Is this true about pulley's?
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Is this true about pulley's?
I need some input on this one.......i dont know if the same things happens with the AEM pulley's for the CL-S but ne way.........a couple of my friends all who have muscle cars like cobra's and ws6's said pulleys werent a good idea when i brought up possibly putting them on the cl-s. They said pulleys mess with car in the long run and you run into problems like your lights dimming and electrical problems. Is this true? Can you guys give me some advice on the pros and cons? Thanks
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well from my experience i would stay away from underdrive pulleys
decent in the additional power range but could cause problems. i had AEM under drive pulleys for my old accord v6 and it killed the alternator.
and after hearing some horror stories i just dont believe its worth investing in one
sidemarker
decent in the additional power range but could cause problems. i had AEM under drive pulleys for my old accord v6 and it killed the alternator.
and after hearing some horror stories i just dont believe its worth investing in one
sidemarker
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Originally Posted by sidemarker
well from my experience i would stay away from underdrive pulleys
decent in the additional power range but could cause problems. i had AEM under drive pulleys for my old accord v6 and it killed the alternator.
and after hearing some horror stories i just dont believe its worth investing in one
sidemarker
decent in the additional power range but could cause problems. i had AEM under drive pulleys for my old accord v6 and it killed the alternator.
and after hearing some horror stories i just dont believe its worth investing in one
sidemarker
thanks for the advice, if you dont mind what were some horror stories you heard about?
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Originally Posted by kegger
thanks for the advice, if you dont mind what were some horror stories you heard about?
sidemarker
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Originally Posted by optionet
I didnt put pulley in my CL-S, but when I had it on my civic, it gives a lilttle bit higher power, but the installer told me it will wear teh belts faster
#7
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I ran AEM pullies for over a year. Never had ANY problems. No killed alternator, no electrc problems(& I have a sub) The AEM ones are only power steering & alternator. The UR pullies include those as well as a crank pully. The UR ones get more power gains. It's true on some cars underdrive pullies are not a good idea. However on the CLS or TLS you will not have a problem. The AEM ones I had installed dyno'd only 2HP & 2tq over my baseline. The UR ones dyno like 8 or so HP.
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I had pulleys before my S/C. They dropped my 1/4 mile time 1 tenth = roughly 10-12whp. Good modification with gains throughout the powerband.
3) "How do Unorthodox Racing pulleys give me more power?"
Weight loss is the most critical factor in making, or more accurately, relesing Horsepower! Each pound of weight taken off the engines rotating assembly is worth approximately 2.7HP and the figure increases dramatically with forced induction, nitrous, VTEC and increased RPM's. Only 15-20% of the gains seen from our pulleys comes from the underdriving. The diameter of each of our crank pulleys is reduced up to 20%. We tailor the exact amount of underdrive to each vehicle based on factory specified accessory performance. We fully maintain all accessory output minimums like air conditioning efficiency, power steering feel, and voltage (minimum allowable voltage 12v) even at idle with everything electrical on in the car. There are no adverse effects from using any of our pulley versions. Bolt them on and forget about them, then just follow your vehicles normal maintenance schedule.
4) "Is my crank pulley a harmonic/torsional/vibration damper or a harmonic balancer?"
People are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some V6 / V8 engines. "Harmonic Balancer" is a term that is used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper, hence the merging of the two terms. None of the applications that we offer utilize a counterweight as part of the pulley as these engines are internally balanced.
The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley that looks similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself, the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to note that in these applications, this elastomer is somewhat inadequate in size, as well as life span, to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some of the imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda, the Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's, to mention a few. This is not to say that with our pulleys you will hear a ton of noise or feel more vibration from your engine compartment. Most who have installed and driven a vehicle with our pulleys will notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is a natural result of replacing the heavy steel crank pulley with a CNC-machined aluminum pulley. NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable.
The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as stroke, displacement, inline, V configurations, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur.
Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about the pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand the crank pulleys better.
6) "Will these pulleys cause premature engine bearing wear?"
This is a fear many prospective owners have and is a valid concern since we are dealing directly with the rotating assembly. Fortunately it is another urban myth with no basis in fact. The fact is that our pulleys have the opposite effect on engine bearings. The combination of tight tolerances, quality control, perfect balance, and dramatic weight loss versus the stock pulleys reduces stress loads on your engine, extending the total service life you can expect from your engine. Engine bearing problems are purely associated to poor engine maintenance, use of heavier than factory recommended oils, improper engine building practices (which includes poor balancing), excessively revving engines when they are cold, and owners expecting their factory oil pumps to handle engine power outputs beyond 3, 4, even 5+ times the stock power levels.
7) "Will the pulleys void my factory warrantee?"
Actually the answer is fairly complex but has a simple solution. Automobile manufacturers state if a specific component is not designed by them or an OEM supplier specifically for use on your vehicle from the factory, then the component voids your warrantee. This area has been a hotbed of controversy for years. SEMA has been working feverishly to protect owner’s rights on this issue because many aftermarket products are viable replacements, if not better in design and function, than the factory component.
UNORTHODOX RACING pulleys are one of many products, from air intakes to computer chips to exhaust systems, that fall into this category. The simple truth is that most dealers are looking for any excuse to avoid working on vehicles modified with aftermarket performance parts.
The solution is the MAGNUSON-MOSS WARRANTY IMPROVEMENT ACT, which requires that the dealer or OEM prove that the aftermarket part you have purchased and are using actually caused a failure or problem with the vehicle. So if your dealer gives you a hard time let him know you are aware of your rights and they should back down quickly.
The key is that owners must be aware that these situations can arise and this is clearly stated in the back of their owner’s manual that non-OEM products void the manufacturer warrantee. This, not surprisingly, includes performance parts designed by car manufacturers (i.e. Ford Motorsports, TRD, Mazda Competition and GM Performance to name a few).
14) "Can I use the underdrive pulleys if I have a high wattage stereo system?"
All of the pulleys allow stereo systems of up to approximately 600 watts RMS. If the stereo system in question is above that wattage amount then the owner has two options. They can purchase our stock or oversize diameter crank pulley or we can make a custom alternator pulley, which will be smaller in diameter and will increase the voltage output.
Capacitors are a smart addition as they store the power the amplifiers need for peak draw. Our stock diameter series used with capacitors allow the vehicle owner to achieve the cleanest and most powerful sound with no loss in voltage output. Another good option would be to install a second battery or batteries just for the stereo.
Weight loss is the most critical factor in making, or more accurately, relesing Horsepower! Each pound of weight taken off the engines rotating assembly is worth approximately 2.7HP and the figure increases dramatically with forced induction, nitrous, VTEC and increased RPM's. Only 15-20% of the gains seen from our pulleys comes from the underdriving. The diameter of each of our crank pulleys is reduced up to 20%. We tailor the exact amount of underdrive to each vehicle based on factory specified accessory performance. We fully maintain all accessory output minimums like air conditioning efficiency, power steering feel, and voltage (minimum allowable voltage 12v) even at idle with everything electrical on in the car. There are no adverse effects from using any of our pulley versions. Bolt them on and forget about them, then just follow your vehicles normal maintenance schedule.
4) "Is my crank pulley a harmonic/torsional/vibration damper or a harmonic balancer?"
People are getting their crank pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on some V6 / V8 engines. "Harmonic Balancer" is a term that is used loosely in the automotive industry. Technically, this type of device does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight cast into the damper, hence the merging of the two terms. None of the applications that we offer utilize a counterweight as part of the pulley as these engines are internally balanced.
The pulleys on most of the new import and smaller domestic engines have an elastomer (rubber ring) incorporated into the pulley that looks similar to a harmonic damper. The elastomer in the OEM pulley serves as an isolator, which is there to suppress natural vibration and noise from the engine itself, the A/C compressor, P/S pump, and alternator. This is what the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to noticeable noise and vibration in the passenger compartment. It is important to note that in these applications, this elastomer is somewhat inadequate in size, as well as life span, to act as an effective torsional damper. If you look at the pulleys on some of the imports there is no rubber to be found at all. We have samples of these, mostly from Acura/Honda, the Nissan Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L VW's, to mention a few. This is not to say that with our pulleys you will hear a ton of noise or feel more vibration from your engine compartment. Most who have installed and driven a vehicle with our pulleys will notice the engine actually feels smoother. This is a natural result of replacing the heavy steel crank pulley with a CNC-machined aluminum pulley. NVH is variable and unique to every car. NVH will increase with the installation of an aftermarket intake and/or exhaust, for example. Think of OEM intake systems in newer cars, they use baffles and resonators in the intake to quiet all the intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate these resonators and create dramatic increases in engine noise from the throttle opening and closing. So to most tuners, certain types of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable.
The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to protect against crank failure from torsional movement. This is not necessary in most modern engines because of the many advances in engine design and materials. Factors such as stroke, displacement, inline, V configurations, power output, etc., do determine when and how these harmonics and torsional movements occur.
Again, there is a lot of internet hearsay about the pulleys. When engine problems occur, too often people are quick to blame the pulley first, rather than taking the time to look logically into why there was a problem. We hope that after reading this you will understand the crank pulleys better.
6) "Will these pulleys cause premature engine bearing wear?"
This is a fear many prospective owners have and is a valid concern since we are dealing directly with the rotating assembly. Fortunately it is another urban myth with no basis in fact. The fact is that our pulleys have the opposite effect on engine bearings. The combination of tight tolerances, quality control, perfect balance, and dramatic weight loss versus the stock pulleys reduces stress loads on your engine, extending the total service life you can expect from your engine. Engine bearing problems are purely associated to poor engine maintenance, use of heavier than factory recommended oils, improper engine building practices (which includes poor balancing), excessively revving engines when they are cold, and owners expecting their factory oil pumps to handle engine power outputs beyond 3, 4, even 5+ times the stock power levels.
7) "Will the pulleys void my factory warrantee?"
Actually the answer is fairly complex but has a simple solution. Automobile manufacturers state if a specific component is not designed by them or an OEM supplier specifically for use on your vehicle from the factory, then the component voids your warrantee. This area has been a hotbed of controversy for years. SEMA has been working feverishly to protect owner’s rights on this issue because many aftermarket products are viable replacements, if not better in design and function, than the factory component.
UNORTHODOX RACING pulleys are one of many products, from air intakes to computer chips to exhaust systems, that fall into this category. The simple truth is that most dealers are looking for any excuse to avoid working on vehicles modified with aftermarket performance parts.
The solution is the MAGNUSON-MOSS WARRANTY IMPROVEMENT ACT, which requires that the dealer or OEM prove that the aftermarket part you have purchased and are using actually caused a failure or problem with the vehicle. So if your dealer gives you a hard time let him know you are aware of your rights and they should back down quickly.
The key is that owners must be aware that these situations can arise and this is clearly stated in the back of their owner’s manual that non-OEM products void the manufacturer warrantee. This, not surprisingly, includes performance parts designed by car manufacturers (i.e. Ford Motorsports, TRD, Mazda Competition and GM Performance to name a few).
14) "Can I use the underdrive pulleys if I have a high wattage stereo system?"
All of the pulleys allow stereo systems of up to approximately 600 watts RMS. If the stereo system in question is above that wattage amount then the owner has two options. They can purchase our stock or oversize diameter crank pulley or we can make a custom alternator pulley, which will be smaller in diameter and will increase the voltage output.
Capacitors are a smart addition as they store the power the amplifiers need for peak draw. Our stock diameter series used with capacitors allow the vehicle owner to achieve the cleanest and most powerful sound with no loss in voltage output. Another good option would be to install a second battery or batteries just for the stereo.
#9
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by sidemarker
well from my experience i would stay away from underdrive pulleys
decent in the additional power range but could cause problems. i had AEM under drive pulleys for my old accord v6 and it killed the alternator.
and after hearing some horror stories i just dont believe its worth investing in one
sidemarker
decent in the additional power range but could cause problems. i had AEM under drive pulleys for my old accord v6 and it killed the alternator.
and after hearing some horror stories i just dont believe its worth investing in one
sidemarker
#10
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
I had pulleys before my S/C. They dropped my 1/4 mile time 1 tenth = roughly 10-12whp. Good modification with gains throughout the powerband.
Josh
Excelerate LLC
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I have had my crank pulley on for 30k miles with no problems. This has been discussed many times with the same resluts.
Those people "afraid" of modifications, the people whose modified cars have had problems do not like them.
Those of us who haven't had any problems enjoy the extra power.
Listen to someone who has had a problem with their car specifically because of the pulleys and listen to them.
Don't buy the "It's bad for your car because someone told me so." Do your own research.
Those people "afraid" of modifications, the people whose modified cars have had problems do not like them.
Those of us who haven't had any problems enjoy the extra power.
Listen to someone who has had a problem with their car specifically because of the pulleys and listen to them.
Don't buy the "It's bad for your car because someone told me so." Do your own research.
#12
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Originally Posted by farberstyle
I have had my crank pulley on for 30k miles with no problems. This has been discussed many times with the same resluts.
Those people "afraid" of modifications, the people whose modified cars have had problems do not like them.
Those of us who haven't had any problems enjoy the extra power.
Listen to someone who has had a problem with their car specifically because of the pulleys and listen to them.
Don't buy the "It's bad for your car because someone told me so." Do your own research.
Those people "afraid" of modifications, the people whose modified cars have had problems do not like them.
Those of us who haven't had any problems enjoy the extra power.
Listen to someone who has had a problem with their car specifically because of the pulleys and listen to them.
Don't buy the "It's bad for your car because someone told me so." Do your own research.
yeah i agree with you there and i have been tryin to do some research and i thought i would ask all of you because i trust your opinions and advice
#13
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by fuzzy02CLS
I ran AEM pullies for over a year. Never had ANY problems. No killed alternator, no electrc problems(& I have a sub) The AEM ones are only power steering & alternator. The UR pullies include those as well as a crank pully. The UR ones get more power gains. It's true on some cars underdrive pullies are not a good idea. However on the CLS or TLS you will not have a problem. The AEM ones I had installed dyno'd only 2HP & 2tq over my baseline. The UR ones dyno like 8 or so HP.
I dont know, but one year of use in my book is not consider a long term study and not a good reliabilty indicator.
#14
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->
Steve-
While most folks have had zero problems with the UR pulleys, and I don't know of a single instance of failure, I have some concerns about the "boilerplate" that they put up on their site (I am specifically referring to the quoted section you posted from their site).
If anyone is interested, they can look up UR pulleys and my name in the search engine and revisit this topic for the billionth time.
To be clear about this, I don't have any problems with you and other members touting the lack of problems with their UR pulleys.
Toyota for one, mentioned that they purposely build their damper to control torsional vibrations, yet UR took it upon themselves to completely ignore this fact and told me the factory didn't know what they were talking about.
UR told me they NEVER ran any tests to understand or test the crank and any vibrations -- and if they didn't do this, they have no way to divine what the manufacture's CAD/CAM/CAE tools and designers know about what's being used for vibration suppression and what's being for torsional vibration suppression.
IMO, they just crank out very light and well-made pulleys and don’t have a clue if the crank will explode and/or bearings will wear.
While most folks have had zero problems with the UR pulleys, and I don't know of a single instance of failure, I have some concerns about the "boilerplate" that they put up on their site (I am specifically referring to the quoted section you posted from their site).
If anyone is interested, they can look up UR pulleys and my name in the search engine and revisit this topic for the billionth time.
To be clear about this, I don't have any problems with you and other members touting the lack of problems with their UR pulleys.
Toyota for one, mentioned that they purposely build their damper to control torsional vibrations, yet UR took it upon themselves to completely ignore this fact and told me the factory didn't know what they were talking about.
UR told me they NEVER ran any tests to understand or test the crank and any vibrations -- and if they didn't do this, they have no way to divine what the manufacture's CAD/CAM/CAE tools and designers know about what's being used for vibration suppression and what's being for torsional vibration suppression.
IMO, they just crank out very light and well-made pulleys and don’t have a clue if the crank will explode and/or bearings will wear.
#15
Adventurist.
Like Eric said, that is biggest fear I have with the UR Crank. I have every ohter bolt on but I'm afraid of throwing this one on due to the vibration issue. I don't wan the inside of my engine turning to mush.....
#17
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Originally Posted by ou sig
for real, they sound like a good mod, but it makes me nervous when it comes to the insides of my engine!
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