Nashua_Night_Hawk

Xephyr, where's the Dyno?, you promised that you would post it sometimes last night!

Also, any updated on the new version: "new paint and new brackets".

Thanks.

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Black, Ebony, 3.2 CL Type-S.
- Acura NAV.
- 3M clear bra (full front bumper, and side mirros)
- Wheels locks.
- Mooonroof visor
- Splash guards,
- Winter mats,
- Trunk liner,
- Acura Spoiler.
- Valentine V1 Radar Locator.
- PIAA 19169 road lamps.

Xephyr2K

I did have the Car dyno'd yesterday, and made a total of 6 runs. 4 with Xephyr Performance CAI and 2 without. The temperature yesterday 58 degrees Farenheit, in the garage it was 68 according to the Type S. The total results were impressive I have no scanner so I had to use the digicam to photo the print out. One problem I ran into was that they made one print out and gave me a floppy with the all the runs on it, however I downloaded the viewer from dyno.com and it wont read I am having them email me the results again and mail me print outs...

The best run was 209.7 HP with 199.4 LB/Torque that was the last run of the day with the engine warmed up and a BIG fan they pulled out







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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes

[This message has been edited by Xephyr2K (edited 03-04-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Xephyr2K (edited 03-04-2001).]

Xephyr2K

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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes

Xephyr2K

You folks have no idea how cool it was running the car Everyone there just about choked when the VTEC kicked in and they saw I pulled 9HP more the the LOUD Mustang GT 4.6l that ran before me She looks like a beast tied down under acceleration on the Dyno!


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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes

[This message has been edited by Xephyr2K (edited 03-04-2001).]

[DWI]

phat how much that trim cost you?

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2001 Acura CL Type S "Claire" non-navi No spoiler. Bone stock, for now.
~Member of the Scratched Rim Club.~

Xephyr2K

A few concerns about the AEM dyno posted here:

1) This is NOT a result obtained by a DynoJet from DynoJet Inc. The DynoJet software uses WinPEP to graph and plot their data. The Dyno posted here was not done by WinPEP new or old versions. If you look at the post with AEM's Dyno: http://209.113.46.91/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001953.html

2) Why is the heading titled 2000 Acura CL Type-S Intake Test(Third Gear) ? The car was first released in 2001 ....?

3) BLXMX - Can you obtain the operating environment for the Dyno you posted? Temperature, Altitude, etc...? +13HP and +14lbs of torque seems odd to me from a CAI.. HP seems ok but the torque curve seems odd..

4)What "brand" dyno was used - DynoJet is the only company that I am aware of that makes stationary Dynometers.

5) I am not accusing anyone of any thing unethical... but the nature of a free flowing Intake of any type will result in a drop in torque. How the AEM CAI is increasing torque off the line is a complete mystery to me....

6) I WILL REIMBURSE the first person to Dyno their car without and then with their AEM CAI up to $85.00 as an independent verification of the results posted here.

7) One downside of the dyno's I ran is that they did not have any baseline for the 2001 Type S - They tapped the tach signal of cylinder #3 for a timing/RPM signal. Also it was not a new chasis DynoJet, but the older model...

8) I will post the remainder of the runs as soon as I get them, I will call the shop tomorrow and see if they can send me the files as images to post here....

Chris
Xephyr Performance, LLC.

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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes

[This message has been edited by Xephyr2K (edited 03-04-2001).]

soopa

I could be reading it wrong...

But to me it looks like the low-end power sucks with the intake on.

Otherwise... good shit. Thanks for the info... I'll archive this one after we get all the input.

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2001 Acura 3.2 CL Type-S
San Marino Red (Navigation)
PIAA 19173 Ion Yellow Fog Lights
Aftermarket Black Wood Trim Kit

Xephyr2K

Soopa,

No your reading it correctly the run in the post above was done in SportShift, tached to maybe ~2000 from first to a manual shift to second, ~2500 manual shift 2nd to third, then holding third at ~2000 and starting the Dyno. This illustrates the dowside of doing a dyno becuase under real driving situations the Torque/HP curve looks completely different when you enter third gear at 7000RPM and letting it run from there... completely different animal in results when your are entering third in VTEC.
Just as a reference point in the variation between Dyno results especially in Torque...
I believe that this is because each Dyno does an SAE correction to what is actually read off the DynoJet.. My uncorrected HP was 229 ......

http://209.113.46.91/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000726.html

Is Mike's Dyno after headers... his Max HP is 228.4 HP but his Max Torque with headers is 192.6

This is why I find the posted Dyno from AEM to be odd .... they show 211 lbs of Torque with just their CAI ... Thats 19 ft/lbs MORE then Mike with Headers and 29 ft/lbs more the STOCK !!! If that is true I'll eat my hat LOL

Chris
Xephyr Performance, LLC.

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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes

[This message has been edited by Xephyr2K (edited 03-04-2001).]

Xephyr2K

Lots of reads but no replies Helloooo We have a new faster Board here lets use it lol

Chris
Xephyr Performance, LLC.

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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes

EricL

It makes one wonder if the AEM graphs are with the actual product or with a simulation with no bends and some unknown length.

I would sure like to see the actual graph of the AEM before and after on a dynojet in 3rd gear with SAE correction.



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2001 Satin Silver Cl-S w/ NAVI

• Mud Guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo 235/45ZR17-97W* T1S Proxies on Stock 17" CLS wheels
• Gtech 1/8th tank 40F ~=6.1
• Zaino magic

WebToker

Not sure if this has been asked but, did you have the resonator in the car when you dyno'd with out the CAI?


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2001 Acura 3.2 CL Type-S
Comptech Springs
Apexi V-AFC
AEM CAI

Xephyr2K

Webtoker,

The resonator was NOT installed. This is a dynograph of the Factory Assembly without the Resonator installed. Additionally under all runs the entire splash guard and wheel well cover were removed to try to get more air in there since the car was stationary. Glad you mentioned that it completely slipped my mind !! lol BTW: My vendor did not ship the 2.5 inch Bypass valve, what I will do is order yours tomorrow and have it drop shipped directly to you.

Chris Koncur
Xephyr Performance, LLC.

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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes

WebToker

Ok sounds good. Now knowing that the dyno would have been a lot more different I think.


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2001 Acura 3.2 CL Type-S
Comptech Springs
Apexi V-AFC
AEM CAI

Xephyr2K

Webtoker:

Very true ! The results are slightly stronger w/o the resonator box installed. And as much as I would love to sell every member a Xephyr Performance CAI I think the Dyno shows that the removal of the resonator box is an inexpensive way to add some performance and sound for those individuals who don't have $200 - $300+ to spend on an intake System. However, more importantly it shows some inconsistencies in the Dyno that was posted for the AEM system....

Christopher Koncur
Xephyr Performance, LLC.

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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes

[This message has been edited by Xephyr2K (edited 03-04-2001).]

fbazakos

Chris,

I took my car out tonight with my cousin (the acura mechanic) -- he loved the sound, and could feel the extra pull ... he made fun of my for busting the one 10mm bolt that holds on the splashguard ... oops he'll fix it next time i'm in for "warranty" work.

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Black 2001 Type S
*Xephyr Cold Air Intake
*PIAA 19169 Road Lamps
*Acura Winter Mats
*Mudguards
*Mobile 1 Synthetic
---Still 2 rims not scratched---

Xephyr2K

Fotis,

Thats great to hear !! I love hearing the feedback everyone has with their Xephyr CAI's

BTW: if you mean the 10mm bolt in the front of the drivers side tire that bolts the splash-guard to the bumper.... Uhhh dont go over 85MPH ... I nearly ripped the entire thing off of my car one day while testing LOL I know I'm an ass, but if I didnt slow down to look for the flapping noise I was hearing I may have ripped the whole damn thing off ! LOL Happy Motoring !!!

Chris Koncur
Xephyr Performance, LLC.


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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes

scalbert

Huh, what difference does the operating conditions make if it is a reputable shop and all ambient sensors are within calibrations specifications?? These are used to do a correction factor negating any differences.

Mustang brake dyno's come to mind, there are others...

What is very nature of a free-flowing intake dropping torque and where does this information come from?? I've installed countless systems and tested a number of them without ever experiencing a drop in torque. Headers on the other hand have been known to lower torque in some cases but not too often. Cams are a point that could hurt the low end while gaining on the upper end. But a CAI???

Although the below is with a non-functioning IMRC (consistant loss of 20 - 25 lb/ft from 3800 on up) it is clear there was no discernable drop in torque anywhere:

fbazakos

yeah, that's the bolt i'm talking about



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Black 2001 Type S
*Xephyr Cold Air Intake
*PIAA 19169 Road Lamps
*Acura Winter Mats
*Mudguards
*Mobile 1 Synthetic
---Still 2 rims not scratched---

soopa

Wait... I dont understand...

How come the HP/Torque drops so much on the lowend with the CAI??

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2001 Acura 3.2 CL Type-S
San Marino Red (Navigation)
PIAA 19173 Ion Yellow Fog Lights
Aftermarket Black Wood Trim Kit

Nashua_Night_Hawk

See here :
http://209.113.46.91/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002145.html#5


------------------
Black, Ebony, 3.2 CL Type-S.
- Acura NAV.
- 3M clear bra (full front bumper, and side mirros)
- Wheels locks.
- Mooonroof visor
- Splash guards,
- Winter mats,
- Trunk liner,
- Acura Spoiler.
- Valentine V1 Radar Locator.
- PIAA 19169 road lamps.

soopa

Yea, I read that... but nevertheless... WHY?

To me a 50+ difference in low-end torque from stock seems huge. I mean... imagine what wed be saying if it GAINED 50+ torque.

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2001 Acura 3.2 CL Type-S
San Marino Red (Navigation)
PIAA 19173 Ion Yellow Fog Lights
Aftermarket Black Wood Trim Kit

scalbert

Ah, now I see the confusion on this matter. No one is making different torque for the most part.

The big differences are due to TC lash. Depending on at what RPM and how hard you roll into the throttle, the torque converter will cause this anomaly. It is based on the problem that the viscous coupling, TC, allowed the engine to be revving higher than the output doing what it is supposed to do, multiply torque. As the revs climb the input and output become more equal. It was this initial flash that causes higher number. Discount the first 500 - 1000 revs.

Nashua_Night_Hawk

2 things I could think of:

1) There is something funny in the dyno!
2) The fiter used by Xepphyr is different from AEM one. What is happening I think is the Xepphyr is kind acting like a valve, once opened by RPMs higher than 2500 RPMS it does its job perfectly. Cleaning the filter and re-oiling could help.

This is just a theory!

Let us see 1 AEM costmer, 1 Xephyr, 1 Injen, and a stock car, dyno their cars and we can see what is the difference!....

I still support Xephyr, seems with a bit more R&D, his CAI will prevail.

Tests, tests, and more tests

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Black, Ebony, 3.2 CL Type-S.
- Acura NAV.
- 3M clear bra (full front bumper, and side mirros)
- Wheels locks.
- Mooonroof visor
- Splash guards,
- Winter mats,
- Trunk liner,
- Acura Spoiler.
- Valentine V1 Radar Locator.
- PIAA 19169 road lamps.

[This message has been edited by Nashua_Night_Hawk (edited 03-05-2001).]

scalbert

I do think it is great he was able to offer an intake. But IMO, I doubt we will see a definite difference between any two intakes. Gas quality, dyno calibration, etc. would be enough to offset a 1 - 2 HP difference. Heck, even vehicle tolerance is enough to throw comparison tests out the window.

blxmjx

I agree with a couple of your points nashua, the filter that xephyr uses is different from the AEM filter. AEM uses an exclusively designed K&N filter that has a built in velocity stack. This filter has been shown to give a couple extra dyno proven horsepower. Secondly Xephyr would see increases in his intake with more R&D done. The problem is this R&D is usually done before the release of the product (AEM does over 50 dyno runs during their R&D). If the dyno would have been done initially instead of only a gtech then this would be a moot point. If xephyr were truly able to extract gobs more power from his intake right now. Then all his current customers would wonder why they got the guinea pig batch of cai's. As it is the people who are now ordering there intakes are now getting it powdercoated vs. just painted (correct me if I'm wrong about the original finish).

blxmjx

Also regarding your suggestion about getting one AEM customer, One Xephyr customer and one Injen and one stock car to dyno and check the differences. The only way to really do that type of comparison would be by utilizing the same car and just switching the intakes. There would be too many car to car variables. It's hard enough to get two stock cars to dyno with the same exact results.

Xephyr2K

Soopa:

That is predominently because the factory run above was performed in D4 and the CAI runs were done in SS at third gear with the car already at 2200+ RPM. You'll notice that a car makes the most torque - instantaneous torque - at a standstill. If you look at this graph of two runs, one in SS and one in d4 with the factory intake installed you will see what i am trying to explain.

the torque curves changes drastically depending on how and when in the RPM band the dyno starts recording and what method of shifting is used.

Hope this sheds some light on the questions... And no you do not lose 50 ft/lbs of torque with the Xephyr Performance CAI just appeared that way on the graph with 2 different launch types.

Chris
Xephyr Performance, LLC.



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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Okay, you are right. What can be done get 3 users who are already or want a differebt CAIs, order 3 CAI from Xephyr, AEM and Injen, let one of them volenteer to make his care the test car. And, do:

1) Stock dyno. Cool down the engine.
2) Install Xephyr's and dyno. Cool down the engine.
3) Re-Install AEM's and dyno. Cool down the engine.
2) Re-Install Injen's and dyno.

You have got your Comparo of Type-S CAI.

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Black, Ebony, 3.2 CL Type-S.
- Acura NAV.
- 3M clear bra (full front bumper, and side mirros)
- Wheels locks.
- Mooonroof visor
- Splash guards,
- Winter mats,
- Trunk liner,
- Acura Spoiler.
- Valentine V1 Radar Locator.
- PIAA 19169 road lamps.

scalbert

What the?? You made comparison runs in different gears or did I read this wrong?? The would be pointless as 4th (D4 limited) is under driven and 3rd is closer to a 1:1 ratio.

Also, as mentioned in a previous post. This instantaneous tourque is an anomoly due to TC lash.

BLKNBAD

CL-S Boys and Girls,
I dont post much but I read everyday.
I believe that you guys are making too much
fuss over these intakes...
Bottom Line:
Xephyr - $200 shipped w/bypass valve
AEM - $220 plus shipping w/o bypass valve
These intakes only add 9(+/-) Hp and 9(+/-) lbs. of torque....

Now either one wont make your car a 911 but
add some responsiveness to your vehicle.

As far as Nashua, you are a pain in the ass
and a huge institgator..

Nashua you dont own a Xephry or AEM intake,
therefore step up to the plate and buy one and test it.

Its only $200, if you cant afford it then
you should own a CL-S.

BLXMJ... You dont know what you are talking
about... You posted you got your intake for
free from AEM and you were the first car, why
wouldnt they performed a Dyno at the install to benchmark it ??

Is there any coincidence that AEM and Injen released there soon after Xephyr ? I THINK SO. And the AEM intakes is the same design as the Accord V6 but 3in. pipe. (lots of
R&D there)..

blxmjx

Youre the one that is an idiot. Yes I did get the intake for free once the production pieces came in. They dyno the intake preproduction. That is the benchmark, okay. Now get your foot out of your mouth and your head out of your ass.

In regards to Nashua he is basically trying to find out which intake he wants to buy. Nothing wrong with investigating before purchasing.

Did anyone ever say that a cai is gonna make a cl into a 911, I think not.

I agree that there is too much fuss about these intakes. But we now have these intakes which is better than not having them right?



[This message has been edited by blxmjx (edited 03-05-2001).]

fbazakos

no need to bash among us, i agree. i can't speak for an aem/injen intakes, i know that my xephyr intake works. and nobody is gonna get all 3 intakes, install and dyno each one, so stop dreaming. if you are truly doing research, then i can tell you that the xephyr intake performs as promised, and i am in no way affiliated with xephyr, just trying to give back what info i have, since i have learned so much from all of you. ps. save the bashing for the corolla's, oops i mean is300.

------------------
Black 2001 Type S
*Xephyr Cold Air Intake
*PIAA 19169 Road Lamps
*Acura Winter Mats
*Mudguards
*Mobile 1 Synthetic
---Still 2 rims not scratched---

soopa

ladies & gents... please disregard BLKNBAD's post since he will no longer be able to reply.

We really dont need people like that on the board. Goodbye.

Now on with the discussion...

Xephyr... can you get a Dyno with identical launches? Your explanation makes perfect sense... but I would like to see identical runs on a chart together.

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2001 Acura 3.2 CL Type-S
San Marino Red (Navigation)
PIAA 19173 Ion Yellow Fog Lights
Aftermarket Black Wood Trim Kit

BLKNBAD

You people on this board cant handle
the truth..

BLKNBAD

BTW Soopa... I'm back baby............

Xephyr2K

Soopa,

I will Dyno the car again before I do the V-AFC installation this Saturday. There WILL be a new product based on the Apex V-AFC coming soon with a few nice twists I will make sure to have the car in Stock/Xephyr configurations with both 3rd Gear SS starts, and D4 Automatic starts. I hope that the numbers will continue to speak for themselves

Fotis:

Thanks again for your words of praise My customer may be Much smaller the AEM's but it's really great to see they are every bit as loyal and enthusiastic !!

Thanks Again Everyone! Remember - Only good results for the consumer arise out of competition

Christopher J Koncur
Xephyr Performance, LLC.

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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes

[This message has been edited by Xephyr2K (edited 03-05-2001).]

WiLd~CL~TYPS-@SS

hohohohoho..i can..and????



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01 silver cl-s
k&n air filter
piaa 19169
cannon winter floor mats

BLKNBAD

Soopa,

Why are u trying to ban me.. I have read
worse on this board. What i said was
the truth.. I call horseshit on you...

thundercls

Question:
Is there a downside not reattaching the fog lamp access panel? I figure that might push more air in, hence more power.
Just a thought.

Xephyr2K

Thunder,

Are you are referring to the splash panel that runs along the bottom of the car? If so this actually is a one piece unit that is also the wheel-well liner. It would allow more air to reach the filter , however, it would also allow much more road dirt, grime, etc to get at the filter. Thus greatly reducing its life span between cleanings. Also, the car does not look too good w/o the wheel-well liner on it If you meant removing the road lamp to allow more air flow into the assembly, I have researched this and found it to add approx ~1HP under ideal conditions. But thanks for the feedback and suggestion

Chris Koncur
Xephyr Performance, LLC.

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2001 Nighthawk Black CLS Type S - Xephyr Performance Cold Air Intake, PIAA 19173(Yellow) Road Lamp Upgrades, Full Wood Trim, Spoiler, Best GTECH Sprint 6.05 Xephyr Performance Intakes