Juker008

I was looking into Energy Suspension Polyurethane bushings and wanted to know if they are worth getting.

I am thinking of upgrading to new aftermarket sways and wanted to ask u guys, while I'm at it should I upgrade to polyurethane sway bushings as well?

Also going to drop the car should I change out the bumpstops for the polyurethane ones?

Are there different compounds of polyurethane, in terms of stiffness and hardness?

Does anyone know of the places that can be replaced with polyurethane bushings?

I know that we have hydraulic motor mounts but is there a way to upgrade them as well?




Tnx





Juker008

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

i just went to Energy Suspension's website, and right now they don't have any bushing kits available for the CL. well at least they dont' have it listed on their website.

have you talked to them to see if they are available, is there a cross platform application avialable, like the accord bushing kit for example?

i'm going to email them to ask them which ones are available and i'll put up the information here for you.

Nashua_Night_Hawk

I heard that the maxima 2001-2003 benefits from Poly-U engine mounts...

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

I don't see why installing them would hurt, there are only benefits to installing higher quality bushings. if you want a really sporty and car with a very good suspension i would go for it. as soon as i here from them i'll let you know if they are available.

EricL

If you could get them, one disadvantage to the polyurethane bushings could be additional harshness transmitted into the cabin. There is also the potential for: squeeks, groans, etc if the bushings are "self lubing" (graphite or other lube embedded in the bushing) or well-greased or lined with Teflon tape(etc, etc, etc)

If you ever find out that someone makes some altered bump stops, I'd be interested in having a look at that. I have an unproven/"gut feeling" that there are some setups that do a bit of rubbing in the front that would be fixed with more aggressive bump stops in the front. Something with a tad less compliance that engaged "earlier" (it is a form of a second spring/damper) would be something I'd like to investigate...

Kind of like o-rings. There are different degrees of hardness related to particular formulations. Here is a link with set of tables at the bottom and a varying resilience (durometer ratings).

http://www.sdplastics.com/polyuret.html



I'd be guessing at the general locations...

I think you could, but there would be trade-offs...

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

i think that since we are modifying our cars for sport purposes that the harshness transmitted to the cabin is something we can't get around.

my opinion is you can't have a superior handling sports car without it seeming to be stiff, rigid and firm on the road, i mean that's the point of it - to keep the car planted on the ground.

u can go for a sport ride, but even the sport ride will be firmer and more rigid than the stock ride because the lowered height requires the shocks and springs to react more quickly to bumps hence giving the firm and stiff ride.

i'm not saying you are like this, but if you want to have a sports luxury coupe that is also lowered and still feels like stock, i got news for ya, good luck!

if you can pull it off, i wanna know how you can do it, so we can maybe exchange ideas.

Juker008

Tnx for the help. I called up Energy Suspension and asked em what we have for our car. The tech told me that they really don't have much if anything at all for out cars. He told me that I could probably get a "universal" sway bushings along with the ES mount, BUT only for the front...WTF. Possibly be able to get bump stops and thats it.

I ask him if the Accord parts would fit he told me that they stoped making parts for the Accord in '97.

So if the CLS is similar to a '97 Accord then we can get more options; control arm bushings, front and rear sway setups. I also asked him about different hardnesses. He told me that only if ES specializes in that car; Honda Civic, Prelude, S2000. So in our case there would only be one hardness and the parts would be universal.

But let me ask u this, how do u think that universal would feel, act, and last. I always thought of universal as squeeking, rattleing, vibrating, always loosing. U know just something that ES could make that would allow u to use their product. I also thought of universal as not using 100% of what u just purchased.

So it looks to me that the only thing that we could get is front bushings and bumpstops for our shock towers, all universal. And maybe just maybe a universal for our rear sways as well.

They should make a set of bumpstops for our ride because there are a number of aftermarket suspension systems out there. So I would assume that if u called ES and told them the kit that u have they could send u out a set of bumpstops.


Hit me back and tell me what u think.






Juker008

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

I tried to respond to your PM Juker008 but it said your mailbox is full,

anyways, here is what i was going to respond with...

i don't know about using universal parts, i've always shrugged away from them simply because i'd worry if they work properly or not with my car. if it's something electrical i may consider it, but if it's mechanical i always pass simply because if it's not engineered to fit into every groove, nick and cranny in our car, then it won't fit right and work properly.

my gut feeling says that the 97 accord probably doesn't have any similarties to our CL's simply because if we check our product lineups, in 2001 acura re did the CL line from generation one, and in 98 honda redid the accord line up.

it'd be a gamble to see if a '97 part works on a 2001-2003 model car. the 98 accords are more similar to our cars from what i've heard fromsome people i know.

CLpower

I just got the sway bar and end link bushings for my first gen. and the ride is GREAT! the turn in the car has now is awesome and the ride isn't any harsher. It was a great 40$ spent!

The 97 parts may work. They didn't have the endlink bushings in for the accord so I ended up gettng them for a civic and just used the bushings w/ my stock bolts.

Juker008

Ok so how much reasearch would it take.

Ok ghander u said that u used the control arm bushings off of a civic for ur 1st gen.

So would I have to get the part numbers of numerious Hondas and Acuras and compare them to our suspension components/parts?

I think that that would be a very time consuming job to do. But it would be very easy and greatly appreciated if someone knew of a web site or page that listed related parts to out car.



Also ghander, could u explain to me the main purpose of the control arm and what kind of outcome is derived from upgrading the bushings in it.



Tnx





Juke008

EricL

Well, even the foam or suspension in a seat can influence what you can do with some bushings. And, yes, I know this sounds like BS.

Active suspension is what gets me off.


I've done something "close" with an earlier car, but it took a lot a work. It was not as soft, but the difference was "acceptable".

2" drop more than stock.
Ride over small stuff was close enough to stock that most people didn't comment and/or notice. Seats were changed to absorb some of the shock (that wasn’t the main reason, but it helped due to their particular design). They are no longer made…

A possible step would be Tein doing what they told they were going to do: modify the current coilovers to accept the stepper motors for inside-the-car control of damping. I can accept hard, medium, and it's-been-a-long-day ride settings.

.

EricL

Funny, my PM had the same thoughts about the "universal" parts...

CLpower

Juker, i didn't replace the control arm, i think that would be a little to much. I am gonna do the shock bushings though, probally just the upper though. I did the end links which are the end parts of the sway bar, along w/ the main sway bar bushings.

Juker008

What would be the out come if the control arm bushings were replaced?




Juker008

EricS

mmmmm....urethane filled engine mounts & TuRD hard rubber bushings....

DtEW

Had a full kit for an Acura Integra. Took me nearly two weeks of back-and-forth to a mechanic with a hydraulic press to push the factory units out so I could put the urethane units in.

Pro: Made transitions in and out of grip smoother, that is, when the front wheels let go there was no longer this grab-slip-grab-slip deal from bushing flex and merely smoothness with which I can ease back into grip. It falls into the same category of mods as chassis braces, although its effects are apparent even at lower levels of mod.

Con: Maintenance. Without what seemed like to me an excessive amount attention, the PTFE-based lubricant, which you are advised to slather into the bushing liberally, quickly dries/gets squeezed out. Then they start making noises. And eventually they begin binding. Although all factory bushings are also "flex" types, they were designed to flex and they takes relatively little effort to "turn". But the Energy Susp. urethane bushings are big blocks of polyurethane, which flexes very minimally. At that point the suspension begins exhibiting the "harsh " attributes that people talk about in regard to urethane.

Given a chance, I would not do it again, at least not with block-and-pin type urethane bushings. If I were to do it again these days, I would look toward a factory tuner such as Mugen/TRD/Nismo/Mazdaspeed to pick up factory performance flex-type bushings for the car. They will be firmer and more precise but will behave like your factory bushings in terms of everything else.

Oh, tip and tricks... It's hard to get ahold of the PTFE-based grease compatible with urethane buhings yet would stay on for any decent amount of time. One place you should look is in a large bicycle shop, for a product called "Grip Shift Jonnisnot SRT Series Grease." This works.

EricL

Interesting...

What interests me is how the so-called graphite impregnated bearings don't have a design or matrix that allows for the graphite or other lubricant to filter into the bushings over time (think sintered bronze bearings that last for years in cheap-o fan motors…)

Pappy

Hey Juker! Can you believe they came standard on my 1996 Chevy Blazer 4X4?

DtEW

What I had probably wasn't graphite-impregnated. They were bright red polyurethane.

In case anybody was interested, the main impetus for going with the kit was that the stamped rear trailing arms (in 2nd and 3rd-gen Integras, and in the respective Civics) had a large central bushing that was easily shredded. Acura didn't sell the bushings separately, but insisted on selling each rear trailing arm ~$500 per.

EricL

There are a few pages and people who think that the graphite-impregnated bushings are nothing more than polyurethane bushings "loaded-up" with a ton of graphite -- as opposed to something resembling a true matrix (that could hold and infuse the lubricant/graphite over extended intervals).

Perhaps someone will chime-in at some point...

Juker008

ES claims that the graphite bushings are self lubricating. I'll see if I can call them and ask them if they still require lube and the regular weekly maintanance of relubing.





Juker008

EricL

Would you mind asking them if they use a "true matrix" that infuses the lube over an extended period of time (months? year? years?).

I want to know the passivation depth (how deep the graphite is infused into the bushing).

What I ran into were claims that the "self-lube" def (and this included ES) was a fuzzy area and that the bearings needed replacement and/or lubing after varying amounts of time.

I called the techs there and got routed through to the R/D department. They wanted to hook me up with an engineer to dig into this further. I did mention the idea that the graphite might not “hang around” for an extended period of time and mentioned the addition of a zirc fitting to allow for re-lubing the bushings with suitable grease.

Juker008

Wow now there is very useful info. In fortunatly I didn't have time to call today, but will tomm. Very useful info Eric, ver useful.




Juker008

beerknurd

JUker008, did you ever call them? I just sent them an email letting them know I am interested in a front sway unit, and that others have asked about motor mounts.