6speed

I've got 4000 miles on my 03. The book says 7500. Should I wait or change it sooner.

russianDude

You drive city, highway, both?
If you do 50/50 than 4000-5000 seems about right. If you drive pure highway, than 7500 is right also.

6speed

I guess I'm 60/40. Perhaps a little more city driving than highway

JasonT

I do every 5K miles. Just regular 5w20 oil.

Scrib

7500???!!! I thought it was every 3750?

I changed mine at 3750... Oh well...

Type S

i did change my cls at its very first 3000 miles with full syn mobil 1 5W~30W.... i change my oil every 3000 miles...

Slimey

The owners manual states every 7500 miles unless you fall into the extreme category which includes-

The timeline for oil change is hotly debated on forums such as this. The manufacturer is pretty blatent about saying that a lot of people waste money on oil and filters with frequent changing.

You'll get no absolute answer here.

(I'm still at 1500 miles so I have not changed yet)

blazerbob1

Change my oil every 3500m. or sooner if oil getting dark with 5-30 synthetic!

RaptorCLS

If I wish to use Syn oil, does the dealership carry it? Or do I have to bring it in?

How much better is Syn than Regular oil?


Thanks Guys

tmk70

gmilian

i change every 5000, give or take. i use redline 5w-30 with k&n oil filter. also use water wetter in the coolant.

CO-CL-S

The book says non extreme is 7,500 miles. What is so hard to figure out, especially when the book also tells us what extreme is? YMMV

peiqinglong

I believe you have to provide it yourself. Heard Syn makes the engine feel and run better...I don't know...

juice

I changed mine when I hit 1000. Then, every 3000!!! Always have, probably always will.

EdgarFanCLS

My dealership carries it - Sunnyside acura in nashua, nh. It's probably best to call the tech. counter at your dealership and ask just to be certain though.

peiqinglong

Will definitely look into that...thanks for the heads up!

RaptorCLS

Thanks Guys for the heads...will give those guys a calls

gmilian

bay area guys: my motorcycle shop sells me redline oil per case ($85 plus tax.) if you guys want redline let me know. if we get enough ppl i'll see if he can drop the price. that price is $7 per quart. in the store it will cost you at least $8.

6spdCL-S

6speed,

I have 6300 miles and just had my oil changed. I would recommend that you not do it at the dealer. They wanted $98 to rotate tires and do a synthetic oil change. I went to Goodyear and paid $49.99 for an oil change and synthetic oil change using Mobil 1 syntec. I was told by the dealer that you only have to change every 7500 miles because synthetic oils today are better than they used to be in the past. I changed mine at 6000 miles because 7500 just seemed like a long time to go without a change. I am sure you would be fine if you waited until 7500 miles to change but I would not change every 3000 miles. Only if you use regular oil and I think our 6speeds require synthetic.

Nicky Pass

My 1st oil change was free, so I got it done at 3000 miles.

FLL Type-S

I took my car in at 3750 to have my springs installed and to get my oil changed. The service manager actaully dissuaded me from getting the oil changed. He told me that Honda puts a special oil in their new cars to help break it in, and I should leave it in until 7500. It also says this on the Acura Owners Link website. I tend to believe it as when was the last time a dealer told you he did NOT want to take your money.

My maintenance light started flashing today on start up. I think I read here somewhere that it will start doing that at 6000 miles so you start thinking about getting it changed. 7500 does seem like such a long time

EricL

At least one of the “major” car magazines called Acura about this very "oil myth" and Acura said it was BS...

AS for the "dealers saving you money, so it must be true" -- I've had dealers dissuade me from doing various services at various times and had them turn out to be some of the biggest turkeys/con-artists/BS’rs that I ever ran into. A "neat" trick (of confidence men) is to gain your trust (through one or more "kind" gestures). (You don't think they saved all that much by not having you due an extra oil change -- do you?)

A few months ago C&D (or R&T) asked Accura this exact question about the special break-in oil and the guys called and checked with Acura. They said there was no special break-in oil and suggested that the person follow regular oil interval changed by time and mileage.

Look carefully in your service manual -- there are "inspections" and services that are required by TIME and/or Mileage (AND there are two schedules based on various “factors”). The time factor is rather important, since water and acids build-up in the oil and its a good idea to get a clean dose of oil to clean out any water, acid, or other goo that collects in your engine!

FLL Type-S

Can you provide the source for the "major car magazine"? I'd be interested in seeing it.

From the Acura Owners Link website under MOTOR OIL FAQS :

"Why should I wait to change the oil the first time?
Your Acura engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process.
American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions. "

I don't think they'd post "BS" on their website.

6speed

I totally agree. I'm not planning on letting the dealer touch my car unless it's a waranty repair. I have a mechanic who specializes in Japanese cars. He's totally fair and honest.

EricS

Yeah, I got a guy who specializes in imports too. He's been working on my MR2 for the past 10 years I've had it. Oh wait, that guy is me

I'll probably wait till 5000 to do my first change. Car will be 6 months old by then (works in well with EricL's time thing). Plus those are nice even numbers

EricL

OK, I FOUND THE ROAD&TRACK Article online (and I'm pretty sure there is another one out there):

In the end, the meaning of "special" would be of the greatest importance AND I've got an interesting question. If this oil is so special, how come they don't stock it for people who run low during their break-in periods or make it available for engine builders? If someone can find some "official" Honda/Acura break-in oil, I would like to see the bottle! I also called Acura Care and the service people about eight times and each time I got a different story (this is not a good sign).


Here is the link to the April 2002 Road&Track article -- it's on the web and could dissapear and/or change. I have had other information by Acura change with time (that's the problem with web info):

http://www.roadandtrack.com/technica...?ArticleID=180

-- start of complete excerpt --

Technical Correspondence
On break-ins, boost and batteries

Edited by Tom Wilson

Honda Break-In Oil

As the first oil change for my 2001 Honda Civic, the dealer recommends 10,000 miles (5000 miles for severe driving conditions). The salesman said this extended time is due to a special break-in oil that Honda uses, and if that oil is removed too early, the engine will not get necessary protection or proper break-in. My aircraft mechanic husband has always changed the oil in a new car engine at 500 to 1000 miles. What do you recommend?
Sue Spincic
Eldora, New Jersey

This one sounds like an old fish story to us. We could uncover nothing unusual about Honda oil after talking with both Honda and aftermarket tuners. We confirmed the change intervals you cite are Honda's recommendations, and that rather thin 5W-20 mineral oil is being used, but nothing about any mouse milk in the oil that improves the break-in process. We would feel comfortable changing the break-in oil at 500 and 1000 miles while continuing to use Honda-specified oil. It's likely overkill, but frequent oil changes are still the least expensive engine insurance going. Once past break-in, we'd defer to the factory-specified change interval. There certainly would be no harm in changing the oil at 5000 miles on a regular basis if you wanted to maintain an aggressive stance on oil cleanliness.

bnavarro

EricL

There is a link to a "break-in" your engine (like a weenie) page (just ‘cause it’s a motorcycle, doesn’t mean there isn’t some interesting and valid info there). Again, as was done in any of my rebuilt and highly modified engines, the break-in was plain old non-detergent (and they all lasted a very long time).. The guy has some info on breaking in and about using break-in oil to top-off and some more interesting stuff. (I do wonder where the Acura/Honda "official" break-in oil is -- hey?)


Here is something that may be of interest:

http://www.bmwrt.com/faq/breakin.htm


$0.02

Slimey

Thanks for the link and effort, but this commentary provides little insight into reality. He said they found nothing unusual about the break-in oil, but he also fails to mention what the break-in oil is (which, to me, means he doesn't know). I doubt the oil is very unusual, but it may be a different viscosity then the ultimately recommended 5W-20 or 5W-30.

Commentary without data is just commentary. His statement is useless in final decision making.

I still have yet to see a great reason for high frequency oil changes or low frequency changes. No one out there will do the real experiment: buy two of the same vehicle and drive both with the same severity. Change one's oil (both cars with the same oil and filter each time) every 2K and the other's every 10K. Check the wear of the metal (et cetera) at 100,000 miles and see which one is worse.

I would guess that Honda's recommendations are not far off. Oil and oil filters are better than those of 30 years ago. Many of us use synthetics that have better cold flow characteristics. I bet that you can safely get away with either a frequent or an infrequent schedule.

Honda/Acura does build cars and it would be in their interest to make any recommendation to improve the longevity of the car, at least out to the end of warranty (and many have a 100,000 mile warranty). They do not want to be replacing engines of dealing with pissed-off customers based on a recommendation for oil changes. They have nothing to lose by recommending 1000 mile changes, but they don't. With frequent changes, they'd probably even see increased revenues in their service bays.

I don't think there is a right answer for this one. Too many variables and too much cost to really test scientifically. Probably the best situation would be to do the Amsoil oil checking thing where you analyze the oil periodically to see if it needs changing. Will I do that? Probably not.

What am I going to do? Not worry about it until 5000 miles or 6 months and then make a decision (change it then or at 7500) and try to keep consistent with freqency and oil used. I'll probably go synthetic with Mobil 1, but will that make a difference in the life of my car (over Honda brand no-name dino oil)? Who knows (probably not)?

Slimey

Interesting link. Doesn't support the Road & Track comments. This one says break-in oil is useful if not important; R&T commentary essentially said 'who cares' about break-in oil.

One thing that is said of engine break-in in the article that I've also heard from a number of mechanics is allowing your car to warm up before driving will give the engine a longer lifespan. This seems like easy advice to follow and I let my car warm up at least one minute (in warm weather, longer in cold) before taking off. Usually by the time I'm down my driveway the temp needle is registering.

Maybe voodoo again, but simple.

EricL

RE: the link not supporting Road and Track. The article doesn't say that you keep break in oil in the car forever.

AND

Where is the Honda Break-in oil? If it so darn important, where is it for people and/or dealers who need to add a little bit in or have an incident where they need to top off or replace the oil before the engine gets to 600-1000 miles (at a minimum)???? Doesn't this strike anyone as strange? If you were making a product that was so darn fussy about having some kind of "magic goo" for break-ins, wouldn't you make it available to your dealers?

I do agree about the two-minute warm-up before running along (but, this is another favorite point of contention)…

The article says nothing about leaving in break-in oil for extended periods of time.

IMO, if you have already reached 5000-miles in a month or two and don't drive in EXTREAM conditions, then leave the stuff in. IF YOU HAVE A LOT OF TIME TO GO (a year -- or more) before getting to this "magic" number, why not just change the oil to something that is clean and protects the engine that is probably broken in (how you drive will alter that and everyone drives differently).

Here is the point that would make my comments so easy and clear. If Acura just supplied the "magic break-in oil", I would just say, "Hey, change the break-in lube (if it was in for too long a time [year or more]) with their magic lube". I had such low mileage the first year that I changed early; the engine was already broken in and uses zero oil, is very fast, has no engine noises, and is problem free.

BTW, Road and Track DOES NOT say break-in oil in unimportant. They say that after 500- to 1000-miles of usage, a change to “the recommended oil” would be fine (synthetic is approved by Acura if it meets their requirements). The information in that article jibes with my experience and I've built some solid and long-lived engines and I NEVER cheap- out on oils and/or oil changes. They[R/T] are also a bunch of "weenies" and, IMO, would be the first to say, "Hey, you better leave that oil in for 10,000 miles".

You do realize that the information that Honda puts out is very "generic" -- most people DON'T like complicated explanations with lots of details. (I know from experience).

If Honda/Acura had a "computer program" in your car that was a "wear-in" computer, it would magically tell you when to change to the normal oil. But, everyone drives differently and I'm pretty sure that there are some engines that drive at 1200 - 2400 RPM on the freeway for all of the first miles (or will get the WOT and back treatment) and it behooves them to set a "fixed" guideline. Now is it simpler to call their oil "special break-in oil", when special can (and in a number of cases) means "different". In this case they are trying to prevent someone who has not put any real engine time (at mixed revs, etc) from stopped needed break-in.

so, in reality, depending on how you drive, and how "hip" you are to following those instructions on breaking in an engine (walking the revs up slowly [and I believe the 10K miles is a bit over the top]), you would probably be perfectly OK changing the oil at 1000 miles (that is what I think R&T is saying).

To summarize: good "wear-in" vs. too much time with dirty oil is a trade-off and there is no "perfect" mileage that needs to be met for every driver on the planet. In your case, you may need to swap out the break-in oil at 1000-miles. If your engine is "lapped-in", you're ready to go. Why add just start wearing down a "perfect" engine prematurely? OTOH, if the engine is not broken in (1200 MPH freeway runs), then by all means let the oil stay in the engine until 7500 miles (if the 7500 miles comes before the it gets filled with acids, water, and other junk).


IT IS A TRADE-OFF AND the better informed you are the better YOU can make decisions about what to do. And finally, at some point, it's like the which great synthetic or filter to use -- they are all gems (as one of the member's here likes to say).

EricL

TIME is an issue that is important.

I can give you an example on why it would hurt them to suggest a 1000-mile change EVEN if it helped the car: How many people do you think would buy the car if they knew they had to bring it in every 1000-miles? Not everything that Honda/Acura does is based on "good" practice. Need I mention the lack of a proper transmission cooler for the car. Then there are cars for sale in California that don't run too well on 91-octane, but the makers would have tons of "normal" folks flipping out over gas that they "couldn't" get easily (knowing that the car dealer, manual, etc said it required 93-octane).




In this particular case -- the transmission is going to blow-up (well, at least the automatic slushbox) before the engine every goes and, IMO, that includes someone who is terrible at breaking in engines.

As far as the Amsol engine checking "think". Doing an oil analysis will tell you when and how to change the oil, but getting every extra HP out of an engine is something that comes from experience and Acura does NOT design our cars for performance alone. I can state this from their choice of: 1) undersized tires 2) crappy 4th gear ratio (in the auto), and 3) from other issues. They are very eco-sensitive and are driven by many differing requirements.

Once the engine is broken-in, it is still going to get broken in (as mentioned in the article). There is a fine line between loosening-up an engine (good sealing and compression) AND having low frictional losses.


Well, I used to use “dino” oil (Castrol GTX) and it used to coke in my Bimmer’s head.. The oil was fine and got changed constantly, but one of the setups that I had along with some early "design" problems that related to the cooling system (before I changed it completely) made for high temps at shut-down and the inside of the valve cover was coked-up. Take some synthetic and put it in a fry pan and that alone is of interest enough to me. (After the themoswitch addition, different thermostat, change in water pump, engine internals, thermo switches, radiator, and fan blade removal with huge electric multi-controlled fan etc, this became less of an issue, but the engine sure did like the synthetic)


BTW, I wouldn't worry about 5K miles and/or 6-months either. It is the low-mileage drivers that need to remember that time is also a factor. There is more to this and an "interactive" approach would save a lot of words...

Generationz

but i use castrol syntec

govleach

Hey Guys,

I'm confused about something and wonder if any of you have any thoughts - I'm getting mixed answers from Acura dealers and customer service at American Honda.

I'm aware of the different schedules for oil changes (3750 vs. 7000) depending on the type of driving. However, when I bought my new 2002 CL-S (silver) in January, the dealer told me to wait until 7,000 miles for the first oil change, regardless of the type of driving (I live in the DC area, so obviously a lot of acceleration and hard braking).

The reason, according to the dealer, is that the cars come with a special "break-in" oil that has a special additive, and that it shouldn't be changed before 7,000 for the first change. Now I tend to follow the "severe" schedule and tried to make an apppointment the other day, but the dealer said wait, that this special oil will benefit the engine in the long run.

I have talked to another Acura dealer in the area, and they dispute this, and say follow the appropriate schedule. Also, the owner's manual doesn't say anything about this "break-in" oil. I cringe at the thought of waiting until 7.000 miles. What's more is I plan on driving to my home state of Montana in a few weeks. And I plan to unleash all 260 horses on Montana's highways (Montana, as you may recall, used to have NO posted speed limits on highways between 1995 and 1999).

ANY THOUGHTS??

Govleach
02 CL-S

Slimey

That is the question...

Honda suggests that there is a break-in oil, but none have been able to document that this really exists.

Drain intervals are also constantly debated. My dealer (as well as Honda/Acura's website and manual) suggest waiting longer than most of the posters on this forum practice.

I would be wary of really opening up you engine in Montana with old oil, but, as I've said before, I cannot be sure it makes a difference. I've seen no documention (science) to the contrary.

Bob 1

In the '03 owners manual under break in period it says: Do not change the oil until the recommended time or mileage interval shown in the maintenance schedule. I would assume that is there since they have some type of break in oil. Otherwise, why would they care?

Slimey

It absolutely says there is a special break-in oil in their documentation.

I reread the manual today. There also is a caveat that if you occasionally drive under severe conditions then you should follow the normal schedule.

They really don't encourage you to change the oil that frequently.

scl23

I change every 4k and it's usually about every 3-4 months for me between changes. I've been told 4k w/ regular and 7k w/ synthetic. I'm going to be selling the car after 5-6 years anyhow so I don't particularly care if it's going to run 200k or 300k.

govleach

While we're on the subject of oil, let me throw out another question. As you probably know, they specifically recommend 5W-20 oil for our cars. This is my first brand new car, and I am thinking about using synethic, however Mobil 1 (which seems to be the "Holy Grail" of motor oil) doesn't make that weight, at least yet. Can 10W-30 or 5W-30 be used instead of 5W-20? Will it hurt the engine?

In my last car (which was a bad-ass 1988 Olds Toronado Trofeo), I used Castrol 10-30 and it still purred at 170,000.

What would you guys recommend, regular 5-20 (which Castrol does make), or Mobil1 syn 10-30?

Thanks,

Govleach

EricL

The 5w-30 will be fine. In my owner's manual for the 2001 CLS, it recommends 5w-30.

IMO, you would be better off from a protection standpoint getting some really good synthetic 5w-30 (or 5w-20 if you care to) than just putting in regular "dino" 5w-20 dino oil.

Here is something that may interest you:


http://www.desertsundirectsales.com/ford5w20.htm

They following is on Amsol’s site (if you disagree, feel free, I didn’t say this…)

” New for model year 2001 and Newer: Ford and Honda specify 5W-20 motor oil for most all cars and light trucks.
Ford and Honda disguise the real reason by telling customers it is better for their vehicle. DON'T BELIEVE IT! Ford even went as far as to print "Use 5W-20 oil only" in bright yellow on the oil filler cap.
They are NOT looking out for the customers’ best interest. They are looking out for their best interest which ultimately results in more profit for them while all you end up with is less protection (outside of average operating conditions) for your engine and an engine which could possibly wearout sooner. Read on to learn the TRUTH behind 5W-20 and beware because more OEM's may be doing the same thing in the years to come. "


There are some fuel saving issues that come from using a lighter weight oil, but, it's not like the "oil police" is going to void your warranty using a good 5w-30 motor oil that meets the basic oil requirements.

(As a note, if you do get the Mobil-1, Amsol, Redline, and/or many other great oils, you may actually be putting in better oil than some of the stuff that "some" dealers will buy in bulk" [I said some dealers... ok])

$0.02