Tuning blues and issues with 6 lbs of boost / FIC.
#1
Tuning blues and issues with 6 lbs of boost / FIC.
Ok, I need to find some info out, looks like I don't know whyat tuner to believe. I had one guy from RPM systems who was supposed to be really good and familliar with the j32 tune my car. long story short, the belt was slipping and he tuned it with a mechanically incorrect boost level reading of 4.5 lbs instead of 6.
So I took the car to T & R racing, a place in queens who seem like they know their shit, they fixed the belt, installed the pulley, even changed the alternator belt and pulled the blower then put it back with no problem. nice people and gave me confidence. They dynoed the car and tuned it with the FIC to put down 280 hp at the wheels. Everything was great. Drove the car and it was much faster, I was on cloud nine for a day.
Next day I threw a CEL and the wideband numbers were all over the place. I thought I heard a little detonation too. Almost liek the car's tune completely went haywire on it's own. So I asked RPM Systems about the ESM that was in the car from before his tune and he said he left it in there with the FIC. I was confused why he would do that, really confused since there are two systems in the car, the ESM and the FIC-6. How could this be and is this what was causing the second tune by T & R racing to go haywire the next day?
I drive nice and easy after that and the CEL went away on it's own. IT read P0131, O2 sensor circuit low voltage (bank 1, sensor 1). But this went away on it's own. The O2 numbers were still inconsistent too.
So now I'm trying to figure out if there is somewhere I can go to tune the damn car and make everything that is potentially screwed up normal and working. I mean I'm only going 6 lbs of boost, and it's not like I'm the only one. If I have to go Emanage blue to solve the issue, I will, but I really want to straighten it out and get my car running properly without the worry of doing damage to the car. Anybody know where I can go?
Also, who's runnign 6 lbs of boost and how are you managing the Fuel / Air mixture?
Lastly, what kind of O2 readings are you getting during idle, crusing and WOT?
So I took the car to T & R racing, a place in queens who seem like they know their shit, they fixed the belt, installed the pulley, even changed the alternator belt and pulled the blower then put it back with no problem. nice people and gave me confidence. They dynoed the car and tuned it with the FIC to put down 280 hp at the wheels. Everything was great. Drove the car and it was much faster, I was on cloud nine for a day.
Next day I threw a CEL and the wideband numbers were all over the place. I thought I heard a little detonation too. Almost liek the car's tune completely went haywire on it's own. So I asked RPM Systems about the ESM that was in the car from before his tune and he said he left it in there with the FIC. I was confused why he would do that, really confused since there are two systems in the car, the ESM and the FIC-6. How could this be and is this what was causing the second tune by T & R racing to go haywire the next day?
I drive nice and easy after that and the CEL went away on it's own. IT read P0131, O2 sensor circuit low voltage (bank 1, sensor 1). But this went away on it's own. The O2 numbers were still inconsistent too.
So now I'm trying to figure out if there is somewhere I can go to tune the damn car and make everything that is potentially screwed up normal and working. I mean I'm only going 6 lbs of boost, and it's not like I'm the only one. If I have to go Emanage blue to solve the issue, I will, but I really want to straighten it out and get my car running properly without the worry of doing damage to the car. Anybody know where I can go?
Also, who's runnign 6 lbs of boost and how are you managing the Fuel / Air mixture?
Lastly, what kind of O2 readings are you getting during idle, crusing and WOT?
Last edited by rondog; 05-04-2010 at 08:24 PM.
#2
Lives in Boost
Sorry to hear your troubles.
I got the same O2 code and replaced the front (before the cat) O2 sensor and A/F went back to normal. It's at about 14.7-15 at idle. If you still have trouble after doing that you might want to consider getting some defoulers.
I increased the fuel pressure to richen things up at WOT until I can get tuned.
I got the same O2 code and replaced the front (before the cat) O2 sensor and A/F went back to normal. It's at about 14.7-15 at idle. If you still have trouble after doing that you might want to consider getting some defoulers.
I increased the fuel pressure to richen things up at WOT until I can get tuned.
#3
Sorry to hear your troubles.
I got the same O2 code and replaced the front (before the cat) O2 sensor and A/F went back to normal. It's at about 14.7-15 at idle. If you still have trouble after doing that you might want to consider getting some defoulers.
I increased the fuel pressure to richen things up at WOT until I can get tuned.
I got the same O2 code and replaced the front (before the cat) O2 sensor and A/F went back to normal. It's at about 14.7-15 at idle. If you still have trouble after doing that you might want to consider getting some defoulers.
I increased the fuel pressure to richen things up at WOT until I can get tuned.
#4
Lives in Boost
As far as the comptech ESM and the FIC working together, I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure that those that were using emanage removed the comptech ESM but i'm not 100% on that.
#7
Yeah, I've been driving like a granny lately. I thought p0131 could also be a too lean readout rather than a faulty O2 sensor. The CEL went away on it's own, and didn't come back, but the readings were still crazy on the Wideband. I already spent so much money on un-needed items like the alternator HBP and the RDX injectors. I don't want to just keep on dumping money into somethign that is not certainly needed. Maybe i'll have the voltage and function of the O2 sensor checked fist to make sure it needs to be changed. And would it turn off and not come back on if it was faulty?
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#8
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I remember reading a thread (possibly JProy?) that had the ESM installed while tuning on the FIC and it wasnt working properly. But definitely replace the O2 sensor.
Talk to NVA-AV6 about it. Im sure he can help you out. He makes wire harnesses for the FICs.
Talk to NVA-AV6 about it. Im sure he can help you out. He makes wire harnesses for the FICs.
#10
Yeah, I think I'm going to change the O2 sensor and take out the ESM. I'll have my shop (T & R Racing) soder the connectors and inspect everything to make sure there is no simple quirks about the whole deal. We already have the tune, but it's just evolving into crap becasue of the bad O2 sensor and/or the ESM. God willing this will clear up, I feel like half a person without my car running smoothly.
#11
Pro
iTrader: (2)
correct me if im wrong, the ESM only adjusts voltage clamp so the map sensor doesn't see boost?
In Emanage Blue, the option is called "boost limiter cut" and you just replace that value with between 2.7 - 2.88?
I only tuned 70% throttle and up so afr reads 11.7 ish ( My wideband sensor is broken =/). My idle is 14.7 - 14.8
And I don't know if you guys get this as well but, when I drive normally. My afr fluctuates from 12-14
In Emanage Blue, the option is called "boost limiter cut" and you just replace that value with between 2.7 - 2.88?
I only tuned 70% throttle and up so afr reads 11.7 ish ( My wideband sensor is broken =/). My idle is 14.7 - 14.8
And I don't know if you guys get this as well but, when I drive normally. My afr fluctuates from 12-14
#12
My numbers vary from 12-16 when normally driving no matter what the FIC is tuned to, thats why I hoipe its a bad primary bank one sensor one O2 sensor.
So nobody running the 6 lbs of boost or higher has any feedback on what their A/F numbers are reading on the wideband, or what is being used to tune?
So nobody running the 6 lbs of boost or higher has any feedback on what their A/F numbers are reading on the wideband, or what is being used to tune?
#15
I got the Shifts
iTrader: (5)
during open loop (part throttle) the car will adjust AFR normally
during closed loop (WOT) is what you tune for, this adjust the afr to a safe amount for boost (12.8)
during idle you should be about as lean or stoich as possible. some cars will hit 17.1 at idle and some will idle around 15-16 to save fuel.
id prefer a 14 during idle because im a nut
during closed loop (WOT) is what you tune for, this adjust the afr to a safe amount for boost (12.8)
during idle you should be about as lean or stoich as possible. some cars will hit 17.1 at idle and some will idle around 15-16 to save fuel.
id prefer a 14 during idle because im a nut
#16
during open loop (part throttle) the car will adjust AFR normally
during closed loop (WOT) is what you tune for, this adjust the afr to a safe amount for boost (12.8)
during idle you should be about as lean or stoich as possible. some cars will hit 17.1 at idle and some will idle around 15-16 to save fuel.
id prefer a 14 during idle because im a nut
during closed loop (WOT) is what you tune for, this adjust the afr to a safe amount for boost (12.8)
during idle you should be about as lean or stoich as possible. some cars will hit 17.1 at idle and some will idle around 15-16 to save fuel.
id prefer a 14 during idle because im a nut
#18
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Under normal driving (holding speed, not accelerating), Im between 14-15. Under part throttle accelleration its between 13.5-14.3. At WOT its low 12.2-12.9.
Granted, I am all motor so under WOT you want to be in the 10s-11s.
Granted, I am all motor so under WOT you want to be in the 10s-11s.
#19
Everybody i spoke to told me between 14.5-15.8 is fine for partial throttle.
Another problem I am experiencing is either a loose heatshield or some sort of harmonic resonance at WOT at higher RPMS for a second right before redline. Bottom line, I want to get the whole thing straightened out. hopefully the new O2 sensor will be the problem solver.
Another problem I am experiencing is either a loose heatshield or some sort of harmonic resonance at WOT at higher RPMS for a second right before redline. Bottom line, I want to get the whole thing straightened out. hopefully the new O2 sensor will be the problem solver.
Last edited by rondog; 05-07-2010 at 09:00 AM.
#20
B A N N E D
iTrader: (4)
first of all what others have said, drop down to only one tuner, going to be much less headaches when they are not cancelling each oth out and such
but also remember you gotta have the fic work in harmony with the stock ecu, other wise you are going to get codes
but anyways i don't think the O2 is bad, i think they are trying to richen up the mixture too much with the skew feature of the fic, and the ecu is seeing the voltage drop too low, when the fic kicks in, which is flagging it as bad
maybe try getting on it a little again (into boost), and watch those numbers closely, after the ecu has had a couple of days to learn the new tune (i think it will have probably detuned it by now, the wounders of the modern ecu and OBD2
)
but also remember you gotta have the fic work in harmony with the stock ecu, other wise you are going to get codes
but anyways i don't think the O2 is bad, i think they are trying to richen up the mixture too much with the skew feature of the fic, and the ecu is seeing the voltage drop too low, when the fic kicks in, which is flagging it as bad
maybe try getting on it a little again (into boost), and watch those numbers closely, after the ecu has had a couple of days to learn the new tune (i think it will have probably detuned it by now, the wounders of the modern ecu and OBD2
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
Last edited by friesm2000; 05-07-2010 at 10:49 PM.
#22
Yeah, I have a boost gauge, the AEM UEGO and fuel pressure gauge. It richens up soemtimes to 12, even 11 when I'm just cruising or in idle. I changed the O2 sensor and it seems exactly the same after about a day of driving. I already scheduled the tuner to take a look at it, and test for detonation with an electronic listening device. They also have a Dyno. So the car goes back on monday and hopefully this will be the end of it. If not, I'm dropping back down to 3 lbs of boost oooooor I'll get them to install a Meth injection kit.
Besides the Widband O2 numbers be whacky, I think the only other thing is the raspy noise which I hope is not detonation. Once those two things are eliminated, I'll be happy again and able to enjoy the car. In the meantime, I've been just keeping it under 3k rpm.
I wish someone else had the FIC with a tune so I could just drop the new tune in and see if there is a difference.
Besides the Widband O2 numbers be whacky, I think the only other thing is the raspy noise which I hope is not detonation. Once those two things are eliminated, I'll be happy again and able to enjoy the car. In the meantime, I've been just keeping it under 3k rpm.
I wish someone else had the FIC with a tune so I could just drop the new tune in and see if there is a difference.
#23
good news and bad news...
The noise I thought was detonation was not that at all, car was actually running fine once we got the ESM out and entered the voltage info into the FIC.
Actually, it was the blower. That noise turned out to be worn out bearings at the end of the shaft right before the pulley. Around 5500 rpms I would hear a raspy tingy sound, sorta plasticy crackling. I'm going to see about getting the blower remanufactured or get another one and selling this one to someone for cheap. Rebuilding it would only cost $350-$500, so that would be a great deal if I sold it for $1000. So now the blower has to come out and get sent to Cali or something. I'm sorta happy this is the case, and that the motor for the car is in good shape.
The noise I thought was detonation was not that at all, car was actually running fine once we got the ESM out and entered the voltage info into the FIC.
Actually, it was the blower. That noise turned out to be worn out bearings at the end of the shaft right before the pulley. Around 5500 rpms I would hear a raspy tingy sound, sorta plasticy crackling. I'm going to see about getting the blower remanufactured or get another one and selling this one to someone for cheap. Rebuilding it would only cost $350-$500, so that would be a great deal if I sold it for $1000. So now the blower has to come out and get sent to Cali or something. I'm sorta happy this is the case, and that the motor for the car is in good shape.
#24
B A N N E D
iTrader: (4)
good news and bad news...
The noise I thought was detonation was not that at all, car was actually running fine once we got the ESM out and entered the voltage info into the FIC.
Actually, it was the blower. That noise turned out to be worn out bearings at the end of the shaft right before the pulley. Around 5500 rpms I would hear a raspy tingy sound, sorta plasticy crackling. I'm going to see about getting the blower remanufactured or get another one and selling this one to someone for cheap. Rebuilding it would only cost $350-$500, so that would be a great deal if I sold it for $1000. So now the blower has to come out and get sent to Cali or something. I'm sorta happy this is the case, and that the motor for the car is in good shape.
The noise I thought was detonation was not that at all, car was actually running fine once we got the ESM out and entered the voltage info into the FIC.
Actually, it was the blower. That noise turned out to be worn out bearings at the end of the shaft right before the pulley. Around 5500 rpms I would hear a raspy tingy sound, sorta plasticy crackling. I'm going to see about getting the blower remanufactured or get another one and selling this one to someone for cheap. Rebuilding it would only cost $350-$500, so that would be a great deal if I sold it for $1000. So now the blower has to come out and get sent to Cali or something. I'm sorta happy this is the case, and that the motor for the car is in good shape.
#27
B A N N E D
iTrader: (4)
![ugh](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ugh.gif)
then as rajca said, just get a new bearing, you might have to pull it apart first though, but ALL bearings WORLDWIDE are standardrized, so you can be in another country, look at the race number (part#), and order it from any manufacture, and have it fit perfectly
#29
I might just do that, but I need a source for the bearings, every supercharger parts supplier has told me they only rebuild them, they don't sell the parts. Anyway, the blower's coming out today and car is going back to NA until I can fix the problem.
As for the tune, the ESM comes out at that point, and the FIC will get slightly recalibrated without the interference fo the ESM voltage settings. I'll have them retune when the blower goes back in. most likely with 3" exhasut piping and a slightly larger throttle body opening.
I feel alot better and realize I may have been a bit paranoid, but at least the problem has been identified and it's already being addressed.
As for the tune, the ESM comes out at that point, and the FIC will get slightly recalibrated without the interference fo the ESM voltage settings. I'll have them retune when the blower goes back in. most likely with 3" exhasut piping and a slightly larger throttle body opening.
I feel alot better and realize I may have been a bit paranoid, but at least the problem has been identified and it's already being addressed.
#31
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Ebay is your friend.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Eaton...#ht_841wt_1165
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Eaton...#ht_500wt_1182
Search Eaton M62 and youll find rebuild kits all over the net.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Eaton...#ht_841wt_1165
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Eaton...#ht_500wt_1182
Search Eaton M62 and youll find rebuild kits all over the net.
#32
B A N N E D
iTrader: (4)
I might just do that, but I need a source for the bearings, every supercharger parts supplier has told me they only rebuild them, they don't sell the parts. Anyway, the blower's coming out today and car is going back to NA until I can fix the problem.
As for the tune, the ESM comes out at that point, and the FIC will get slightly recalibrated without the interference fo the ESM voltage settings. I'll have them retune when the blower goes back in. most likely with 3" exhasut piping and a slightly larger throttle body opening.
I feel alot better and realize I may have been a bit paranoid, but at least the problem has been identified and it's already being addressed.
As for the tune, the ESM comes out at that point, and the FIC will get slightly recalibrated without the interference fo the ESM voltage settings. I'll have them retune when the blower goes back in. most likely with 3" exhasut piping and a slightly larger throttle body opening.
I feel alot better and realize I may have been a bit paranoid, but at least the problem has been identified and it's already being addressed.
anyways Timkin or NRG (alot of OEM bearings are made by them) bearings are good
#34
Well, I spoke to Magnuson and a few other places, looks like the small shards of metal from the worn out chrome on the old bearings can cause premature failure of the replacements. Also, I really need to get this blower remanufactured to amke sure the coating on the rotors isn't bad. I think its time to do it right and get the most out of the blower. Sending it to Magnuson on friday. Shoudl cost between $350-$950 depoending on the amount of work needed.
Unless someone wants to buy it off me for $1000 and I would buy a new one for $1800. You would just have to get the parts replaced and get the other parts of the blower to amke it work. probably come out to $2500 to have a fully operable blower rebuilt and ready to go.
Unless someone wants to buy it off me for $1000 and I would buy a new one for $1800. You would just have to get the parts replaced and get the other parts of the blower to amke it work. probably come out to $2500 to have a fully operable blower rebuilt and ready to go.
#36
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
$1k is way too much for an M62. Ive seen rebuilt units go for $750.
#37
To me it's worth the extra $150 to have it done the right way the first time. After they get the blower, they will reevaluate it, it might only be $350 for all I know. We'll see, fingers crossed!
#38
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Oh, I wasn't knocking your decision to get it rebuilt by them. I would have done the same thing.
#40
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (1)
![ugh](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ugh.gif)
Good luck!