Matthew78

i'm looking at acura's website on their lease 'special' on the base CL for $349/month with $999 down... is that a good deal? i'll probably try to talk to the dealers and see if they can do a bit better than that.

also for those of you with CL-S, what kinda lease deals did you guys get?

also, i've kinda looked over the tranny forum and did some searches.. but are most of the tranny failures on the type-s models? do they share trannys with the base CL/TL? or are failures also common the base?

nate'sCLS

n/a

NW-CL

be careful about relying on the Acura website. Before I bought mine, several dealers complained how they were pissed about it because customers came in thinking they could get payments for that price when the dealer couldn't go that low. Also, keep in mind that the monthly payment estimate does not include tax. My payment is $341/month before tax, but $371 after....big difference! Of course, the tax all depends on where you live.

maevonee

i bought mine 10,000 down 320 a month

JasonT

Leased mine, first month payment, tag fees down(less then $600), $420 with tax, 15K miles/year, 39 months.

suXor

Well no shit, if you put 10k down your payments are going to be small....

Matthew78

yeah, i know about that. i had that experience with a bmw..

but this is specifically listed under their 'current new car specials' section..

Matthew78

damn, that sounds like a good deal and that's the car i really want (type s 6 spd) how much did you put down? how long is the lease, miles per year?

IntegraVT

iTrader: (1)

Many advertised lease specials are "subsidized," which means the residual value or capitalized cost are artificially set.

Sometimes incentives or rebates are figured in to the advertised price which most buyers do not qualify for. (The big 3 are notorious for adding stuff like Recent College Grad Rebate, Previous Owner Loyality into specials.)

BTW, $10k down on a lease? Holy crap!

russianDude

LEASE sucks big time!!!

It's either for poor people who want to drive an expensive car but can't afford it, or for rich people who like to change their cars every 2-3 years... Which one are you?
You better be rich, cause if you are poor -- you are making a big mistake. You should always be able to afford to buy a car, otherwise get something cheaper.... don't ever look at the lease as a cheap alternative when you can't afford something....

My friend at work got screwed with the lease, he got lay off from his job, and found a job 50 miles away from home.... every year he is like 15K miles over allowed yearly lease miles.... it costs him a fortune to drive his car, and he can' t get out of this lease ( they have this contract binding and crap like that).

You never know how many miles you will have to drive, our lives are very dynamic and you never know when you have to change a job or something like that.

I'd say lease is only good for rich people..... if you can't aford a car -- leasing is a stupid mistake!!

Beltfed

So, you have to be worth millions to lease? What's your definition of rich?, everyone I know is not worth millions (including myself) and loves leasing.

Let me rephrase, "you shouldn't lease if your job security might be in question". When you lease, you pay for the mileage you think you're going to use......my buddy just leased a top line Pathfinder LE with 18k/miles a year. Sometimes, you go over on the mileage, thats life (you'll just have to pay the .10-.15cents per mile you went over at lease end).

The point of leasing is to put down the "least" amount of money as possible.....because if the car gets stolen or totalled, you lose that money.

Its easy to get fucked on a lease, but if you know what you're doing, it can be a great thing.

I'll never buy a new car unless its like tops $25k, I like switching cars very frequently and buying just doesn't fit into my scheme.

bullaculla

0 down, and $585/month.

Matthew78

that guy said he bought the car for 10k down..

also, if you guys could let me know which CL you guys got as well as the lease deal, that'd be great. thx!

Matthew78

well, i don't consider myself rich at all. i'm only a salaried engineer. i don't have anything left after taxes. :P

i want to lease cuz my current car is paid off and i'd like to use that to help pay for buying a house.. and just lease and drive a car around for a few years with little/no down payment and buy another one later. i'm usually against leasing myself..

russianDude

By being rich I mean the following:
The car that you are planning to lease - you should be able to purchase without any difficulties. Lets say you want to lease CLS, you should always ask yourself a question: Can I afford to buy it and still have enough money for all my other expenses?
If the answer is NO, then lease is deffinatly wrong for you! Perhaps you can buy something in 20-25K range?

If the answer is yes, then you have to be 100% sure in the following:
1. Am I gonna be within lease miles for the term of the lease?
2. Am I sure I will want another lease after the current lease is over? Will I be able to afford another lease/new purchase after lease is over? Could I have new expenses in my life in 2-3 years? ( wife becoming pregnant/education/medical bills - you name it!)
3. Do I realize that leasing is not the best way to save money?
Keeping car for 5-6 years will save you more money rather than getting a new lease every 2-3 years/


To me personally, I can not know the answer to all of those questions within 100% accuracy.... its life, and sh*t changes day by day.... I rather buy the car instead of taking chances.... and if in 3-4 years things will be fine I'll sell it and get another one.... And if things are bad, I'll keep it....

Owning a car gives you more flexibility in your choices......
By heaving a lease contract -- they hold your balls and you can't do sh*t

Matthew78

oh yeah, i was going to buy (buy as in not leasing) a bmw 330ci originally. so i guess i could easily afford the CL....

russianDude

See, you are leasing because you can't afford to buy it ( I am talking about financing, not paying in cash ). You need money for something else: house and etc...

In your case I would suggest getting something cheaper, something you can afford to buy (finance over 4-5 years).

russianDude

If you can buy or lease CL and still have enough money for other expenses, then I guess it's OK to lease.... ( just make sure you can 100% gurantee all the things I mentioned)

GreenMonster

My lease payment is $00.00. I financed the sucker

Matthew78

that's good advice, buying a cheaper car, but i just can't see myself driving a civic/accord. :P :o

and the thing is we never know what the future holds....

russianDude

Back in 2000 when I bought my 2001 CLS I was thinking same as you.... I wanted to lease $40K BMW or Lexus... back then Economy was excellent, I am a computer programmer.... I had jobs lined up everywhere ....

Right now I am so glad I bought it, and did not lease it.... things are tough now, and I don't see myself getting a new car in the next 3 years.... (economy & plans to move in with gf ) I got little less than 2 years of payments...
thanks got they will be over one day.... and then you can breath FREE... financial freedom is the best thing

That's why I am saying that lease gives you less flexibility should your life change....

edit: not to mention that you will have to buy gap insurance on your lease and worry about having scratches and etc... the as*holes will make you pay for every scratch when your lease is over.... Don't know about you, but I don't like all this complexity...

Beltfed

No they don't, first off gap insurance is a set law in a certain number of States (including New York).....its included by law. In New York, you do have to pay for gap insurance on a Finance though.

I have leased who knows how many cars and they don't hit you up for every scratch. You should see some of the shit I have handed back to the dealer on my cars. If they do happen to hit you for something, it comes out of your security deposit (if there happended to be one).

Keeping a car for like 5 years would warrant a purchase, I agree.

If I had bought the Viper, I would have been fucked.....because some stupid bitch hit me, causing around $15k in damage. My resale would have gone down a nice chunk of change if I had purchased the car. It looks great now, but doesn't change the fact that its a semi exotic and was repainted in certain areas.

Good thing I leased it, now I can give it back without an issue and get myself a new car. Don't have to worry about dealing with all the selling BS.

russianDude

True that leasing gives you less hassle....
So you are saying even if your leased car was in major accident ( fixed under car insurance) they will not make you pay more money?

About gap insurance, its mandotary in some states, its true... my point was that its just more $$$...

I guess it depends on individual, My biggest turn off from lease is that once you are in, you can't get out....

Beltfed

I see where you're coming from and I give you credit for being able to carry on a conversation without becoming irrational....like many do on this and other forums.

Yes, if you try to break a lease, you "will" have negative equity.....you will have to buy out of the lease (more often than not, in some cases you can have someone take over the lease but thats rare).

On the other hand, if you financed the same car (while you aren't penalized for the interest like a lease).....you will still lose money if you sell in a relatively short period of time- due to depreciation.

Its a very subjective area, Leasing vs. Buying will be a never ending debate. What works for some people, doesn't work for others.

DISRUPTV

I agree w/ Beltfed, leasing is not a bad way to go if ur not concerned w/building equity and if u purchase a new car but what if it depreciates horribly??

Also, I don't know if Acura does this, but I imagine they prob would, when u lease any new honda, Honda covers you up to $1500 worth of damage to ur car at the time u return ur leased car....this means that say u accumulate $1400 worth of damage, Honda will pay for it and u do not have to worry abt it, however, if u have sustained $1800 worth of damage, u will have to pay $300 ($1800-$1500)

russianDude

or if your life changes unexpectedly and you have to drive more miles ( over lease miles )

bkknight369

Leasing is only for poor people? Ok granted if you get layed off of work, you get screwed...assuming you dont use the option to buy at the end. I dont even know why people get so obsessed with keeping a track of their car values from edmunds.com...who cares? The acura is the most luxarious and powerful car I've ever owned...Im sure its different with some people that currently own vipers..but I intend to buy out the car after the lease is over, and take it well over 100k miles.

Unless the car is a true exotic, it is not a good investment at all, so why bother trying to pretend it is?

clscls6s

No offense, but I don't think you or your friend understand leasing very well. Your friend didn't (and still doesn't) have to get "screwed" - he signed a contract for a lease knowing what he was getting into. If he wants out of the lease or wants to avoid the extra miles charges, all he has to do is trade in the car or buy it at lease term.

And regarding scratches, etc. All lease companies have set standards that they go by for lease returns. They do not have to be perfect - far from it. All lease contracts account for "normal" wear-and-tear. I have yet to have a leasing company charge me for anything like scratches, dents, etc., and I'm probably on my tenth lease.

In response to Matthew78....

First, I've leased a ton of cars, so I do have some experience at this. Second, I worked for a major leasing company for 6 years, so I know most of the tricks and most of the BS that goes on, as well. :P

There are several reasons to lease a CL versus buying one.

1) If Acura does quit making the CL, the resale values will likely go down. If you buy the car, you might end up owing a lot more than it's worth, making it more difficult to trade in, sell, etc.

2) If the transmission problems on the autos continue to get bad press, the resale values are going to go down. Same problem.

3) The lease special Acura has right now is very aggressive - the lease charges are equivalent to a little more than 3% interest on a loan and most dealers are discounting the cars.

4) Gap insurance. russianDude has it backwards - gap insurance is included in almost all leases, but is included in very, very few loans, unless you buy it as an option. If the vehicle is totaled or stolen, gap insurance pays off the difference between what is owed and what the car is worth, after your insurance deductible. Many gap insurance claims cover shortfalls of many thousands of dollars.

5) Sales tax. In many states, you only pay sales tax on the lease payments and any down paymenton a lease. On a $30,000 car, the difference can be substantial.

Reasons not to lease?

1) If you plan on keeping the car forever (5 years or more), buy it if you can get a loan with a good interest rate. You'll be better off in the long run and will likely pay less overall.

2) If you drive tons of miles, buy it. Though, again, if you can get a great deal on the lease, you could always trade the car in or buy it at lease term to avoid the extra mileage charges.

I just leased my '03 CL Type-S 6-speed for $405/month including tax (7%) with nothing down - 39 months, 12k miles/year. Don't be afraid to negotiate or check different dealers. If I recall correctly, the $349 lease on the base CL assumes a discount of around $1,000. Get a bigger discount and your payment will go down.

Alternatively, I could have forked out $550+ a month or so on a five-year loan. (Or $580 a month for a lease on a G35 coupe, but that's another story....)

Say I keep the car for the 39-month period. On the lease, I'll pay $14,800 or so, plus $1000 or so in lease taxes (the lease equivalent of sales tax) and be able to dump the car on Acura, even if resale values drop. If it's worth more than the lease-end buyout, I can sell it and pocket the difference (not terribly likely with the CL.)

With the purchase, I'd pay $22,000 or so in that same 39 months, plus $2,100 for sales tax up-front, still owe about $12,000 or so, and have a car that, if I'm lucky, will be worth what I owe.

The difference between buying and leasing in this case is about $9,000 which I'm certainly not going to make back on the sale of a 3-year-old CL.

If you're going to keep a car forever or drive a ton of miles, buy it. No question. If you want a new car every 3 years or so and you don't drive much more than 12k-15k miles/year and you can get a great lease deal, do it. There's no reason not to.

Sorry for the incredibly long post - I believe in having as much info as possible when making a decision! Good luck.

nokio

i paid for it up front with a check

jimcol711

dude, you are totally wrong on this one, first of all a CL-S is not 34k i got mine for just under 28 grand...granted i dont have navi but even with navi, that puts it around 30..not 34k....second of all, 39 months is juts over 3 years, there is NO WAY a CL-S will only be worth 12k after 39 months with decent mileage, sure the CL-S will depreciate like anything else but this isnt a Pontiac Sunfire or something, this is a very nice car that retains a good portion of its value.....i expect my CL-S to be worth EASILY 20k after 3 years....i only drive 10-12k miles a year so i have no reason to doubt that my CL-S, in very good condition, with 30k-36k miles will EASILY be worth 20k....maybe not on trade in but DEFINATELY on private party sale....im expecting to keep my car for 5+ years and hope to trade it in for at LEAST 12k after 5 years and i think this is definately possible.

torqueaholic

you sir, are a flaming ignoramus!! leasing because you are poor and want to drive rides for the rich isn't really a bad idea! with expensive cars you generally get better safetly etc!! By the way thank god I leased my acura TL, because we all know about our POS tranny, which by the way sucks!!! Thank god that in 4 years, I'll move on to A bimmer or something, while your stuck owning a rapidly depriciating CL, with bullsh1ta$$ tranny! its sad, but even my cavalier's tranny is better than my 30k luxury car's tranny!

Sir, leasing is for SMART people, who aren't scared by bulky literature, know how to read the f#$king fine print, and are good at taking care of things that are not theirs!

Matthew78

man, that's a sweet deal on a type-s 6spd. i'm just about to start negotiating.. what was your negotiation technique? thanks for the post, it's helpful.

russianDude

thats why I said in the begining, that leasing only makes sense for people who have enough money for all other things and are reallly financially independent. This means they could BUY or LEASE the car they want without any financial difficulties...
Also, when you lease you must be 100% sure you will be within lease miles and that you will have financial stability in future...

I wonder how you people can be so sure in the number of miles you drive and your job security? You keep saying "I like switching cars every 3 years". What if on your third year you lose your job and now you wish you had bought this car in the begining to keep it.....

sure, you can buy your car after lease is over.... but from what I heard this is expensive considering the amount of money you already paid on lease ( now you realize you would be better off to buy in the first place. )


Its a long argument, but my argument that by buying a car you have more flexibility:
-drive it as much as you want
-sell it whenever you want, to whoever you want, and ask as much $$$ as you want.

And if economy is bad or your wife is pregnant, you can drive it for like 10 years....

purchase is about having choices.....

torqueaholic

rubbish!

My monthly payments with 3k down are 350bucks a month! If I get laid off, I can sill afford to have my car! Also to answer your questions:

1. I am well able to keep her at 12,00miles a year, no problem! I fly to places that are farther than a 6 hour drive!

2. Hell, yeah, I'm going to want a different car! in fact its a bmw 330XI auto! yes, I will be able to afford this new lease, in fact I have started to save for my 3k down payment! new expenses in my life? no!!! no wife here man! just single, and either jerking off to porn or f%^king B.ITCHES

3. nonsense! With that same down payment, my monthly payments for a financing would have been 600 to 700 per month! My savings have never been better! I hope you don't change that cls tranny of yours during your eternal love affair with the car!

torqueaholic

and here's why I leased:

1. I want to drive it like I hate it, and not give a dam about where I park my car(to avoid dents), or spend hundreds detailing this thing(Zaino) !

2. I am well under 12,000miles a year

3. I want something new every 3 to 4 years!(thank GOD! this way I'm not stuck with our bullcrap tranny!)

4. I want to drive cars well above my income level, so that people won't guess I'm poor shit in a neon!:thumbsdn:

5. I want to give the car back to the dealer without the trade in low ballin' and hassle

6. I want low monthly payments(between 300 and 400bucks a month), so I can weather storms such as rolling lay-offs!

russianDude

Yeah, I'll have my car for 5-6 years and will save more money in 5 years than you will from switching cars every 3 years. Plus I will have more flexebility....

Exepensive cars are safer? what kinda crap is that?
$23K Honda/Toyota is very safe, much safer than $30K Nissan 350Z....

All financial advisiors tell people who are in financial difficulties:
STOP LEASING EXPENSIVE CARS!


I never said leasing is wrong for all people, but its definatly wrong if you are in finacial hardship ....

russianDude

This is non-sense, leasing never saves you money... You will save money by keeping the same car for 5 or more years rather than leasing new car every 3 years. You are only considering month to month savings, in the long run you lose more $$$ by leasing...

But then again: you said you want new car every 3 years, its your right, and in this case lease is better for you! But don't tell me that you are saving more money in the long run, this is not true...

russianDude

This is so stupid.... Smart people never make conclusions about one's income based on his car..... Some wealthy people drive cheap cars, that's probably how they got wealthy -- cause they SAVE money!!

I dont give a sh*t what people think about my income or my car, I bought it for MYSELF only.... and if I happen to like neon, I could careless what people think about me! I do things for myself only!

clscls6s

1) First of all, your math is flawed - $550 x 60 = $33k, not $34k.

Re: $34k (or $33k) vs. $30k. You're forgetting interest, unless you know a good place to get a 0% five-year loan on an Acura.

Invoice on a Type-S is around $28,700 - are you saying you paid close to a grand under invoice?

2) If the transmission issues become a big media deal, resale values will drop like a rock - count on it. I'd rather not take my chances. Three different dealers have already told me that they're already seeing problems at the auto auctions on returned CL's. '99 CL V6's are already getting less than $15,000 average trade (NADA) and less than that at auction.

Sure, $12,000 could be an extreme example, but it sure as hell isn't going to be worth a $9,000 difference between buying and leasing.

3) Sure, you may get more from a private buyer, but expecting it to be worth $20,000 and actually getting it are 2 different things. You're not going to get 65% of original retail after 39 months. According to Edmunds, the '01 CL Type-S average private party price is barely $20,000. And, an '01 is barely two years old, so there's no way a 3+ year old CL is going to pull $20,000.

clscls6s

Wrong. Why would a financial advisor tell someone who could lease a vehicle for $350/month to buy it for $550/month instead? That's stupid. Any financial advisor attempting to help someone in financial difficulties is going to tell them to get their monthly debt load down, not buy vs. lease.

Let's assume, for a moment, that someone who is borderline financially goes out and buys this $30,000 car. They drive it home and it gets stolen before they even make their first payment. The insurance company will value it as a used car, say $25,000, for a completely hypothetical example. The insurance company pays the finance company $25,000 and the customer owes the finance company $5,000 (plus their insurance deductible) for a vehicle they no longer have! Now, if the vehicle had been leased, the gap insurance would have covered the difference.

With zero down, you're going to be upside down in a loan (owe more than the vehicle is worth) for a minimum of 2 years. So, using your logic, someone who can barely make ends meet is going to be screwed if the car is stolen or totaled any time during the first couple of years. They already had higher payments to begin with, now they owe a bunch of money on a vehicle they don't even have. With a lease, they're out their insurance deductible and that's it. Sorry, but your theory is wrong.