American Honda - Poor Client Support (I got Screwed)
07-30-2004, 06:09 PM
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American Honda - Poor Client Support (I got Screwed)
Hi all,
Here's my situation and would appreciate some opinions....
I have a 2001 3.2 CL-S. My original tranny went out in late 2002 at 60,000 miles. This was before the warranty extension program and Acura goodwilled the repair. I was very happy.
Now, at 101,600 miles my 2nd tranny blew - 41,000 since the replacement and three weeks over the 100k mark. So, "knowing" that Acura would support me, I took the car to my dealer. The dealer calls back and tells me that Acura will cover the parts but not the labor ($640). What is that, they accept partial responsibility only? Well, not to seem ungrateful, but this totally upset me. The dealer would not go to bat for me and said "take it up with Honda." So, I did. I called them and wrote a letter (below).
I got a call back today from Honda telling me that the decision that the district supervisor made previously was final. It seems that Acura's use for client relations is simply to reiterate, not question, the decision of their managers - completely useless puppets. I was told that there is no way to escalate this matter and that it was now officially closed. I am not happy.
As a little aside, the owner of my dealer called me two days ago since I sent the letter to him as well. He was very apologetic and said he would take it up himself with Acura directly. He, at least, was the first one to have some empathy. I'll let everyone know how this route goes.
I used to trust Acura and their products. Now I cannot trust them enough to do business with them again. I so wanted that 2005 TL 6MT and had plans for purchase in November. But, not any more. How can I trust them when they will not support an issue that is clearly an epidemic?
Finally, here's my question... Has anyone had similar experiences and does anyone have advice on how I can pursue "making this right"?
Thanks for the time everyone!
John
_________________
If anyone is interested, here is my letter to Acura - obviuosly, it was a complete waste of time:
To Whom It May Concern:
I own a 2001 Acura 3.2 CL Type S, purchased in September of 2001 – and, I am the former owner of a 1993 Integra GS-R. At approximately 60,000 miles (October 2002) the transmission failed for the first time. This was prior to the warranty extension program now offered, but I was extremely pleased when the Acura dealership (Valencia Acura) was able to “goodwill” the repair. Needless to say, the fact that the transmission went out at only 60,000 miles was disturbing, but the service response was wonderful.
Unfortunately, my vehicle has now begun experiencing the same issue with gear slipping and erratic shifting. So, on July 22, 2004, I took the car back to Valencia Acura for repair. The odometer now reads about 101,610 miles, as I passed the 100,000 mile mark only 3 weeks ago. The service writer (Robin) pointed out that the extended transmission warranty ended at 100,000 miles but said he would do what he could to goodwill the repair. On July 23, 2004, I received a call from Robin stating that the service manager (David) spoke with the district supervisor and Acura was only willing to replace the part for free but not include the service – a price of $640 for 8 hours of labor. Although I was thankful for the savings in parts costs, this was an upsetting turn of events. I explained my position to the service manager, David:
My transmission went out at 60,000 miles and then again only 41,000 miles later. There is no way that a quality vehicle should experience this failure in this short of a time period. Additionally, because the current transmission has lasted for such a short duration and the mileage is so close to the warranty coverage allotment, Acura should make a concession in this case and cover the labor in a show of good faith to a repeat client. Furthermore, in researching the issue, I have uncovered multiple individuals who have the same problems – some of whom are on their 4th transmission!
David’s reply was completely without concern for my situation. To paraphrase, I was told that what they offered was Acura’s decision and since they pay the bills, there is nothing the he could do. When asked if he thought that a transmission should be this unreliable, the reply was that it sometimes happens. When asked if he would re-contact the district supervisor to discuss the possibility of goodwilling the labor, he refused. I was told to contact Acura to complain if I wanted anything further. Feeling as I need my car back, I authorized the repair so that the part could be ordered.
After doing some research, I discovered that Acura will reimburse the dealership 5.8 hours for the warranty repair of this issue. Since I believe that Acura sets these times as a fair and reasonable period for performing the particular job, I contacted Robin at Valencia Acura with a request: since this should be a warranty situation (in my opinion), would the dealership be at least willing to match that time as a courtesy? Robin checked with the service manager and the answer was, “No.” When asked why, I was told that 5.8 hours is unreasonable and Acura forces that time on them. I was also told that since they have such high quality standards, the job will take at least 8 hours and there is no way they could do anything else. When hearing this, I began to wonder about the “real” reason that this dealership would not fight to try to get the labor goodwilled for me. Could it be that they want the additional money that I will provide to them? Could it be that they are actually going to claim from Acura and then charge me as well? I am not saying that any of this is true, but the abrupt and inconsiderate treatment provided by David certainly does not show concern for the customer’s well being or desire to continue a relationship in future automobile purchases. With the 8 hours that is going to be put into repairing my car, will such “high quality standards” over and above those allowed by Acura’s warranty repair reimbursement, assure that the vehicle will have a reliable transmission? It certainly did not for the first repair. This dealership has renamed themselves to a “friendship.” If a friend treated me in the way that Valencia Acura does, we would not be friends for long. I understand that this is not their problem, that it results form a defect that Acura is battling. However, some empathy and aid in a time of great frustration would have been appreciated. The one exception to this situation was my service writer, Robin, who was always professional and understanding during this difficult experience.
Even if parts and labor costs for this issue are fully covered by Acura, the question remains, will my transmission go out again in 40,000, 30,000, or even 20,000 miles? I believe that there is a high probability of this as discovered in my personal investigations. If this is to happen, I know that Acura will not provide warranty coverage of this continuous issue. My plan was to keep the car to 150,000 miles. However, I do not feel that is an option now as I refuse to invest $5,000 to repair the problem when it happens again. This is clearly a defect in materials and workmanship that is being experienced by thousands of customers. Just last week I was planning the purchase of my next Acura within the year 2005, a 3.2 TL with manual transmission and navigation. I love this car! But, can I trust it to be reliable? Please help me to make the right decision.
At the very least, it is my feeling that Acura should honor my request for full reimbursement of costs to repair this vehicle. I would also appreciate if Acura would address their plans, if any, to support me if this problem continues in the future. Possible replacing my transmission with a new one instead of the rebuilt one forced on me would help.
Sincerely,
John Penny
cc: Don Fleming, General Manager, Valencia Acura
Here's my situation and would appreciate some opinions....
I have a 2001 3.2 CL-S. My original tranny went out in late 2002 at 60,000 miles. This was before the warranty extension program and Acura goodwilled the repair. I was very happy.
Now, at 101,600 miles my 2nd tranny blew - 41,000 since the replacement and three weeks over the 100k mark. So, "knowing" that Acura would support me, I took the car to my dealer. The dealer calls back and tells me that Acura will cover the parts but not the labor ($640). What is that, they accept partial responsibility only? Well, not to seem ungrateful, but this totally upset me. The dealer would not go to bat for me and said "take it up with Honda." So, I did. I called them and wrote a letter (below).
I got a call back today from Honda telling me that the decision that the district supervisor made previously was final. It seems that Acura's use for client relations is simply to reiterate, not question, the decision of their managers - completely useless puppets. I was told that there is no way to escalate this matter and that it was now officially closed. I am not happy.
As a little aside, the owner of my dealer called me two days ago since I sent the letter to him as well. He was very apologetic and said he would take it up himself with Acura directly. He, at least, was the first one to have some empathy. I'll let everyone know how this route goes.
I used to trust Acura and their products. Now I cannot trust them enough to do business with them again. I so wanted that 2005 TL 6MT and had plans for purchase in November. But, not any more. How can I trust them when they will not support an issue that is clearly an epidemic?
Finally, here's my question... Has anyone had similar experiences and does anyone have advice on how I can pursue "making this right"?
Thanks for the time everyone!
John
_________________
If anyone is interested, here is my letter to Acura - obviuosly, it was a complete waste of time:
To Whom It May Concern:
I own a 2001 Acura 3.2 CL Type S, purchased in September of 2001 – and, I am the former owner of a 1993 Integra GS-R. At approximately 60,000 miles (October 2002) the transmission failed for the first time. This was prior to the warranty extension program now offered, but I was extremely pleased when the Acura dealership (Valencia Acura) was able to “goodwill” the repair. Needless to say, the fact that the transmission went out at only 60,000 miles was disturbing, but the service response was wonderful.
Unfortunately, my vehicle has now begun experiencing the same issue with gear slipping and erratic shifting. So, on July 22, 2004, I took the car back to Valencia Acura for repair. The odometer now reads about 101,610 miles, as I passed the 100,000 mile mark only 3 weeks ago. The service writer (Robin) pointed out that the extended transmission warranty ended at 100,000 miles but said he would do what he could to goodwill the repair. On July 23, 2004, I received a call from Robin stating that the service manager (David) spoke with the district supervisor and Acura was only willing to replace the part for free but not include the service – a price of $640 for 8 hours of labor. Although I was thankful for the savings in parts costs, this was an upsetting turn of events. I explained my position to the service manager, David:
My transmission went out at 60,000 miles and then again only 41,000 miles later. There is no way that a quality vehicle should experience this failure in this short of a time period. Additionally, because the current transmission has lasted for such a short duration and the mileage is so close to the warranty coverage allotment, Acura should make a concession in this case and cover the labor in a show of good faith to a repeat client. Furthermore, in researching the issue, I have uncovered multiple individuals who have the same problems – some of whom are on their 4th transmission!
David’s reply was completely without concern for my situation. To paraphrase, I was told that what they offered was Acura’s decision and since they pay the bills, there is nothing the he could do. When asked if he thought that a transmission should be this unreliable, the reply was that it sometimes happens. When asked if he would re-contact the district supervisor to discuss the possibility of goodwilling the labor, he refused. I was told to contact Acura to complain if I wanted anything further. Feeling as I need my car back, I authorized the repair so that the part could be ordered.
After doing some research, I discovered that Acura will reimburse the dealership 5.8 hours for the warranty repair of this issue. Since I believe that Acura sets these times as a fair and reasonable period for performing the particular job, I contacted Robin at Valencia Acura with a request: since this should be a warranty situation (in my opinion), would the dealership be at least willing to match that time as a courtesy? Robin checked with the service manager and the answer was, “No.” When asked why, I was told that 5.8 hours is unreasonable and Acura forces that time on them. I was also told that since they have such high quality standards, the job will take at least 8 hours and there is no way they could do anything else. When hearing this, I began to wonder about the “real” reason that this dealership would not fight to try to get the labor goodwilled for me. Could it be that they want the additional money that I will provide to them? Could it be that they are actually going to claim from Acura and then charge me as well? I am not saying that any of this is true, but the abrupt and inconsiderate treatment provided by David certainly does not show concern for the customer’s well being or desire to continue a relationship in future automobile purchases. With the 8 hours that is going to be put into repairing my car, will such “high quality standards” over and above those allowed by Acura’s warranty repair reimbursement, assure that the vehicle will have a reliable transmission? It certainly did not for the first repair. This dealership has renamed themselves to a “friendship.” If a friend treated me in the way that Valencia Acura does, we would not be friends for long. I understand that this is not their problem, that it results form a defect that Acura is battling. However, some empathy and aid in a time of great frustration would have been appreciated. The one exception to this situation was my service writer, Robin, who was always professional and understanding during this difficult experience.
Even if parts and labor costs for this issue are fully covered by Acura, the question remains, will my transmission go out again in 40,000, 30,000, or even 20,000 miles? I believe that there is a high probability of this as discovered in my personal investigations. If this is to happen, I know that Acura will not provide warranty coverage of this continuous issue. My plan was to keep the car to 150,000 miles. However, I do not feel that is an option now as I refuse to invest $5,000 to repair the problem when it happens again. This is clearly a defect in materials and workmanship that is being experienced by thousands of customers. Just last week I was planning the purchase of my next Acura within the year 2005, a 3.2 TL with manual transmission and navigation. I love this car! But, can I trust it to be reliable? Please help me to make the right decision.
At the very least, it is my feeling that Acura should honor my request for full reimbursement of costs to repair this vehicle. I would also appreciate if Acura would address their plans, if any, to support me if this problem continues in the future. Possible replacing my transmission with a new one instead of the rebuilt one forced on me would help.
Sincerely,
John Penny
cc: Don Fleming, General Manager, Valencia Acura
08-01-2004, 10:12 PM
#2
From my experience .. Honda/Acura's 800 number is only good for making maintenance appointments .. other than that . .it is a complete waste of concrete, steel, copper and human flesh .. they are useless ... i sat on their 800 number just to ring up their bill ...
08-02-2004, 01:57 AM
#3
Then again, what car company's customer service actually works?
The structure of the system is nearly the same throughout the entire industry. Whether you buy a BMW or an Acura, you'll find yourself in similar settings, if not the same.
It clearly is obvious that the transmission suffers from bad engineering, perhaps subpar workmanship, but I think fronting the parts is a pretty darn good gesture. I think you should take the deal. I mean, if you bought a 120,000-dollar Mercedes, then yeah, they should pay every penny in such a case. But for a 30,000-dollar entry-lux car, past warranty (by however small amount of mileage that is)? Parts alone costs thousands of dollars.
However, I think there's another way to approach this. The recall that was recently issued does not concern mileage at all. It doesn't matter if you have 10 miles or 1,000,000 miles on the car. If the transmission (2nd gear) looks bad, then they may replace the entire unit. This would have nothing to do with the extended warranty, which means your mileage wouldn't matter at all. I think you should look into that scenario.
Good luck and I think you know as well as any of us do that you should ditch the car as soon as the new transmission is installed and get yourself a better, safer car.
The structure of the system is nearly the same throughout the entire industry. Whether you buy a BMW or an Acura, you'll find yourself in similar settings, if not the same.
It clearly is obvious that the transmission suffers from bad engineering, perhaps subpar workmanship, but I think fronting the parts is a pretty darn good gesture. I think you should take the deal. I mean, if you bought a 120,000-dollar Mercedes, then yeah, they should pay every penny in such a case. But for a 30,000-dollar entry-lux car, past warranty (by however small amount of mileage that is)? Parts alone costs thousands of dollars.
However, I think there's another way to approach this. The recall that was recently issued does not concern mileage at all. It doesn't matter if you have 10 miles or 1,000,000 miles on the car. If the transmission (2nd gear) looks bad, then they may replace the entire unit. This would have nothing to do with the extended warranty, which means your mileage wouldn't matter at all. I think you should look into that scenario.
Good luck and I think you know as well as any of us do that you should ditch the car as soon as the new transmission is installed and get yourself a better, safer car.
08-02-2004, 11:47 AM
#5
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you should at least try to take this issue up with the consumer complaints division of your state attorney general's office. you won't be the 1st and you certainly won't be the last to be stuck in this situation. you should send the above letter, plus your receipts from both repairs, plus the "extended warranty" letter from american honda. claim that american honda knows that this transmission contains numerous design defects. the admission of these defects is the reason for the extended warranty campaign.
if american honda didn't include your car in the original extended warranty campaign make it clear that american honda hasn't provided any proof that your transmission has a different design than those which are covered. the part numbers are the same. only the serial numbers are different. regardless of build dates the problem is in the design.
if american honda didn't include your car in the original extended warranty campaign make it clear that american honda hasn't provided any proof that your transmission has a different design than those which are covered. the part numbers are the same. only the serial numbers are different. regardless of build dates the problem is in the design.
08-02-2004, 12:48 PM
#6
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Since you are in California you can try this.
Our law firm has filed a lawsuit against American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
regarding defective automatic transmissions. The complaint alleges that
these transmission failures are a safety hazard because they can cause the
vehicles to downshift abruptly and without warning, at any speed, and cause
sudden deceleration, loss of power, wheel lock, loss of control, and collisions.
The vehicles involved, at this time, include 2000 through 2003 Acura 3.2 CL
(including Type S); 2000 through 2003 Acura 3.2 TL (including Type S); and
2000 through 2001 Honda Accord, Odyssey, and Prelude. We request that
anyone who has experienced these or other problems with an automatic
transmission in any of these vehicles, including but not limited to property
damage or personal injury, contact us with details of your experiences at
hondacomplaints@pkns.com
Our law firm has filed a lawsuit against American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
regarding defective automatic transmissions. The complaint alleges that
these transmission failures are a safety hazard because they can cause the
vehicles to downshift abruptly and without warning, at any speed, and cause
sudden deceleration, loss of power, wheel lock, loss of control, and collisions.
The vehicles involved, at this time, include 2000 through 2003 Acura 3.2 CL
(including Type S); 2000 through 2003 Acura 3.2 TL (including Type S); and
2000 through 2001 Honda Accord, Odyssey, and Prelude. We request that
anyone who has experienced these or other problems with an automatic
transmission in any of these vehicles, including but not limited to property
damage or personal injury, contact us with details of your experiences at
hondacomplaints@pkns.com
08-02-2004, 02:37 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by Draiden
I used to trust Acura and their products. Now I cannot trust them enough to do business with them again. I so wanted that 2005 TL 6MT and had plans for purchase in November. But, not any more. How can I trust them when they will not support an issue that is clearly an epidemic?
Glad to see people not giving them repeat business.
Acura.I just don't see how people stick with this car after 100K miles.
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08-02-2004, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Pure Adrenaline
However, I think there's another way to approach this. The recall that was recently issued does not concern mileage at all. It doesn't matter if you have 10 miles or 1,000,000 miles on the car. If the transmission (2nd gear) looks bad, then they may replace the entire unit. This would have nothing to do with the extended warranty, which means your mileage wouldn't matter at all. I think you should look into that scenario.
08-02-2004, 03:29 PM
#9
Find beauty in dissonance
Originally Posted by Rod
I just don't see how people stick with this car after 100K miles.
I don't plan to keep it. Unless the transmission is cheap to replace (ha-ha). I'd rather put the cost of replacing the transmission towards the purchase of a different car.
John, did they give you the price of part(s)? I'd remind Acura the transmission problem was not fixed correctly the 1st time, while under warranty. They should feel obligated to repair it correctly. Forget the transmission and assail Acura and the Dealer on their company morals, values, and customer satisfaction.
If the dealer fixed it under warranty, I doubt Acura pays them $640. Have you tried a different dealer? I may only take a phone call to a competitor.
10-26-2004, 11:00 AM
#10
04 TL 6MT A-Spec Navi ABP
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Acura service follow-up
Hey all,
Good news! I received a survey in the mail about 3 weeks ago and gave both the dealer and ACS some horrible reviews. A week ago I received a call from Armina at Acura client services. I could not fully describe the difference in attitude and service that she has over the other losers there. She listened to my concerns, took my issues to her upper management, and came back in a day saying that Acura would reimburse the repair cost of the transmission. So, all's well that ends well.
Some of my faith in Acura as a company is restored. There are people who care... it's just hard to find them.
Good news! I received a survey in the mail about 3 weeks ago and gave both the dealer and ACS some horrible reviews. A week ago I received a call from Armina at Acura client services. I could not fully describe the difference in attitude and service that she has over the other losers there. She listened to my concerns, took my issues to her upper management, and came back in a day saying that Acura would reimburse the repair cost of the transmission. So, all's well that ends well.
Some of my faith in Acura as a company is restored. There are people who care... it's just hard to find them.
Fix it and sell it asap. Honda 
10-26-2004, 11:59 AM
#13
Where is my super sauce?
Originally Posted by Draiden
Hey all,
Good news! I received a survey in the mail about 3 weeks ago and gave both the dealer and ACS some horrible reviews. A week ago I received a call from Armina at Acura client services. I could not fully describe the difference in attitude and service that she has over the other losers there. She listened to my concerns, took my issues to her upper management, and came back in a day saying that Acura would reimburse the repair cost of the transmission. So, all's well that ends well.
Some of my faith in Acura as a company is restored. There are people who care... it's just hard to find them.
Good news! I received a survey in the mail about 3 weeks ago and gave both the dealer and ACS some horrible reviews. A week ago I received a call from Armina at Acura client services. I could not fully describe the difference in attitude and service that she has over the other losers there. She listened to my concerns, took my issues to her upper management, and came back in a day saying that Acura would reimburse the repair cost of the transmission. So, all's well that ends well.
Some of my faith in Acura as a company is restored. There are people who care... it's just hard to find them.
Hopefully they know that their handling of the transmission issue (especially before the extended warranty came to be) has alienated a lot of long term Acura/Honda buyers and has, at least to a degree, stained their name.
It's always good to hear about good and appropriate customer service.
An aside, this is the first I've seen of this thread and I just read your letter. Very nice job on a sane and well thought out document.
10-27-2004, 05:29 PM
#14
that person was prolly fired since they didn't fit in with the general attitude of Acura Client Services people .. can't have someone friendly .. knowledgable and helpful working for them .. that would totally ruin their reputation ..
11-16-2004, 06:04 PM
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I was a total acura fan, when they took pride in craftsmanship. My first(legend) was the reason I bought another one. Back then you could measure the lines on both sides and they would be identical, now I got gaps along the trunk and a huge paint drip or a metal bulge. bumbers don't line up perfect. It is a joke how they can still use the accurate, precision theme. It is just an overpriced honda. even honda's are fallin apart, I bought a 2003 accord v6 asked the salesman if they had any tranny problems he said it is a different tranny that it has no problems. last week I got a recall for a oil jet kit, are u kiddin me on a honda. acura 's repeat business is done, I will never buy one again. I got money that the rl tanks because of the way they handled the whole customer service.
11-16-2004, 07:25 PM
#16
Safety Car
Originally Posted by guest
I was a total acura fan, when they took pride in craftsmanship. My first(legend) was the reason I bought another one. Back then you could measure the lines on both sides and they would be identical, now I got gaps along the trunk and a huge paint drip or a metal bulge. bumbers don't line up perfect. It is a joke how they can still use the accurate, precision theme. It is just an overpriced honda. even honda's are fallin apart, I bought a 2003 accord v6 asked the salesman if they had any tranny problems he said it is a different tranny that it has no problems. last week I got a recall for a oil jet kit, are u kiddin me on a honda. acura 's repeat business is done, I will never buy one again. I got money that the rl tanks because of the way they handled the whole customer service.
CL/TL=made in Ohio
Don't tell me it does not make a difference!
11-20-2004, 06:46 AM
#17
Pro
The CL Tranny was manufactured in Japan. The rest of the American manufactured car appears relatively bullet proof. I guess I will try to buy totally American from now on. Thanks.
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