda replaced it no questions asked stating it was a safety issue and covered for the life of the vehicle. Hyundai refused and wanted to charge me $1500 because they said my car had surpassed the warranty. ($1500 includes replacing the faulty computer that controls the air bag)

Personally I am not buying another Hyundai (although I enjoyed the Sonata a lot when I had it as a work rental a couple of years ago). The issue with the air bag showed me they were looking to nickle and dime customers. It is 8 years later so maybe these prior issues will not happen again. Just be careful with Hyundai since items like a rear camera, blind spot monitor, or parking assist can break since they are newer features.If they break 5 years and 1 day after your purchase or on the 65,001 mile then you are SOL for warranty coverage. Also, take into consideration maintenance costs since many of the luxury brands offer free oil changes for a couple of years (I know BMW and Audi offer this).

 

We have a baby on the way and yes the Santa Fe has more rear room and bigger trunk, but everything seems to be able to fit in the RDX just fine.

My wife is not a car person and as much as she liked the room in the back of the Santa Fe, she just was not sold on the build quality of the car as well as how it drove. The price difference was not all that much and we decided to spend a little more for a much better build (in our eyes) car. Push on the fog lights of a Santa Fe and just see how much give it has! CX-5 has a very annoying side mirror rattle and a VERY laggy nav. They both have noticeably higher road noise.

PS. the Santa Fe will feel every bit as slow as the 8-9 second 0-60 time. Same can be said for the CX-5 2.0. 2.5 is a little better, but the RDX is just effortless if you need to get up and go.

 

Before my 2014 RDX I had a 2003 Santa Fe LX AWD...I purchased new. I had it dealer maintained and it ran perfect when I got rid of it at 128,000 miles for the Acura. I seriously considered a 2013 2.0T. My wife has a 2007 RL and the only time I drive it is to take it to the dealer for mx. So the reason I purchased the RDX besides I liked the way it looks and drive is that I am totally impressed with the mx department and service.

 

I tried the Sante Fe and didn't like it. To be honest, Hyundai still doesn't have it. The quality of the steel is not there. Longterm they are not the same as Acuras or hondas.

 

I was in the same boat looking at an RDX and and SFS. I really wanted to like the SFS because it seemed like a lot of bang for the buck. I liked it the first time I drove it. BUT Unfortunately driving it back to back with the RDX and I really didn't find much I liked. Engine noise, road noise, excessive wind noise and general cheap fealing throughout.

 

Nice features, nice styling, nice ratings on paper...then you drive and remember "ohhh, that's why" with most Hyundai/Kia vehicles. I really like their styling and features, but the level of engineering/refinement you feel right away just is not there, even down to basics such as steering feel or solidity. This is their next challenge on the market. Non-car people are okay with it, others, such as those of us used to Honda/Acura products and the way they feel/perform and run see it right away.

Nice to look, but no cigar to drive.

 

Pretty Good Review of the Santa Fe Sport

 

I agree. Once I drove the RDX my enthusiasm for the SFS evaporated. My question with any luxury marque is whether the extra cost is returned in performance not just creature comforts. The RDX easily justified its higher price against the fully-loaded Santa Fe but less so with the Subaru Forester.

If deciding between the Hyundai Santa Fe and the Subaru choosing the Forester is a no brainer IMO. I am currently cross shopping an RDX and a Forester and would be happy with either vehicle but for different reasons.

 

The Forrester won the Motor Trend SUV of the year. It also won the The Car Connection best car to buy 2014. I am not sold on the apearance and lines of the Subaru but the automotive press loves it.