Chemmech

First of all, Sherwin’s setup will handle stock 17 inch Acura rims, with the use of 6 millimeter
spacers. I know people are afraid to use spacers, but Sherwin machines them down very nicely,
to close tolerances. My impressions of the 6 piston Wilwood Caliper and 13 inch Coleman
Racing Rotors. Well I guess I’ll start off with handling. At high speeds the car shows
much improvement over the stock system in handle high speed, tight, precise cornering. This can
be attributed to the light weight components of the system, I guess Sherwin can chime in with the
exact figures of weight savings. From a stop, straight line or even in turns the car shows
improvement in acceleration. Granted, I have the supercharger, but I felt the car pull more
effortlessly on the freeway low in the rev. range, at about 2,000 to 3,000 RPM with the
accelerator down between a quarter and half throttle. OK, I’m talking about brakes, so what
about stopping power? So far I haven’t noticed any brake fade and stops remain consistent. The
new system bites down and stops the car very well The car feels much better now, I can do
things with the car I wouldn’t have attempted with the stock system, such as high speed merging
into slow moving traffic.
Do I like the setup? I love it!!!
Here’s a few specs from Sherwin for the front system;
“6 piston calipers
13" x 1.1" directionally vaned 2 piece rotors
Hard anodized hats and brackets
choice of pads
stainless lines....”
“Im basically selling the kit for the front including everything , pads, lines, calipers, rotors, hats
brackets and all the hardware = $1550. Rotors are CAD plated and drilled and slotted
Rear matching pads are 30 bux....”

Sherwin‘s site, www.brakezone.com or e-mail at info@brakezone.com .
I have a couple of pic’s if someone can help me host?

BoostedM3

That sounds about right.

Chemmech

I want to do a 1/4 mile run, I'm sure the new lighter system will be quick . To bad this will be my first run, I have no baseline.

sgmotoring

Do Willwood calipers come in any other color other then black?

BoostedM3

I believe Sherwin said only black, but you can paint them if you like.

rmarin2

Any chance of getting a groupbuy for TL/CL's??!!

-Rich

Smitty

Congrats on the upgrade CHEMMECH...

But Sherwin's set-up is TOO steep in PRICE tag to fit alot of guys budgets around here.

I offered to take 3 kits off the guy for a discounted price and he still turned his nose up at the A-CL-S's on this forum.... (which goes to show a poor way of trying to make his sales GROW)

Essarack even flew out to California and had cash in hand awaiting for me to give him the go ahead and PICK THEM UP from him.... He still declined to try and help us out, since people like Essarack & others are PACE SETTERS.. .


Sorry, but if SOMEONE is not willing to work for OUR money, then I say they can take their PRODUCT and stick it where the sun don't shine.....(THE CLOSET)

P.S. I do NOT care how many POTS Wilwood has, it all equals out... I got 4 pots you got 6.... mine are larger pots than yours... big whoopee.... Stopping the 3500lb car is the point and some guys just upgrade the pads and got OEM slotted/drilled rotors and are achieving braking equal to a $1750.00 + $50 shipping WILLWOOD big brake kit.


Sorry if this came off a tad bit SALTY..... it is Christmas and all....so NOBODY take any offense to my post....

I am simply discussing this.... everyone deserves to know the truth and I have nothing to HIDE about my experience with Sherwin..... you can choose if you wish to do business with someone like that if you wish.... BEST WISHES

Smitty

rmarin2

No apologies needed. I think thats the whole purpose of these forums. To hear the good and bad things. Thank you for your experience, definitely worth taking a second look at.

-Rich

BoostedM3

I dont have a CLS anymore, but I'm curious how do you know this? Did someone compare the two setups (blanks vs big brake kit) on the same car or measure stopping distances?

One thing you guys have to realize is that only ONE person on this board has this kit...that was me and now its Chemmech. Sherwin has sold maybe 2 other kits for the CL, so it's pretty much custom made to order. IMHO, his price for this 4 rotor package is very fair especially compared to the price for fronts only from Brembo ($2395) & Rotora ($1395GB-1595MSRP). Rotora has some questionable customer service while Sherwin has been nothing but helpful when I had the kit.

Chemmech

Sorry to hear about all the issues you guys were having . I hope everyone can still be!

Smitty

everyone is fine Jesse.... no one is getting upset... I am just bringing the FACTS TO THE TABLE FOR ALL TO READ....

I made my offer 6 months ago to SHERWIN when myself and 2 other members of this forum had cash in hand and were willing to put SHERWIN on the map for big brake kit sales... but the guy stuck his nose up in the air and turned us down....so now maybe it will come back to bite him in the ass...and maybe it will not.

We simply asked:... 1500 per kit and we would pick them up that week since Essarack was in CA visiting relatives and checking on his IFORGED (cough cough... clown company.... cough cough) rims.

Sherwin only had 1 kit ready and would not budge off of 1750 because:...."My calipers have 6 POTS and they are better than any other caliper on the market.. blah blah blah".....

Kind of funny when people TRY to blow smoke up my ass....

Now Sherwin wishes to sell his kits for 1500.00..... hmmmmm... makes you wonder why he dropped his price since his so called set-up is supposively "the BEST Big brake kit on the market"

Smitty

Read the whole thread.. including the last post.

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...e&pagenumber=3


Ronnie, lets put somethings into perspective here:

#1. He did not even know if the braking system would fit on the CL-S or TL-S.... for that PRICE tag why would someone have to check ANY of the fitment issues?? (example: spacers)... they should already be KNOWN before it is even SOLD.

#2. He sold a WHOLE whopping 3 kits in the past 6 months, and only 1 person is from this forum.... YOU....now Chemmech owns it.

now we all know for a fact Chemmech got a deal on the braking system because he bought it 2nd hand...

Smitty

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...ghlight=Rotora

BoostedM3

True, but this is a one man job & a relatively small company. He prepares the rotors for each set himself (drilling, plating, cryo, etc). With so few kits sold, none of them probably had stock wheels and thats not a surprise.

Yes, Chemmech got a good deal from me.

Chemmech

I'm soo cheap! I got the supercharger for $3000 .

Blk03S

ebay?

Chemmech

Forums, someone bought it then changed their mind. It must have been up for sale for about 2 months. I have also seen the Brembo big kit for $800. There are deals to be had out there if you keep an eye out .

DocofMind

Why dont you give the whole story. That is harldy the entire truth.

First and foremost, you approached me with an offer telling me where you stood and what you were looking for. I told you what i was able to do and how I would be able to help you. I never brushed you off nor did i give you any HOLYer than now BS about how my products are better than anyone elses. I simply told you the critical components and specs of my kit. That is all.

Look who is coming off as the snobby one. I did all I could to help you get going with your group. I even offered to throw in rear pads and rear stainless lines in the buy for you guys but you still decided that it was not in your budget. Now you call me a snob because i said i couldnt do any better. I also told you that my parts are all manufactured in here in California and NOT in China or Taiwan like your kit. I also mentioned to you that my rotors were of a 2 piece design and were CAD plated and CRYO frozen unlike the others packages. Call it how you will, but atleast BE HONEST.

BTW, the price on the kit has not changed. I was offering the 1750 WITH rear rotors, the price of $1550 if just for the front.

Smitty

Ok Sherwin, sorry if you took my post the wrong way.... I clearly put the facts out for everyone to read....


You can try to blow smoke around here about how your calipers are better, since you clearly stated that on the phone... and how your prices are justified.... But ONLY you and I know what you said during that phone conversation..... Maybe you will learn a lesson in your sales pitch to your future customers....

I did my homework, you wanted 250.00 per caliper MORE just because you had 1 more POT per caliper than other kits... THAT IS JUST outragous.

As you can see from this post: ROTORA UPGRADE I got everything you offered minus the $250.00 extra POT on ther caliper.:ROLLEYES:

and excuse me for calling YOU out on this.. but your CRYO freezing is nothing special... where the brake contacts the rotor will rust regardless... and that is the only place

You were given the chance to make your mark, since alot of other members would follow but your prices were not going to budge....

P.S. Sherwin.... ANY BRAKE EXPERT WILL TELL YOU THAT THE USE OF A SPACER OVER 5MM IS NOT RECOMMENDED... ANYTHING OVER 5MM IS NOT SAFE IF YOU TRACK THE CAR!!!!!!!!!..

Hopefully you can work something out with some of the other members around here....

Smitty

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

The only way I would shell out the $$ for a big brake kit is if the kit included the rears as well. So far no one makes bigger rears. Brakes are the only upgrade left for me to do that I want. I am looking at the Willwoods cause they will fit the 17" SSR's I have with no spacers.

BoostedM3

Smitty - IMHO, most people wouldnt think of tracking their car with the stock rim/tire setup. With aftermarket wheels with the appropriate offset, you dont need spacers. I for one had no problems. Also, CAD coating prevents rust while Cyro hardens the metal & strengthens the rotors to prevent cracking.

I believe you get what you pay for. Weren't you the one who said in another thread "...go with the WILWOOOD, just because ROTORA is a bunch of asshats.... If I could do it all over again I would of went with WILWOOD and got the calipers in BLACK.." You got a good deal with them, but you had to compromise the lack of customer service.

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...hreadid=121576

DocofMind

Dood are you having a bad x mas or what?

First thing is first, you MUST compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. I was not charging you $250 because I had an extra piston in our calipers. As a matter of fact, I told you the exact opposite. I clearly said to you that the number of pistons is not what is important. What IS important is the actual diameter of the pistons. The total surface area. That is what is important. That is also what I pride my kits on. The fact that none of my kits need proportioning valves or residual valves. They also maintain the OEM pedal height and feel without disrupting the balance and factory bias front to rear. I also told you that my rotors are 2 piece which means they are lighter and stronger annd more restistant to cracking and warping UNLIKE your 1 piece set up that are NOT CAD plated and NOT cryogenically frozen. Maybe it doesnt mean anything to you, but my rotors and calipers are made here in the USA using a much higher grade material. Not Taiwan and China.

CAD plating is what the silver finish is. Cryogenic freezing is an entirely different process. One is for the resistance of corrosion while the other as Ronnie mentioned, hardens the metal. Totally different.

BTW, arent you running 5mm or something spacers with your aftermarket rims? And you are telling me its not safe? Keep in mind that my kit sits further in that your kit meaning that it provides MORE clearance. Besides, do you ever track your car? I do. Have been for the past 2 years. I spend quite a lot of time at the road racing tracks here in So Cali. As a matter of fact, besides my own S2000 that i track, we have another s2000 that is doing the NASA Honda Challenge. You ll see an article on the car and the brakes in the couple months in Honda Tuning. There is also a article in Turbo magazine this month on another S2000 i have done. Basically, my stuff gets tested ON THE TRACK before anything even becomes available. So please, save your smoke and blow it elsewhere.

Fuzzy, if there was a demand for a rear kit I would gladly make one. I have already done a few for a variety of vehicles including the NSX as well as a new car to us, the E46 M3 that is going to be shot for the cover of Eurotuner next month.

DocofMind

If you are interested in seeing more of our work, just follow this link. All of the cars equipped with Wilwood brakes are done by us. If you have any questions, please let me know.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS GUYS. Stay safe

Big Brake Gallery

ChadT

I had a question. I have heard that the Wilwood calipers are not really suitable for everyday street use because they don't have dust boots on them. Do you have any customers that have driven a lot of miles on the street with the Wilwoods? Do they need to be torn down and rebuilt more frequently because of this? I've been interested in Wilwoods before but wnt with Brembos because of this. Thanks.

DocofMind

Im glad you asked that Chad. This has been a rumor going on for quite some time. It is totally untrue. Even though Wilwood now offers some calipers with dust boots to quiet the critics, not having them does not neccessitate quicker rebuilds.

As a matter of fact, there is only one simple procedure require to maintain your calipers and inner seals in perfect working order. All you need to do when replacing pads is to clean the exposed part of the piston with scotchgaurd before pushing it back into the caliper. Thats all. I have had a set on our track miata for over 3 years now with no rebuilds. Car has over 20k street miles and atleast 3k track miles on the set.

If you are still in fear and worry about it, the calipers cost less than $40 to rebuild. Yes, you read that right, its cheaper then your OEM calipers. Wilwood does this themselves.

ChadT

You mean clean it with Scotchguard fabric protectant? Is that teflon or something? Makes sense that as long as the outside of the piston didn't get severly corroded there shouldn't be a problem. Thanks for the reply.

DocofMind

Exactly Chad.

The pistons themselves are made of stainless steel, so no need of worry there either. Better to resist heat transfer as well as corrosion.

Smitty

Ronnie, your absolutley right, but that was before I knew if the braking system would even work on the CL-S... I did recommend going with the Willwood (IF they had a proper kit).... and I would of went with the Wilwood, but Sherwin at the time did not even know if the set-up would work on the STOCK CL-S..nor did he know what spacers were needed.... That being said, I would not run a CUSTOM MADE 6mm spacer on the stock rim & tire set-up.

Now we know for a fact that you need a 6MM spacer on the stock set-up BUT keep in mind, All my brake research CLAIMED that the use of any spacer over 5mm on the CL-S is NOT recommended~..

Smitty

Originally posted by DocofMind
Dood are you having a bad x mas or what?

No, I am not.. and if you COULD read you would NOT be asking

Originally posted by DocofMind
I clearly said to you that the number of pistons is not what is important.

YOUR A COMPLETE LIAR

Originally posted by DocofMind

They also maintain the OEM pedal height and feel without disrupting the balance and factory bias front to rear.
[/QUOTE]
And what kit does not provide this???

Originally posted by DocofMind
I also told you that my rotors are 2 piece which means they are lighter and stronger annd more restistant to cracking and warping UNLIKE your 1 piece set up that are NOT CAD plated and NOT cryogenically frozen.

And the proof you have to back this BOLD statement up with?
Mind you, the 2 piece have alot more give/movement so you run a higher risk of your calipers hitting off the rim.

Originally posted by DocofMind Maybe it doesnt mean anything to you, but my rotors and calipers are made here in the USA

So your trying to justify your cost again?... saying that US materials are better than any other material?

Originally posted by DocofMind
BTW, arent you running 5mm or something spacers with your aftermarket rims? And you are telling me its not safe?


Yes I am running 5mm on my stock set-up and 3mm on my aftermarket.... on all 4 rims and tires
Man, I wish you could read, back track the previous posts and read Sherwin... anything OVER/EXCEEDING/MOVE THAN 5mm IS NOT RECOMMENDED!!

Originally posted by DocofMind Keep in mind that my kit sits further in that your kit meaning that it provides MORE clearance.
[/QUOTE]

Once again, your FULL OF SHIT!!! How can you say that, when a CUSTOM MADE (by you)6mm spacer is needed for your kit on a STOCK CL-S rim and mine needs a 5mm spacer ?

Originally posted by DocofMind my stuff gets tested ON THE TRACK before anything even becomes available. So please, save your smoke and blow it elsewhere.

And when did you track a 3500lb Acura CL-S, on the Wilwood set-up?

Originally posted by DocofMind
Fuzzy, if there was a demand for a rear kit I would gladly make one. [/QUOTE]

Keep in mind, that it would look nice, but it would serve no purpose... over 75% of the front braking system is used to stop our 3500lb cars.



P.S. Sherwin, quit thinking I am trying to beat you down in this thread... revert to my VERY first post and read it well...

We are simply discussing this.. that is all..

BoostedM3

Another possibility is that a 5mm spacer may still work on the stock setup. When Chemmech and I did the swap, the stock TLS wheels cleared the caliper with the 6mm spacer, but there was more than 1mm space b/w the wheel & caliper (3mm maybe).

Smitty

Well WHO the hell knows for sure???.... You know maybe Sherwin will know since he track tested it, supposively?......


Why should Jesse or Ronnie have to do the fitment.... that is why I am bitter towards ROTORA.. they were the same way, but I got EVERTHING for the braking system. for alot less than 1750.00 Why should any of us have to be a quinea pig for these so called BRAKE experts??????

Bullshit, this is so stupid.....

Good old Sherwin can type his little fingers off to how many braking systems he is putting on cars in tuner magazines but do any of us know the TRUTH?.... will his company go belly up?... Will he back his PRODUCT up 100%

Will Sherwin put together a Groupbuy with EVERYTHING included for 1300-1550???

I hope guys can understand where I am coming from here.... I not trying to be a dick... I am looking after the best interests of this board.... We want a DEAL... not an ass pounding..!

Sherwin, I am extending my apologizies out to you if you took any of this the wrong way..... but I am calling you out!..... prove me wrong... or atleast try...

DocofMind

You are obviously not so happy with your purchase or you woudlnt be trying so hard to prove your purchase as worthy. To come out here and blatantly lie is just sad. Just because you couldnt afford what i was offering you is not a reason for you to hate. I even told you that I was doing this as a favor for you guys. I told you that the money was not even important to me. I do this stuff because of my passion for cars. As Ronnie I know will protest, I said the exact same thing to him.

I do back my products up. So does Wilwood. Which is why they asked me to do a couple of the cars they were representing at SEMA this year. That is also why I am doing Injen's G35 as we speak. Our business has been around for more than 40 years so I dont think going belly up in the next year is really an option.

You are correct in saying that I have never driven a CL on the track. I have driven my good friends supercharged NSX which actually uses almost the exact same components as the CL on the track. On R compound tires no less.

I also do think that there is a difference in between materials made here in the states compared to stuff made over seas. They have gotten better, no doubt. But so have we.

Have you ever even priced a 6 piston 13" Wilwood kit from any other supplier? Front kits start at $1800. So please stop acting like you are saving anyone from this board just because you are not happy with your purchase. I go out of my way to not only help people, but to befriend them as well. That is why my customers remain customers. I dont supply off the shelf packages for anyone. I tailor each package to the individuals needs to ensure that they are getting exactly what they are looking for.

By the sounds of it Smitty, you are trying to be a dick. Not only to me, but to everyone else for lying about our conversation.

DocofMind

Here is a pic of the components6 pot W/ 13s

AQUI NO!

setup looks good.

DocofMind

Regardless of all this, as the kind Smitty as turned this thread to a pissing contest, I would like to paint the picture with a new reality.

For those of you seriously interested in upgrading your brakes, I will put a package together including a front big brake kit and matching rear rotors for $1550. The kit will utilize a new caliper to Wilwood. It is a FORGED 4 piston caliper which offers the newest and most exotic materials and machining techniques available to us today. This process makes it one of the strongest and most versatile calipers in the world. If you guys would be interested in me holding a GB, I will talk it over with owner of the board and set it up for you. I will post pics of what the kit will look like later today.

You guys can thank Smitty for this one

BoostedM3

That sounds like a nice guy to me!

Sherwin, a question everyone is going to ask is would it fit the stock rims? what spacers if need? If the fitment issue is resolved, I think the GB would move much smoother.

usc

... i think it's fair to say that ANY aftermarket brake caliper that have pistons on both sides WILL NOT clear stock rims. thus making it necessary for spacers.

Chemmech

To be honest, I went to Sherwins shop before I had bought the kit from Ronnie. Sherwin gave me the largest spacer he had, so that my 6 hour drive to do the swap would not be a waste of time. Sherwin even told me to come back so he could check the spacer's clerance and said he would exchange it if necessary. I'm gonna go to get the matching rotors for the rear next week and get things checked out .

Smitty

I am satisfied with my purchase, except the color.. My front and rear calipers are currently off the the car while they gettng stripped and powdercoated Black... that is why I WAS interested in the Willwood kit you offered...

... I offered to buy 3 of your kits with CASH you fool...
You don't know me too well.... nor can you read too well either....no one is hating... we are discussing the braking system..and I never said anything about how the ROTORA kit is best/less than, in anyway, shape or form...

...... your right!.... I have so much to prove....


I have no reason to lie Sherwin....and I hope you do stand behind all the kits you sell on A-CL... Best wishes to you.

Smitty

This is Great...and thank you...(will it include shipping?)
Will it include SS lines and rear pads?

BUT.. it looks like you put your foot in your mouth..
you just PROVED MY POINT that you JUSTIFY your costs because you got 2 extra pots on the 6 caliper system.. and that was our Phone conversation.. you tried to sell me on the fact that those 6 pots were well worth the extra money........

WHAT is the actual diameter of the pistons on the 4 piston and the 6 piston???.... and are you justifying your cost because of the diameter on the pistons?.... it sure seems that way.... read below
YOUR PRICES:
6 pot WILLWOOD kit... $ 1750.00
4 pot WILLWOOD kit ... $ 1550.00

I would think that a 6 piston set-up would have a larger surface diameter .. but you tell us..

that was my whole point and it totally brings out the truth behind our phone conversation.. I never forget a conversation...