When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
That capped port connects to the intake elbow like Zeta said. It's there to lean out the AFR while the engine is warming up. If you left it open, then it's basically a huge vacuum leak until the coolant gets up to temperature (then it internally blocks off by itself).
Also, those are some cheapass plugs. I'd stick with the NGK plugs made for the J32A2. I think they're Laser Iridiums or something (I use the colder Densos because of the Supercharger).
Sorry, I woke up really early today to go to work so I can come home earlier and continue on my car. Thanks guys for the info, every bit of it helps! I'm going to put the j32 plugs and coils back in and check all the vacuum lines again. I'll let you know how I make out
So I put the spark plugs and coil packs from the j32a2 on the car using denso iridium power IK22 plugs. Still no difference at all. I even tried adjusting the fuel pressure higher and lower, no difference. Check the TPS sensors voltage right on the money at 4.65 volts wot. I had it idling a little higher to keep it running and I unplugged each coil pack to see if it's running on all 6 cylinders, and it is. Looked at the timing marks on the cam gears, dead on. Front head has little valve noise, not sure if they'll quiet down more as the engine gets hot, just haven't run it long enough yet. I noticed a Little Smoke coming from the front header, probably just the grease on the studs. I'm just listing everything possible here that I've looked at and checked. The picture below with that little valve thing (forgot the name) starts making a clicking noise every couple seconds. The second picture shows you where the two lines are hooked up to( 2 skinny hoses on the IM). I'm almost positive that's where they should be according to the length of the hoses.
#UPDATE#
I've spent hours trying to find out why it's not running right. So I figured that I've done a hcompression check when I first got the motor but haven't tried it again after I installed the type S cams. Before the compression was in between 220 - 230. Now they are between 165 - 175.
WTF........ somebody please explain how this is possible
The picture below with that little valve thing (forgot the name) starts making a clicking noise every couple seconds. The second picture shows you where the two lines are hooked up to( 2 skinny hoses on the IM). I'm almost positive that's where they should be according to the length of the hoses.
I see a T in the line that look like it is coming from the Air assist valve assembly, in the picture above, going into some kind of 'Two port' device and then another vacuum hose at the T leading down and to the rear somewhere?
In addition, when I google the Part # MX084860-7880, on the side of that device you are pointing at, I get Purge Vacuum Switch Valve or something like that.
I looked at my car and the Top vacuum line, from that device, goes down deep and forward to the front of the car. My guess is it hooks to the front motor mount.
The Bottom vacuum line goes to that small upper port on the rear of the IM near the brake booster line as shown on the picture below. I also have a small diameter vacuum line going from that small port under the Air Temp Sensor, on the IM, to the port on my FP regulator. I see you have a T in that line? Where do you have those lines running to?
#UPDATE#
I've spent hours trying to find out why it's not running right. So I figured that I've done a hcompression check when I first got the motor but haven't tried it again after I installed the type S cams. Before the compression was in between 220 - 230. Now they are between 165 - 175.
WTF........ somebody please explain how this is possible
Wow that's odd. Are there any codes being thrown by the ECM?
Wow that's odd. Are there any codes being thrown by the ECM?
No codes whatsoever. I just did a compression test on one cylinder that was making 175 and I put some oil in it and it jumped up to 215 and stayed there
No codes whatsoever. I just did a compression test on one cylinder that was making 175 and I put some oil in it and it jumped up to 215 and stayed there
Man. I don't know what to think now.
Hopefully, Karanx7 or others will visit later tonight with some helpful insight.
You mentioned in an earlier post that you religiously checked the 'timing' and it was showing the marks 'jiving' like they are supposed to, even after the J32 cam swap. You've been running the engine while chasing down any potential 'connection' issues, either electrical or vacuum related and no ECM codes have been thrown, potentially indicating anything awry (like bent valves), the whole time. I hate to even say it 2ndgentl; however, if it came to that, bent valves, you still have options to salvage the J35 with those two sets of J32 heads you have on hand. You would just need to check for warpage; but, let's not go there yet until this can be figured out.
Do you have the equipment to do a 'leak down' test? Perhaps that would get to the bottom of your 'all of a sudden' low compression #'s?
If that test proves positive for good results than at least the valves may not be bent. What do you think?
^
The following Helms attachments are for your reference.
The first one gives only the process detail after the Comp gauge is connected to the individual cylinder to be tested. It mentions to "open the throttle fully' while cranking?
The second attachment shows the 'compression specs' for the J32 as being a minimum of 135psi with a maximum variation of 28psi.
My mind is spinning Zeta just thinking about all the work I have performed from the beginning and still without a running car. I just walked back into my house from messing with it and I do have to say that I just put the stock FPR back on and it actually made a difference. The car still won't idle but revs up really smooth and rapid. Also I can keep it idling at 1000 rpm's and it stays running smooth, but once I let off the throttle it dies down. Tomorrow morning I will put the stock fuel pump in it and see what happens. When I last had it running after I put the stock FPR back on, I revved it a few times up to 5k and it sounded amazing, also it seems like it revs a little faster than my j32a2. I just don't know how it will perform with a load on it. I do have a leak down tester, so I will try and do that tomorrow as well. I'm losing sleep over all this but I still think there's a light at the end of the tunnel. I hope...
It sounds like the IACV is unplugged or clogged, so this is a good call. If the engine is running strong while giving it throttle, then your idle problem is limited to the IACV.
Originally Posted by 2ndgentl
My mind is spinning Zeta just thinking about all the work I have performed from the beginning and still without a running car. I just walked back into my house from messing with it and I do have to say that I just put the stock FPR back on and it actually made a difference. The car still won't idle but revs up really smooth and rapid. Also I can keep it idling at 1000 rpm's and it stays running smooth, but once I let off the throttle it dies down. Tomorrow morning I will put the stock fuel pump in it and see what happens. When I last had it running after I put the stock FPR back on, I revved it a few times up to 5k and it sounded amazing, also it seems like it revs a little faster than my j32a2. I just don't know how it will perform with a load on it. I do have a leak down tester, so I will try and do that tomorrow as well. I'm losing sleep over all this but I still think there's a light at the end of the tunnel. I hope...
Were you able to give your IACV a 'once over' check / cleaning to see if that would help with the idle issue?
Also, not to make any more work for you; however, if the idle issue is not resolved by tending to the IACV, do you think installing the 3.7 IM on would help in any way? Just throwing that out there as a suggestion. Also, were the intake runners you used from your J32 or the J35? Could there be a possible crack in one of them that would cause an unforeseen vacuum leak?
I wouldn't stress or lose sleep over this. It doesn't sound like valve damage or poor compression issues. If the engine can rev strongly, then it's healthy.
Obviously the CT FPR wasn't going to work for a NA setup (it's a rising rate fpr). I should have thought of that before, but it shouldn't affect the idle.
If it can maintain a healthy 1k RPM with the throttle slightly open, then your only problem is the IACV. The engine simply cannot get enough air to stay alive during idle. I don't know if the IACV is broken, unplugged, or blocked, but for whatever reason the engine isn't getting access to any air during idle.
For those saying vacuum leak, I don't think so. He would have idle surge or a high idle if that were the case. He has the opposite problem it seems.
Can you take a video of the engine revving normally and then the idle when it dies? Also maybe a couple zoomed out pics of the vacuum lines so I can see if something is switched up. Also just to be sure, a pic of the IACV plug.
The IACV that Skirmich used in his excellent DIY is Standard/Intermotor AC229. It can be had for $64.36 on Amazon vs. $190.28 from Acura online. Rockauto has them for similar money, just a little higher.
Okay, I have to clarify I had a hiccup I am not using the Denso iridium ik22 plugs, those were for my supercharger. The ones that are in the car are the NGK IZFR6K 11. I had those NGK's stored away in the Denso iridium boxes, that's why my brain got mixed up. So that being said, I have put the stock fuel pressure regulator back on, stock fuel pump, the 3.7 IM, I cleaned the idle air control valve, cleaned the EGR valve, and still doesn't idle. This is how the plugs look like now, let me know what you think about the plugs
^
2ndgentl,I'm just try to understand and clarify what you have been experimenting with (intake manifold/throttle body combo's) to solve your issue:
Initially, you started out running the Blox throttle body and its adapting hardware to the OEM J35 IM, correct? With the same result, no steady idle.
Now you've changed out to the 3.7 IM and the Blox throttle body and its adapting hardware, correct? With the same result, no steady idle.
Have you considered trying either a J32 TB or the J35 TB on either of the two IM's, 3.7 or OEM J35 to see if they give you a different result.
I understand it involves more 'work'; however, maybe one of those two TB/IM combo's will get this stubborn engine to perform with an idle so that can, at least, confirm that no other issues are going on, get what I'm saying?
Also, these are a few pics from when I timed it. To me it seems as if it's dead on, but let me know what you think. Also, if I were to check the timing while it's in the car how do I hook up a timing light to this engine, or do I just turn it over by hand and see if all the marks align once again. If I do that I have to take the aluminum crank pulley off to be able to see the arrow on the gear itself
^
2ndgentl,I'm just try to understand and clarify what you have been experimenting with (intake manifold/throttle body combo's) to solve your issue:
Initially, you started out running the Blox throttle body and its adapting hardware to the OEM J35 IM, correct? With the same result, no steady idle.
Now you've changed out to the 3.7 IM and the Blox throttle body and its adapting hardware, correct? With the same result, no steady idle.
Have you considered trying either a J32 TB or the J35 TB on either of the two IM's, 3.7 or OEM J35 to see if they give you a different result.
I understand it involves more 'work'; however, maybe one of those two TB/IM combo's will get this stubborn engine to perform with an idle so that can, at least, confirm that no other issues are going on, get what I'm saying?
It's just 'noise' I'm putting out there.
thanks for the info Zeta, I guess I can try putting the stock throttle body on and see what happens but honestly I've never had this issue before with that blox throttle body that's why this is making no sense to me. Now I'm thinking it's got something to do with timing even though I want to think that I timed it right. Those plugs now almost look like detonation. But I don't know for sure
Someone please tell me that I should get timing out of my head since I just looked at it and it looks fine to me. I forgot the aluminum crank pulley has marks on it, so here are pictures of the crank pulley, and cam pulleys. The last picture was hard to get to so I had to put a mirror on it, but they all looked dead on.
Someone please tell me that I should get timing out of my head since I just looked at it and it looks fine to me. I forgot the aluminum crank pulley has marks on it, so here are pictures of the crank pulley, and cam pulleys. The last picture was hard to get to so I had to put a mirror on it, but they all looked dead on.
2ndgentl, you have answered your own question with the excellent pictures you supplied in post #498 and post #500.
Here is how in post #498:
With the plastic TB cover assemblies OFF, the Helms manual states to use, in the 'Timing Belt Installation' section, the 'TDC marks' on the front cam pulley at the radius closest to the pulley teeth with the 'pointers' on the aluminium TB back cover plates. Your pictures indicate that the cam pulley(s) 'TDC marks' are in alignment with the 'pointer(s)' on the TB back cover plates, both front and rear. Along with the 'TDC mark' on the tooth of the TB drive pulley with the 'pointer' on the oil pump assembly.
Here is how in post #500:
With the plastic TB cover assemblies ON (like with the engine in the car & performing a valve adj.), the Helms manual states to use, in the 'Valve Clearance Adjustment' section, the 'pointer(s)' (at bottom of TB cover portals) on the upper F/R covers with the 'TDC marks' (the vertical ones) on the front camshaft pulley. Your pictures indicate that the TB cover 'pointer(s)' align with the vertical 'TDC marks' on the front camshaft pulley, both front and rear. Along with the 'TDC mark' on the crank pulley aligning with the 'pointer' on the lower TB cover assembly.
With the timing covers off the rear cam gear does look like it could be off but with the covers on it looks legit..
you are absolutely right teh CL, but I do remember taking that picture and I was at an angle even thinking to myself it doesn't look dead on through the picture but looking at it with my eyes it looked Dead on, that is why the timing marks are aligned with the plastic cover timing marks. So the timing should be perfect
2ndgentl, you have answered your own question with the excellent pictures you supplied in post #498 and post #500.
Here is how in post #498:
With the plastic TB cover assemblies OFF, the Helms manual states to use, in the 'Timing Belt Installation' section, the 'TDC marks' on the front cam pulley at the radius closest to the pulley teeth with the 'pointers' on the aluminium TB back cover plates. Your pictures indicate that the cam pulley(s) 'TDC marks' are in alignment with the 'pointer(s)' on the TB back cover plates, both front and rear. Along with the 'TDC mark' on the tooth of the TB drive pulley with the 'pointer' on the oil pump assembly.
Here is how in post #500:
With the plastic TB cover assemblies ON (like with the engine in the car & performing a valve adj.), the Helms manual states to use, in the 'Valve Clearance Adjustment' section, the 'pointer(s)' (at bottom of TB cover portals) on the upper F/R covers with the 'TDC marks' (the vertical ones) on the front camshaft pulley. Your pictures indicate that the TB cover 'pointer(s)' align with the vertical 'TDC marks' on the front camshaft pulley, both front and rear. Along with the 'TDC mark' on the crank pulley aligning with the 'pointer' on the lower TB cover assembly.
The timing does look, as you say, 'dead on'.
Like you said Zeta, I think I have answered my question. Lol timing will no longer be in my mind. That should not be an issue at all
Well, I don't believe it but I have it idling perfect now. Not sure exactly what was causing it but I cleaned out every single suction port from the intake manifold to the TPS sensor to the throttle body to the EGR valve to the idle air control valve and even to that purge valve that's on the driver side next to the front strut bar. I think that little purge valve (not sure exactly what the name is) had quite a bit to do with it because I would notice any time I tapped on the gas usually as the RPMs drop they dropped to about 800 RPMs and then bounce back up. But before it never did that, it just dropped straight down until it shut off. Now after I cleaned it it's actually bouncing every time I tap on the gas instead of stalling out. But now I have of course another funny thing going on... I noticed when the car warms up a bit there is a slight whirring noise that sounds like it's coming from the flywheel area. Not sure what to think now if it's going to go away or not. But I guess the next step is to put the wheels on and take it for a drive?
^
If you look at the third picture in post #498 of the rear camshaft pulley and its alignment, even though it does not 'exactly' line up as well as the one on the front head, if it were truly OFF, one would expect to see it be off by at LEAST the space of one full tooth, not the sliver that is shown, given all that's going on with the tensioner and related pulleys.
LOL, when I did my TB change years ago, I ran into a similar situation, where one camshaft pulley was not exactly lined up. I must have turned the crankshaft pulley more then a hundred times checking/rechecking with/without the TB covers trying to convince myself that the timing was 'off' because all I had at the time was the 'perfect alignment' of what the 'pictures' showed in the Helms manual.
Well, I don't believe it but I have it idling perfect now. Not sure exactly what was causing it but I cleaned out every single suction port from the intake manifold to the TPS sensor to the throttle body to the EGR valve to the idle air control valve and even to that purge valve that's on the driver side next to the front strut bar. I think that little purge valve (not sure exactly what the name is) had quite a bit to do with it because I would notice any time I tapped on the gas usually as the RPMs drop they dropped to about 800 RPMs and then bounce back up. But before it never did that, it just dropped straight down until it shut off. Now after I cleaned it it's actually bouncing every time I tap on the gas instead of stalling out. But now I have of course another funny thing going on... I noticed when the car warms up a bit there is a slight whirring noise that sounds like it's coming from the flywheel area. Not sure what to think now if it's going to go away or not. But I guess the next step is to put the wheels on and take it for a drive?
But now I have of course another funny thing going on... I noticed when the car warms up a bit there is a slight whirring noise that sounds like it's coming from the flywheel area. Not sure what to think now if it's going to go away or not. But I guess the next step is to put the wheels on and take it for a drive?
It might be one of the 3 flange bolts, I believe it was the top center bolt, on the front engine mount bracket to the block barely brushing up against the teeth on the flywheel?
This happened to mattcl-s when he installed a new LUK flywheel and johnboy1313 when he did a CL-S6 manual 'swap' and a LUK flywheel into his Honda Odessey. There is a video on mattcl-s thread below where you can here the noise; however, it does not sound like a whirring noise, as you mention. Worth a look!
My mechanic called just a little bit ago and what he told me had me by surprise, so apparently the teeth on the new flywheel were just a hair longer than the original one so what the noise was the teeth brushing up against a front engine mount bolt? and put a washer around the bolt so it wouldn't hit the flywheel.
It might be one of the 3 flange bolts, I believe it was the top center bolt, on the front engine mount bracket to the block barely brushing up against the teeth on the flyweel?
Nice find Zeta! But no it doesn't sound like that. It almost sounds like a slight whining of the supercharger, but nowhere near as loud. Funny that you mentioned that flywheel bolt behind the starter because now all of a sudden 1 out of 10 times I start my car the starter grinds against the flywheel which it started doing that a while ago but now it's doing it a lot more. Time for a new starter?
I spoke too soon. I'm ready to take it for a ride and as soon as I started it, there it goes again not able to idle. I took it for a ride anyways and the car feels really good but I only drove it in my neighborhood. It feels like a torque monster so far, I can't wait to get on it on the road. But now back to square one, it's not idling. I have a question, where do those two lines go from that purge valve? I have them both going to a tee fitting that goes straight to the intake manifold. The purge valve I'm talking about is the one in the pic below
I have a question, where do those two lines go from that purge valve? I have them both going to a tee fitting that goes straight to the intake manifold. The purge valve I'm talking about is the one in the pic below
Originally Posted by zeta
I see a T in the line that look like it is coming from the Air assist valve assembly, in the picture above, going into some kind of 'Two port' device and then another vacuum hose at the T leading down and to the rear somewhere?
In addition, when I google the Part # MX084860-7880, on the side of that device you are pointing at, I get Purge Vacuum Switch Valve or something like that.
I looked at my car and the Top vacuum line, from that device, goes down deep and forward to the front of the car. My guess is it hooks to the front motor mount.
The Bottom vacuum line goes to that small upper port on the rear of the IM near the brake booster line as shown on the picture below. I also have a small diameter vacuum line going from that small port under the Air Temp Sensor, on the IM, to the port on my FP regulator. I see you have a T in that line? Where do you have those lines running to?
You're like Acurazine's Rainman Zeta! Lol I can't thank you enough! You're right, the top port on that purge valve probably goes to the front motor mount which I don't have use for that line anymore since I have different motor mounts, so I'll just cap it off. But I'll make sure the bottom one goes to the intake manifold. The only thing about that 3.7 intake manifold is that it only has one small port on it, so the fuel pressure regulator shares that same one port on that intake manifold.
You're like Acurazine's Rainman Zeta! Lol I can't thank you enough! You're right, the top port on that purge valve probably goes to the front motor mount which I don't have use for that line anymore since I have different motor mounts now. But I'll make sure the bottom one goes to the intake manifold. The only thing about that 3.7 intake manifold is that it only has one small port on it
If I can help, I'll try, even if I get 'long winded', hehe.
I finally found that 'bloody' VALVE ASSY., ELECTRONIC CONTROL MOUNTING SOLENOID; #22 on the link below. It looks like I was correct in my 'guess' of the 'top vacuum' line going to the front engine mount. Check out the visual. At the minimum, If that #22 is ever defective now we know what Acura/Honda officially calls it.
So, what is the next option to try in your quest to get a 'stable idle'?
The next thing I'm going to do is pull the spark plugs and see how they look now that I took it out for a short ride. I don't know why but since it's been this difficult to keep this thing idling good I'm just hoping there's nothing wrong internal. I would just hate to take it out for a ride and end up hurting the engine. The front valve cover has some valve noise coming from there. I wouldn't say it sounds bad but it should have been better after I adjusted them, but I should have done a valve adjustment after I ran the engine. So I might have to do another valve adjustment now that I ran it and everything has seated. I mean, I'm not sure how long this engine sat for so doing another valve adjustment wouldn't hurt. As far as the idling, I might just order one of those Purge valves just in case. The problem is when you tap on the gas and Let It Go the RPMs bounce back up when they drop to about 800. So what causes it to bounce back up, that purge valve? I'm guessing the purge valve because I hear it clicking when it bounces up sometimes. I believe that is what I am missing since the RPMs just drop down to zero. It's just not bouncing back up
2ndgentl, the Helms (page 4-51) has a 'testing procedure' for that electronic control mounting solenoid for the CL-S6; however, from reading the testing procedure, my impression is that its only significance is solely in regards to using vacuum from the IM to manipulate the front engine mount to keep the engine from shaking excessively at idle.
There is a sentence in the testing procedure that states:
'Follow this procedure if the engine vibrates excessively when idling.'
The automatic CL-S has the same part #; however, it has a rear vacuum line T'ing into the main line going to the soleniod, along with the front mount vacuum line. If you analyze the parts diagram link below, for the Automatic, you'll see what I mean.
So, it may be better to wait on spending the money for that part if it has 'little to no' influence on your 'idle' issue.
Though just a hunch, you still may have an IACV thing going on with the Blox TB.
Can you quickly change out the J32 TB you had working with the 3.7 IM, before installing the Blox TB, to check if you get any 'Joy' in regards to stabilizing the idle?
That would be a little less work than going back to J32 or J35 IM. What do you think?
2ndgentl, the Helms (page 4-51) has a 'testing procedure' for that electronic control mounting solenoid for the CL-S6; however, from reading the testing procedure, my impression is that its only significance is solely in regards to using vacuum from the IM to manipulate the front engine mount to keep the engine from shaking excessively at idle.
There is a sentence in the testing procedure that states:
'Follow this procedure if the engine vibrates excessively when idling.'
The automatic CL-S has the same part #; however, it has a rear vacuum line T'ing into the main line going to the soleniod, along with the front mount vacuum line. If you analyze the parts diagram link below, for the Automatic, you'll see what I mean.
So, it may be better to wait on spending the money for that part if it has 'little to no' influence on your 'idle' issue.
Though just a hunch, you still may have an IACV thing going on with the Blox TB.
Can you quickly change out the J32 TB you had working with the 3.7 IM, before installing the Blox TB, to check if you get any 'Joy' in regards to stabilizing the idle?
That would be a little less work than going back to J32 or J35 IM. What do you think?
I'm just worried how these spark plugs are looking. They shouldn't look like this. I'll pull one out tomorrow and see if they look any different since I took it around the neighborhood. Also, that IACV is on that block mounted under the TB. Never had an issue with it before but I guess trying out the original TB would be a good idea just to see if it changes anything. I'll have to try it out tomorrow
I'm just worried how these spark plugs are looking. They shouldn't look like this. I'll pull one out tomorrow and see if they look any different since I took it around the neighborhood. Also, that IACV is on that block mounted under the TB. Never had an issue with it before but I guess trying out the original TB would be a good idea just to see if it changes anything. I'll have to try it out tomorrow
I got you. the IACV is not on the Blox TB, per se, but on that block with the vacuum connection ports from p2r.
Then try the J35 TB you received with the J35 instead, if possible.
The idea of the 'test' is to use an IACV other than the one on the Block. So, if it is not to much trouble, use one other then the one used thus far.
Did the salvage yard give you a throttle body on the IM from that second J32 you kept from the Midwest?
11-02-2017, 03:34 AM
Rockauto has them for similar money, just a little higher.
