SCTL-SS

I just got a progress report on the tuning and it sounds (in part) very promising. The car is still a little rich on the top end. So we'll continue to back some of the fuel as we can. The temps right now are very cool so for it to be rich now would mean that it would only be richer or worse in the summer.

Apparently the car is(from their report) lets say...very BEASTLY. It does hit 10lbs. of boost up until 6K RPM and then it backs down to 8.5-9. For the road test/tuning there are 2 techs in the car the driver and the programmer. On one of their tuning runs they were doing 65 MPH and the programmer asked that full throttle to be applied. At that point the front tires broke loose, not a full burn out, but still some tire squeal(I still have to see/feel it to believe it). BTW: the tires are 245/45-17 Coopers(I believe once the GS-D3s go on that might not happen..the tire spin that is). They were both surprised and very impressed to the power output and how the both of them were pegged to their seats. One of them was a owner of a 900HP Mustang R drag car so very familiar to the "plenty of power" world.
I have personally seen 10LBs of boost behind the wheel but the car wasn't very happy about it and it didn't respond like that. It seems that going from 270cc injectors to the RCs 440 injectors has made all the difference in the world. There is quite a difference between the injectors not only in size but also in design-the 440 have a much more efficient spray pattern from its design.

We are still seeing CELs come on so we'll have to track them down, correct and eliminate them. Our goal once tuning is all complete is to get a 380-400 WHP dyno(or as close to it as possible), which would mean that it would be in the 530-550 crank HP range. With SSRs on and at least dry or regular ice in the reservoir that might be achievable.

I'm, once again hoping, to compete in the Battle of the Imports - April 10. Maybe the car can hit in the 12:7-12:9 category.

joedokes28

Impressive

Keep us posted on your progress

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Crazy. 2 more weeks and i'll be intercooled

Chemmech

Awesome upgrade. So are you using the Comptech fuel pump from the S/C'er kit? I was considering getting a better fuel pump, but it sounds like the 440's would be a much better choice.

SCTL-SS

We are, to this point, staying with the Comptech pump, it is after all a good one. Our aim is to actually increase HP/TQ while at the same time decreasing fuel presure. The larger 440s will help with that, to what level we'll just have to wait and see. We're also hoping to get rid of the FPR from Comptech as well.

Chemmech

If you can put together a kit, I'll buy one .

SCTL-SS

That is in the works. The wide band O2 that we are using is a $10,000 unit and it is portable. It's about the size of a very large shoe box. The one on the dyno wasn't working.
So, I'm really hoping to have it "super tuned" if that's possible.

allmotor_2000

Holy moly.... 10lbs - what kind of gas? You have to be detonating...

Chemmech

Yeah, a workable baseline E-Manage fuel map file would definately be a big part to getting it running right.

allmotor_2000

When you just correct for the larger injector-size.... how does it run?

Chemmech

After replacing my faulty water pump for the IC, I don't have any pinging either.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Would 370s been a better choice instead of the 440s? 440 is a pretty big jump up from 270.

SCTL-SS

I haven't been it yet. But according to the thechs it is really quick. Adjusting to the bigger injectors was the key all along. We still have the issue of the CELs. SO...I don't get the car back until they do all the final tuning and quess work. Up to this point it is running on 93 oct.

SCTL-SS

According from RC and the tuning shop 440 was what was recomended. The idea is that you could use all of the flexibilty of that large of an injector and really back of on fuel presure. I actually went on RCs web site and did their fuel calibartion tables and for the amount of power 500-550 range the 440s were right on the money. If the car was turbo the injector size would need to be in the 460-470 range, Their # for SC is 60 and 65 for turbo.

allmotor_2000

The problem with the E-manage is that it uses the MAP voltage to compensave for the larger injectors... as the E-manage cannot 'reduce' the pulse-width that the ECU supplies. Hence for the E-manage application, I somewhat prefer secondary injectors as you have total control.

SCTL-SS

In that case you might have something. Maybe that's why it is still on the rich side. We'll have to wait and see.
I'll keep youn guys posted as to the outcome.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

What washer/spring combination are you using in the FPR?

typeR

wonder if im running out of injector?

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Doubtful. When I had the UniChip tuned I saw the fuel in the program. Fuel was cut by close to 45% in VTEC to lean it out. I dropped it to 35% to keep it safe. You've got plenty left.

SCTL-SS

After talking to the shop today I was told that I could of probably gone even bigger. Perhaps 750-900cc, the tuner stated that the duty cycle even with these injectors is a little higher, especially at the higher RPMs, then what he would like it be. But at this point, it is what it is. Tomorrow a visit to the shop and more tuning.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

But you said you are already running rich up top?

What washer/spring are you running in the FPR?

SCTL-SS

I'm still using the one Scalbert sent me after the I/C install. It looks like because there may not be more adjustment with the E-manage and the 440s that we might have to stay with the FPR. If we had in fact installed bigger then 440s then we might be able to remove the FPR. It's the low duty cycle that is the desirable outcome and with that in mind, we may even be maxing-out these new injectors now. I'll be going to the shop later for another update.

poisx7

iTrader: (1)

93 oct
750-900cc
10 psi
750cc, this is carzy as it is but hey, i guess SB gotta do it, and it might well be u

i think i might need to take a class on forced inductions and air flow dynamics

scalbert

Sounds good Jorge, looks like things will be wrapping up here soon...

I'll need to schedule a special trip down to check out the beast.

sgmotoring

How is your idle quality on your car with 440cc injectors? Any engine light? RC eng check my injector and said my oem injectors were between 240-250CC? That was why I got 310cc without emanage at that time.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Yeah i'm surprised the e-manage can back those 440s down enough to idle smoothly.

scalbert

Never knew for sure until someone tried.

SCTL-SS

Idle seems OK, normal driving seems OK, Full throttle seems OK...ex: on their highway test wide open full throttle from 65 to 100 MPH took them in the neighborhood of 3 seconds, now that is FAST!!! they were shocked!! By comparison I did the same thing in my wifes car, a stock 3.2TL, in 3 seconds I was only able to go from 65 to 80.

Having said that, now part throttle up hill low RPM forth gear that is were the tuning issues/challenges are. They are working out the fuel map and in some cases having to increase band width and in others decrease it. Well...back to the tuning board.

BTW: Our oem injectors are raited at 270cc. It appears that, in some cases, there is great disparity in our stock injectors.

ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

It's amazing how many different opinions there are on the size of the stock injector. I'v got the word that they are 290's. i guess we have to think they are between 250-300? The more people experiment with this car and fuel delivery, the more convuluted it becomes. Take a look at almotors ride. When he put on his turbo, his car ran fine, but on the safe side he added the grenade(750cc injector) to the IM.

Yes, i'm curious how the car idle's too. is it as smooth as it was stock or does it have a baeb beab beab to it. (That's my own onomatopoeia description.)

Has anyone looked into the RL injectors as a possible replacement for ours. Just wondering if that injector is larger given the greater hp the car developes.

Where is sorrento Fl, I've been scratching my head on that one for a while. ORL area?

SCTL-SS

As for the idle I've been told it's OK. I haven't actually driven the car myself yet but the suspense is building. According to RC our injectors are 270. The difference in size may be due to poor or no calibration?? I know RC goes to great lengths to make sure they all match as closely as possible.

As for Sorrento it is located between 7 cow pastures. JK... it is north west of Orlando between Mt. Dora and Sanford. If you blink you might miss it if you drive too fast.

SCTL-SS

You're welcome any time.
After all, this is partly your project as well... "Frankenstein"

Due to inclement weather - rain all day Monday and today - there has'nt been any real opportunity for tuning. If tomorrow night is dry, there will be another attempt.

FYI: I did find out that the idle was a challenge. With these new injectors, the car kept wanting to stall. After much adjustment, it now idles fine at 1,000 rpm. So, it can be accomplished (the idle that is) even with these new 440's. In a sense, we have maxed out these injectors. Without the FPR the duty cycle is close to 100% at 3500-4500 rpm. With the FPR back on, it is in the 25-30% range. So, at this point we see no way of freeing ourselves from the FPR.

That's all for now. Hopefully will have more data after this weekend.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Can the e-manage increase the idle speed from 750 to 1,000 rpm? Is that how you accomplished it?

sgmotoring

RC took my injector and tested it, He told me it was 245CC! They also told me NSX only have 240CC! If I have known they were 270CC I would have gone with 370CC

scalbert

You didn't get the memo; the east coast injectors are larger and less subceptible to lunar phase magnetosis.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Yes but a flux capacitor could easily fix those issues which are exponentially increased during low tide.

sgmotoring

I really need to hit the books!

scalbert

But everyone knows that the primactial discronificator would be required to offset the inertial lunar candescense caused by the flux capacitor.

allmotor_2000

All you guys need rectal pacifiers!!

The stock squirters are ~240cc +/- 5cc. Keep in mind that these flow-rates
are measured at a typical 42psi.

So. If you run 240cc injectors at 80psi, then... they are the same as 330cc @ 42psi
If you run them at 100psi, then... they are the same as 370cc @ 42psi

Along the same vein, let's say you don't have the E-manage and want to run larger injectors.... you can reduce the fuel pressure (to a certain extent) to achieve this.

240cc @ 42psi ~= 300cc @ 30psi (actually it reduces to about 250cc, but that's fine).

SCTL-SS

I got another update yesterday.

As for the idle: It still sits near stock levels 750-800. I tried it when it was cold and that's why I said 1000(That is all that I've been permitted to do is just sit there and let it idle- )

Now for more injector thinking: We've all been under the impression of not going too big, but here is the rub: We have been getting data from a $10K portable lab grade O2. The O2 sensor location was drilled right before the cat so an excellent sorse for info. The wide band O2 has been giving us every conceivable engine parameter. And what was its findings? At max throttle the injectors were at 86% duty cycle(under sertain conditions and loads perhaps even higher), in other words we have run out of injector. Even RC says to stay below 80%. If any one is considering this in the future they may want to go with a 630, 750 or even a 900cc injector...X6 of course. The other benefit is that fuel pressures can remain low and then no need for FPR as well. There are some injectors 600+cc that function really well at low fuel pressures. Ex: Comptech found an injector for one of their project cars that was 625cc and under 10 lbs. of FP it still had a great spray pattern were some others just dribbled the fuel. The conclusion is this, given the opportunity to do it all over again we would have gone 900cc+ and be done with it.

E-manage: We are getting closer to the right map. We did have to back some timing in order to accommodate for the 10 lbs. of boost. Our focus is a street/race map. We are also considering maybe 1 or 2 more maps were such things would be considered: cold temps and or ice in the reservoir and or race fuel. We would have those on the lap top(Thanks Steve) and just plug it in and change it at the track or as needed.

I/C: They were doing several full throttle passes where they were at max boost levels. Once they got back they checked I/C and it was cool to the touch - very good. Incidentally they commented that all they could hear was the SC whine at 10 lbs. I do not have a single piece of stock exhaust so that says a lot about the SC.

As for the primactial discronificator: We opted not to go with it since the flux capacitor was on back order.

That's all for now.

Chemmech

Wow 900 cc ? That would require much more space than the ones you have right?