VXCL

I changed my plugs out for some ngk g-powers and this is what i found. what do u guys think? seems im running rich. im amazed the car ran fine with these and i was getttin 25mpg!

thanks

ChadT

That's a nice presentation! THe plugs look pretty typical to me. Just look a little worn. The one with the large gap looks a little richer too.

VXCL

u think theres more deposits on 2 becuase of the larger gap? what would cause # 2 to have so much more deposits? also 1 and 3 are cleaner vs 2 and 4. i dont know much about looking at a plug and knowing whats going on in the engine. it does seem that overall my cl runs on the rich side. my mpg should go up right? those are worn, rounded, and even chipped. i would like to get 28 mpg on the highway. i replaced my plugs just becuase i figured it was time. the car was running fine. thanks for responding.

Cruz_msl

if you look closely, #2 is gapped little wide- causing a slightly colder than spec plug condition. That's why your seeing carbon build-up on that one. Notice the darker center electrode ceramic housing, how it didn't quite heat up enough to burn the carbon off? Now look closely at #1. See in your lower pic how the gap is closer and how the ground elecrode is slightly bent inward? It was probably burning a little hot due to that closer gap. Also, since it is closer in that one spot more than other spots, the center electrode as well as the ceramic housing has worn in a more rounded fashion. This is classic of a spark that was jumping from the closest spot and dancing all around the pre-maturely worn center electrode, including the sides of it.

Yes, I am Jack Rouche

With that said, I still think over-all the plugs burnt pretty well.

EricL

I don't know how hard it would be to have a look at the newly installed and gapped plugs, but you might want to have a look at the new ones in a few weeks and see if they all look the same – or see if #2 is looking similar to the current batch.

If #2 is still running a bit rich, you might want to check the fuel injector and make sure it's ok.

I'm not so sure that an additional 0.2mm of gap would cause that sooting on that plug. Perhaps if you have a piss-poor old-style electrical system or a weak electrical system, but it couldn't hurt to see if the problem is gone with a new set of plugs.

If that was a car with carbs, I'd be pulling the plugs at different loads (uphill, downhill, different rpms) after killing the engine to prevent a read of the idle condition. With a good CD ignition -- and fuel system working properly -- the plugs would look pretty similar even with a few tenths of a mm of gap difference. (I'm talking old-timer tune-up methods for Webber carbs when no dyno time was available..)

YMMV

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

They look normal to me. The CL runs rich anyway. I wonder if a hotter or colder plug would make much of a difference?

dallison

what cruz_msl said

t-rd

You'll run richer and lose power with a colder range plugs. This has been dyno proven on Denso Iridium IK20s in Accord V6. There is no need to run colder plugs unless you are on some sort of force induction.

EricL

The CL shouldn't run rich at cruising speed. It should be around 14.7:1. (WOT is another matter, and that depends on the model of car. You could check for that, by turning off the engine right after a WOT run. IN a manual, you'd just push in the clutch and kill the engine, pull the plugs right by roadside.) When you only see one plug that looks different, even if it's a slight difference, it's worth an investigation.

If a vehicle is "known" to burn a bit rich or lean in a given cylinder due to manifold design (or other issue), people will generally get to know about it over time. (I haven't see an O2+EGT sensors sitting on every cylinder's exhaust port...)

When you have items like: clogged injector or an injector with a poor spray pattern (poor atomization), you can get problems under certain conditions.

When you have a "weak" electrical system (bad coil-on-plug or wire/distributor/etc) you can get some problems. However, if the misfire is bad enough with an OBDII, you will generally get a MIL lamp fired.

Cold plug --> doesn't burn off the crud fast enough. Great for F/I or raised compression.

Hot plug --> Detonation possibilities if care isn’t taken. (Some plugs have a longer heat range, but you have to know what you’re doing.)

VXCL

thanks for the response guys. i will check on #2 in a month. i made sure all the new ones were gapped at 1.1. so overall my 97 cl seems to be running fine? and keep on eye on #2.

also how hard is it to index spark plugs? is it worth the time? better mpg or power?

EricL

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...gs/index.shtml

IMO, "worth the time", etc are all in the eye of the beholder.

However, if I was road racing -- especially for my living -- I would be indexing the plugs, and going for every last tenth of a HP. But, I'm not racing it...

YMMV

VXCL

hey thanks alot. my plugs are hidden way down inside sleeves. i woudl have to mark the extension to know where the gap is pointing. now i need to figure out which way to point them. i take it away from the exhaust ports. i will look into this somemore. thanks again

ChucksTL_RENAMED

Gap has nothing to do with "hottness or coldness" of a spark plug. The gap is what exposes the electrons in the spark to the fuel-air mixture, period. While there may be a miniscule difference, the gap is engineered in at the factory and takes into consideration all aspects of the engine's operating perameters. The factory setting assures best performance, driveability and emmisions.
I can tell you this...that the heat range of a plug is determined by how much of the "porcelain" actually contacts the metal shell inside the plug. More porcelain, more heat transfer (to the water jacket), colder plug. Less porcelain, less heat transfer, hotter plug. Engines that have been engineered for one thing and then are used for another i.e. race use benefit from colder plugs, or all day long idling engines like some police and taxi use engines need hotter plugs as they are running so cool we need to have the heat stay in there or the plugs could possibly foul. Hope this helps.

ChadT

I indexed mine on my old Prelude. I didn't use washers or anything I just marked them and swapped them aropund until they were in the best position. (open part of the plug facing the intake side).

RUF87

EricL,

I think your pretty close on the issue, if I remember my tuning days. I would agree that .2mm isn't that much more. However, if the actual gap is supposed to be 1.1mm and that ones 1.7mm, then you're talking .6mm difference in tolerance.

So combine that with a potential injector problem and it could be the difference we see here. Especially if what everyone says is true that these engines tend to run a bit rich.

Overall I'd have the injectors cleaned, but it could be even a bit more than that. There's a place that "tunes" injectors, but can't remember the name of the place.

Also, as noted, there are other potential culprits. bad ignition wire, or system providing a weak spark, etc.

That said, I don't think that plug (situation)is bad enough to result in a noticeable idle problem. May hurt your 1/4 times by a few hundredths of a sec maybe.

Ruf

VXCL

the car is running like when i first got it as far as i can tell. remember i have a 97 f22b1 engine not a j32. im going to be getting a msd igntion, coil, cap, and wires in next couple months. my wires are on the old side. (i should test them with a ohm meter) its also time to replace my distributor rotor.

ChadT

Cap, rotor and wires will make a big difference. I'd stayu away from the big coils. I put one on my Prelude and it ate plugs like crazy. It also overheated the distributer and I had to take it apart and re-grease the bearing on it. Changing the cap, rotor and wires is easy except for the screw that holds the rotor on. It gets fairly tight.

VXCL

chad what exactly did you put on ur prelude? just a coil? im interested in a msd 6a igntion, msd coil, msd wires, and the msd cap with hookup for the coil. only prob i heard so far is that the coils usually go unexpectedly so i would keep a spare in the car.

ChadT

I had a Crane Hi-6 and a Crane coil. It may have given a bit of performance but it was really hard on the rest of the ignition system. Just putting good wires on. (Magnecores) made the most noticeable difference. Unless you have done something to the car to raise cylinder pressure significantly the stock system should be fine. I took all the crane stuff off after going through several sets of Bosch Platinum plugs and having distributer problems. You will probably get more out of freshening up the ignition components and adding some good wires.