mrkite

Always wonder what is heel and toe... anyone can tell me what this is exactly?

thanks

clorich

It's using your right foot to on the gas and brake at the same time. It's usually used while entering a turn (clutch in) so you can rev the engine to the appropriate RPM to downshift and drive hard out of the corner without destabilizing the car.

legendaryCL98

isnt this what they where talking about in Initial D? the whole heel toe heel toe action to drift around a turn... i dunno.. sounds kinda hard and to me...

Gilgamesh

Its not BS...its how you downshift under hard braking and don't upset the car, the idea with hard braking and cornering is that the car is at its very limit of grip. If you jerk on the downshift you could well upset that and lose control. Typically, people do it on the road for practice more than anything, but it comes in handy if you track the car, and if you typically keep your car right on the edge while driving. And it is very difficult on some cars where the pedal spacing is not set up well enough for it...(G35c...I have so much trouble doing it efficiently in that car, much harder than my dad's C5) But some aftermarket pedals will fix that. It feels great when you are on a hard cornerf, and even though you don't need to, you click off a perfect heel/toe...try it sometime.

proaudio22

It's defenitly valid method. Some F1 drivers actually take it one step further and use it for brake+accel at the same time. If you'll notice their pedal spacing next time you see a pic, there is about 1/2" btwn the two.

jimcol711

uugh, thank god for automatic transmissions, what a bunch of BS you stick drivers have to deal with on a regular basis. i know how to drive stick but just flat out choose not too. unless i had a serious sports car, i would never even consider a manual. theres no point. and id definately never want a manual as a daily driver. it amazes me all these people driving manual old toyotas or ford escorts or crappy cars and its like, jesus, there is absolutely no gratification or enjoyment in driving that vehicle with a manual as opposed to a automatic, why bother??

legendaryCL98

and u cant eat and drive safely either!

BEETROOT

Are you guys serious? You must not have ever had a decent manual car...driving an auto is miserable. This cl-s is my first auto car and I thought it would be alright...but its really not half as much fun driving it as it would be with a stick shift. Its enough reason to make me trade in the car years earlier than I would if it were manual. You have much more control of the car and you get a better feel for the engine, plus its faster and infinitely more fun.

I'm really pissed at myself for buying an automatic semi-sports car...as you can probably tell.

edit - its really nice in traffic though, or when you want to eat in the car or talk on the phone...

Gilgamesh

Screw Autos, even on semi-sport cars (CL, G35, IS300) its just so much better, so much more control...and you right foot is doing a lot of work anyway...why not the left too?

proaudio22

Screw manuals - if it's slower, fuck that. Not to mention a pain in the ass for normal driving. SL55, E55, etc pwnz j00!

legendaryCL98

Gilgamesh

Those are some sweet cars, but I would like to see them with a 'row your own' option. Or at least something SMGish with a pedal-less clutch and no torque converter.

DeezNutz

i could party with some steering wheel paddles and a pedal-less clutch and be real happy SMG style!

other than that, manuals are so much more fun to drive than autos. i miss it a lot--didn't think i would when i bought my '01 CL-S. sport-shifting is lame in comparison.

BEETROOT

sport shifting sucks.


too bad theres no AMG cls.

chef chris

Frankly, I forgot how much a pain in the ass a stick actually is...and all the guys here blabbing about how much quicker it was than the auto...

I should've drove one for a while before I bought the 6 speed. The auto in the 02 is plenty quick for me & I work/live in town...

Don't get me wrong...when I was a spring chicken, I loved my 5 speeds....had several. But, it's just not practical anymore.

Anybody want a slighty used CLS...? only 1100 miles...

BEETROOT

I'll trade ya my 01 cls for it. Only 35k. Yours is a little newer, so I'll throw in the stereo, intake, and aluminum sills and we can call it even.

fuZzBaLL143

i only want to drive manual. it gives me something to do and its not that hard to eat drive and drive. just use one hand for steering and shift, the other for the burger and fries. i honestly hate autos, i know hate is a strong word but it sucks sooooo bad. heel toe on the cl is kinda weird since the pedals are so friggin far apart. on my del sol it was a breeze to do.

Slimey

...back to the question posed in this thread:

Heel/Toe refers to the ability to brake and play with the throttle in a nearly simultaneous movement. This allows for precise control of engine speed and gearing during maneuvers such as turning or negotiating a tight curve in the road.

It is not difficult, and becomes essentially second nature after some practice. I will say that it is not necessary to know or practice this technique either. You can get by fine on your daily drives without it.

That being said, heel/toe and throttle blipping add a bit of fun to the overall driving experience...and after all this is why most of us that drive manual cars chose the manual set-up -- we like to have some fun when we drive. We actually enjoy the driving experience by becoming an integral connection between engine and road.

Here's a nice write-up I found some time ago that explains heel/toe well.

Slimey

Maybe you should review this thread. The autovation pedals make heel/toe a lot easier.

mrkite

thanks for your explications on what is heel and toe.

I love a manual a lot more than automatic... I had a 2001 cl-s and now have a 2003 cl-s6... and there's a huge difference when you use the full potential of the car.

In auto... the car was pretty slow when it would get to 4th gear at 180km/h... going over 200 took a lot of time... with the manual... the gearing is perfect and going over 200km/h is a breeze. And with the manual you get the helical slip-diffential, and I never thought but this really really makes a difference in turns... you can take any turn so much quicker.

and the manual doesn't seem to blow up all the time... after 2 years was in my 3rd auto trans.

zigzagzig

really, the only time auto is good is in heavy traffic, and when you need one hand free

mrkite

anyway, the cl-s manual trans is so easy and you can shift so fast you barely take your hand off the steering... it quickly becomes second nature... i love it

I can eat or talk on the cell phone and the shifting doesn't bother me a bit

scalbert

If you prefer an automatic because of medical reasons or just laziness :P that is fine. But without a doubt, a manual is a much greater experience. We are all on here because we enjoy driving cars; the manual is the epitome of it. It gives complete control of the powertrain allowing you to be where you want and when you want in the rev band for all occasion; including in traffic. I hate being in traffic and waiting for a down shift or for the TC to spool to get the momentum to move over a lane quickly. With the manual I hold it in the gear I want and the car reacts when throttle is applied.

If you really want to be messing with food, mobile phone, yourself, etc. just get the supercharger and put it in a higher gear. It provides the additional grunt to allow you to pull decently as low as 1500 RPM if needed.

BTW, my wife even prefers driving manuals to the point where we will most likely get rid of her '03 RX300 (with 5k miles) for one of the upcoming X3 3.0i with a 6-Speed.

Shawn S

I, along with any other experienced manual driver agree with you wholeheartedly, but you’re going to have a hard time convincing some of these inexperienced SLUSH-BOX drivers what they’re missing.

There sure is a lot of misinformation given in this thread, but I don’t have the time or initiative to correct it all.

Shawn S

gto2050

Ahhhh..... why is youth always wasted on the young?

gto2050

Shawn, I like your new avi!

KissMy_Type_S

I cant even believe that this arguement has gone on this long. Basically as scalbert stated driving auto outta laziness is one thing but to try and tell me that driving MT isnt a better driving experience looks like you need to learn how to drive stick better (or period).

aaron1017

I have a manual right now while I am young (19). Figure I might as well enjoy it while I can/will.

Gilgamesh

I love my manual...its not even that hard to live with, even in traffic. Like I said...SMG style is the only replacement I would consider, being that its automatic with a clutch (not a TC) Clutch less manual is a misnomer, it actually ahs a clutch, just no pedal, but I probably do not need to tell the people here that.

Chief F1 Fan

Ummm, F1 drivers do NOT heel and toe any more since their cars' electronics blip the throttle for them (where do ya think the SMG "blip" comes from?) ALMS, NASCAR (yes, nascar), and I believe CART guys do heel/toe.

Bulldog01

I gave up my 528e with a manual in '98, cuz my back and knees were a mess. Now, I wish I had a manual again. My g/f's car ('04 Sunfire ) is a manual, and it's kinda fun to drive. Although, it sucks nutz in heavy traffic.

Shawn S

I have a BUM left knee from a skiing wipeout back in 1992.
It gives me problems once and a while.

Unless things improve or I get surgery, my next ride may have to be some kind of SMG system.

Shawn S

Gilgamesh

Why The SMG systems come an all sorts of cars that people woudl give random appendages to drive...I'd even consider paying more for a car than I do for rent if I could get into an M3...

SilverCL225hp

Automatics are way way more convenient and make it easier to learn driving.

Slimey

Maybe for you. A matter of opinion, I'd say.

scalbert

Convenient, certainly; but why drive a CL if convenience is required. It is a two door which lacks the convenience of a four door. It lacks the cargo capacity of an SUV which makes the CL not so convenient when hauling plants or lumber.

Easier to learn, yes; better to learn on, IMO no. Learning on a manual requires the driver to be more involved. This may place the beginning driver in a position of greater awareness and ultimate a better (safer) driver.

chef chris

Another definition for "Heel Toe It":

What a win-o does when he's lit to the gills...in order for him to walk straight.

jasonslyric00

All I know is, over half the V6's I can beat (i.e. Mustang, Cougar, Tiburon, etc), I can only do so if they are automatic.
If they are stick and the driver sucks, I may still get them, but if they are automatic, I can take most of them 9 times out of 10.
THAT'S why I do it.
That and the fact that I LOVE coming through a corner and downshifting it, flooring the gas and playing SCCA...there's a delay in autos that you have to get past...AAAAAUGH.

nokio

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm isnt it camber?!?!?!?! what the hell are you all talkin about

quikcls

i couldn't a said it better myself