Stone Headers: Please do NOT install before reading this post.
08-19-2003, 10:05 AM
#81
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Coppell, Texas, USA
Posts: 1,514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
remember my mech procedure is/was to torque the header pipe to the heads and then tried to match up the down pipe,,, I believe if we had loosen the header bolts we could have made up the inch,, 0.5 inch on both sides would have worked,,, now that we saw how far side one side is,,, it is so far off it looks impossible to align,, I tried to align it myself and couldn't,,, Now it's a money thing and how much time they want to play with this,, it's 95-100 in my garage and I might have to do this myself,, it's a $200 learning experiance we can all learn from. The data so far shows the manufacture is ok,,, just wish someone would measure a set of comptechs,,, HEY Jens take one of the shelf and measure them,,, PLEASE
08-19-2003, 10:06 AM
#82
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodstock, GA
Age: 53
Posts: 9,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Juker008
U shop is more concerned about the heads of the block than the headers?
U shop is more concerned about the heads of the block than the headers?
08-19-2003, 10:08 AM
#83
Happy CL-S Pilot
Thread Starter
The real concern would be breaking one of the engine studs! now that is a fuking real problem. This is why if the varaince is small... few mm ...it should be not be a problem. However, if it was like 20 mm, than the headers have to be corrected before installation. Hammer, torch, ratcheting strap etc...
08-19-2003, 10:09 AM
#84
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodstock, GA
Age: 53
Posts: 9,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by fender4
just wish someone would measure a set of comptechs,,, HEY Jens take one of the shelf and measure them,,, PLEASE
just wish someone would measure a set of comptechs,,, HEY Jens take one of the shelf and measure them,,, PLEASE
08-19-2003, 10:17 AM
#87
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Hellertown, Pa. USA
Age: 57
Posts: 20,014
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I’ve been quiet so far, but I’m gonna have to take the jimcol711 attitude on this one.
You guys are FAWKIN NUTS to be installing these ill-fitting headers on your car to save a few bucks.
Any install that requires attachment of a long rope to PULL the part into place for alignment and then cranking the SHIT out of the bolts is DOOMED FROM THE START.
You guys are gonna have cracked welds and leaking gaskets in no time.
Then you’re gonna have to rip it all apart and try again.
Jim C
Comptech =
PS…. Nice picture scalbert
You guys are FAWKIN NUTS to be installing these ill-fitting headers on your car to save a few bucks.
Any install that requires attachment of a long rope to PULL the part into place for alignment and then cranking the SHIT out of the bolts is DOOMED FROM THE START.
You guys are gonna have cracked welds and leaking gaskets in no time.
Then you’re gonna have to rip it all apart and try again.
Jim C
Comptech =
PS…. Nice picture scalbert
08-19-2003, 10:19 AM
#88
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodstock, GA
Age: 53
Posts: 9,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
The stock OEM headers are 0.5" off, by design, Acrua block's are not parallel.
The stock OEM headers are 0.5" off, by design, Acrua block's are not parallel.
The cylinders have to be parallel or else there is going to be hell to pay with the crank. Since the cylinders are parallel the combustion chamber will also be along with the valve train. So the only way for the exhaust ports not to be parallel is if the exhaust ports are different lengths; which I highly doubt.
So, I suspect the heads are parallel but maybe the stock exhaust manifold do not line up correctly.
I'll dig mine out of the closet tonight and measure it.
08-19-2003, 10:27 AM
#91
Happy CL-S Pilot
Thread Starter
Originally posted by Shawn S
....
You guys are FAWKIN NUTS to be installing these ill-fitting headers on your car to save a few bucks.
Any install that requires attachment of a long rope to PULL the part into place for alignment and then cranking the SHIT out of the bolts is DOOMED FROM THE START.
....
....
You guys are FAWKIN NUTS to be installing these ill-fitting headers on your car to save a few bucks.
Any install that requires attachment of a long rope to PULL the part into place for alignment and then cranking the SHIT out of the bolts is DOOMED FROM THE START.
....
I meant why the installer is not able to bend with mechanical force) the pipe to get it aligned before the installation!!!
08-19-2003, 10:31 AM
#92
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodstock, GA
Age: 53
Posts: 9,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by fender4
The shop is looking for a v6 (honda) short block so we can get to the bottom of this very parallel issue...
The shop is looking for a v6 (honda) short block so we can get to the bottom of this very parallel issue...
Where the discrepancy lies will need to be determined.
08-19-2003, 10:31 AM
#93
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Hellertown, Pa. USA
Age: 57
Posts: 20,014
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
This is not what I suggested
This is not what I suggested
My opinion still stands on the misalignment issue though.
Jim C
08-19-2003, 10:35 AM
#95
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Coppell, Texas, USA
Posts: 1,514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by scalbert
The Vee is parallel or else rods would be hitting the cylinder walls and stressing the crank.
Where the discrepancy lies will need to be determined.
The Vee is parallel or else rods would be hitting the cylinder walls and stressing the crank.
Where the discrepancy lies will need to be determined.
Ment a long block
08-19-2003, 10:37 AM
#96
Happy CL-S Pilot
Thread Starter
Originally posted by scalbert
The Vee is parallel or else rods would be hitting the cylinder walls and stressing the crank.
Where the discrepancy lies will need to be determined.
The Vee is parallel or else rods would be hitting the cylinder walls and stressing the crank.
Where the discrepancy lies will need to be determined.
Nashua.
08-19-2003, 10:44 AM
#97
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodstock, GA
Age: 53
Posts: 9,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
The block surface mating the the flanges is not paralled. I just measured the OEM headers. I believe that Acura did that because of the way the A-pipe's reear pipe is angled.
The block surface mating the the flanges is not paralled. I just measured the OEM headers. I believe that Acura did that because of the way the A-pipe's reear pipe is angled.
As I mentioned, I will pull the stock manifold tonight, measure, take pictures and post the results.
08-19-2003, 04:16 PM
#98
Acuraperformance.com
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Age: 47
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey guys, I just did my install this weekend and it went pretty well (even if it took me eleven hours by myself). However, now I have a strange rattle starting at 1800 RPM. At first I thought that it was my heat shield on my cat, but I took it off to see what would happen. It's still there! Help! This is driving me crazy.
08-19-2003, 04:22 PM
#99
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodstock, GA
Age: 53
Posts: 9,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just pulled my stock exhaust manifold and A-pipe and set them up. I took the following measurements and it turned out they are parallel.
As I restate, the stock heads and exhaust ports have to be parallel. If the heads were not parallel we would have major engine failures. If the heads were put on at an angle we would have major engine failures. If the engine Vee were not parallel it would not run. In other words, the exhaust ports have to be parallel.
I do not want to be the barer of bad news but I was genuinely curious as to how this could be off. So I had to take some measurements:
As I restate, the stock heads and exhaust ports have to be parallel. If the heads were not parallel we would have major engine failures. If the heads were put on at an angle we would have major engine failures. If the engine Vee were not parallel it would not run. In other words, the exhaust ports have to be parallel.
I do not want to be the barer of bad news but I was genuinely curious as to how this could be off. So I had to take some measurements:
08-19-2003, 04:35 PM
#101
Happy CL-S Pilot
Thread Starter
SCalbert should I take pics of the stock headers? unless I did somthing silly. one side was 17.5" and the second was 18". One thing I used a measuring tape not nice a square ruler like yours!
08-19-2003, 04:40 PM
#102
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodstock, GA
Age: 53
Posts: 9,431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
SCalbert should I take pics of the stock headers? unless I did somthing silly. one side was 17.5" and the second was 18". One thing I used a measuring tape not nice a square ruler like yours!
SCalbert should I take pics of the stock headers? unless I did somthing silly. one side was 17.5" and the second was 18". One thing I used a measuring tape not nice a square ruler like yours!
08-19-2003, 05:04 PM
#103
Happy CL-S Pilot
Thread Starter
Originally posted by black2k3
Hey guys, I just did my install this weekend and it went pretty well (even if it took me eleven hours by myself). However, now I have a strange rattle starting at 1800 RPM. At first I thought that it was my heat shield on my cat, but I took it off to see what would happen. It's still there! Help! This is driving me crazy.
Hey guys, I just did my install this weekend and it went pretty well (even if it took me eleven hours by myself). However, now I have a strange rattle starting at 1800 RPM. At first I thought that it was my heat shield on my cat, but I took it off to see what would happen. It's still there! Help! This is driving me crazy.
Nashua.
08-19-2003, 05:08 PM
#104
Happy CL-S Pilot
Thread Starter
Another note, The hole on A-pipe flange is 2X bigger than the the header hole. This is clearly to allow Leeway for the installation. I am taking pictures and will post soon.
08-19-2003, 05:27 PM
#105
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Coppell, Texas, USA
Posts: 1,514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hummmmmm very interesting,, looks to be about about size 9 1/2 foot,,, 
yes all engines are square so to speak,,, guess we are back to what are comptechs,,, I think Jens is on vacation,,, anybody know another source for a good comparison from this "GOLDEN ASSET"... If they are under this type of strain I will try again to put mine back on.
yes all engines are square so to speak,,, guess we are back to what are comptechs,,, I think Jens is on vacation,,, anybody know another source for a good comparison from this "GOLDEN ASSET"... If they are under this type of strain I will try again to put mine back on.
08-19-2003, 05:49 PM
#106
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Coppell, Texas, USA
Posts: 1,514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
looking back at my measurements my one side is 1/2 inch off the true line of 17.75in. sooo doing the math thing,,,thats 12.5 mm... or 6 mm side load each side,,, (metric is easier) not to bad at all,,, once the mounting flanges are torqued the load points is distributed around the six pipes,, right above the welds,,, even the torqued bolts will share some load (not sure)
08-19-2003, 05:56 PM
#107
Happy CL-S Pilot
Thread Starter
Ok here we go:
Finally, the puzzle why one side was 17.5" and other was 18.0" is solved. I now lean that the correct dimemsion is 17.75" (mid way and as measured by Scalbert).
Honda bored the A-pipe hole at least 2X bigger than the header hole as shown in the following pictures. This clearly to give leeway for the headers to fit and allow some variance forward. backward and angular too!. This way if there is mis-alignment it would not be a problem. So, clearly you can bore out the lower hole as Honda did.
Hole/Alignment pictures:
Overall Stock headers:
I also noted that the stock flex joint is super soft and you can bend it with one hand as it is shown in the following pcitures. I do not think the brand new SR flex joint is as soft. It may need just time to get broken-in. This is just my guess.
Finally, the puzzle why one side was 17.5" and other was 18.0" is solved. I now lean that the correct dimemsion is 17.75" (mid way and as measured by Scalbert).
Honda bored the A-pipe hole at least 2X bigger than the header hole as shown in the following pictures. This clearly to give leeway for the headers to fit and allow some variance forward. backward and angular too!. This way if there is mis-alignment it would not be a problem. So, clearly you can bore out the lower hole as Honda did.
Hole/Alignment pictures:
Overall Stock headers:
I also noted that the stock flex joint is super soft and you can bend it with one hand as it is shown in the following pcitures. I do not think the brand new SR flex joint is as soft. It may need just time to get broken-in. This is just my guess.
08-19-2003, 06:20 PM
#109
Happy CL-S Pilot
Thread Starter
Is it resoncance or vibrations?
if it is Vibration, I guess it is due to still stiff flex joint.
if it is Resonace sound, I guess it is due to sharp edges block the flow of exhaust and making a mooing sound.
if it is Vibration, I guess it is due to still stiff flex joint.
if it is Resonace sound, I guess it is due to sharp edges block the flow of exhaust and making a mooing sound.
08-19-2003, 06:31 PM
#111
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Coppell, Texas, USA
Posts: 1,514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
is both front and back holes bigger (ie all six holes,,,) very very interesting,,, I might do a little stress relief here,,, the more we dig the more we learn,,, here comptech! here comptech! where are you ???
08-19-2003, 06:35 PM
#112
Happy CL-S Pilot
Thread Starter
fender4, yes all six holes are bigger as shown... no wonder why I had like 0.5" difference!
Black2k3, it is the flex joint, it may need some time soften.
Black2k3, it is the flex joint, it may need some time soften.
08-19-2003, 06:37 PM
#113
Acuraperformance.com
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Age: 47
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does anyone know what is actually doing the rattling? Is it something inside the flex joint? Can I pick at the weave like the early CT headers? It's really embarassing..
08-19-2003, 06:42 PM
#114
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Coppell, Texas, USA
Posts: 1,514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by black2k3
Does anyone know what is actually doing the rattling? Is it something inside the flex joint? Can I pick at the weave like the early CT headers? It's really embarassing..
Does anyone know what is actually doing the rattling? Is it something inside the flex joint? Can I pick at the weave like the early CT headers? It's really embarassing..
first try putting a ring clamp on the flex and see if that makes it stop or change,,, this will let you know if it's the flex or not,,,
!
08-19-2003, 08:47 PM
#118
Acuraperformance.com
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Age: 47
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NEWS FLASH! Ok, so this will probably make me look pretty dumb, but after checking everything three times, (or so I thought) I finally fixed it.
MORAL: Your O2 sensor will rattle out if it is not SUPER tight.
Ok, let the hazing begin, but remember, this was my first header install
Oh, by the way, to all you Comptech die-hards, Stone Headers rule
MORAL: Your O2 sensor will rattle out if it is not SUPER tight.
Ok, let the hazing begin, but remember, this was my first header install
Oh, by the way, to all you Comptech die-hards, Stone Headers rule
08-19-2003, 10:57 PM
#120
GOD Of ACURA-CL.COM
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lexington, S.C.
Age: 41
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I dunno for sure but a friend and I spent around 10-12hrs trying to do this install and well Shit has hit the ceilling and I'm having it towed to a shop tommrow to get them to try to get it installed b/c I'm having some of the same problems as what yall are saying . I dunno maybe I'm not doing the install right and its my fault but shit just doesn't want to go on nice and snug . 