OBX Headers Dyno on my CLS... Gains are AMAZING!
09-11-2002, 09:07 PM
#41
Suzuka Master
Originally posted by euphoriaRSX
guys, the pullies have nothing to do with this dyno....the pullies were INCLUDED with for his BASELINE Dyno numbers....the headers gave him an additional 35 hp over the BASELINE numbers (whatever they are, he hasnt said yet). so him having pullies doesnt mean anything, its not like he dynoed it stock and then put pullies AND headers on....the pullies were all ready on BEFORE he did his baseline dyno, so the headers DO INFACT give 35 hp....think about it....
EDIT: this is jimcol711 on my girlfreinds name again
guys, the pullies have nothing to do with this dyno....the pullies were INCLUDED with for his BASELINE Dyno numbers....the headers gave him an additional 35 hp over the BASELINE numbers (whatever they are, he hasnt said yet). so him having pullies doesnt mean anything, its not like he dynoed it stock and then put pullies AND headers on....the pullies were all ready on BEFORE he did his baseline dyno, so the headers DO INFACT give 35 hp....think about it....
EDIT: this is jimcol711 on my girlfreinds name again
Actually, the pulleys will help -- any mod you toss on before or after lightening a rotating load on the engine side of a car (flywheel, connecting rods, crank pulleys) will give you A HUGE advantage in "effective" gains. The reflected load is a function of gear ratio SQUARED!!!!! (Info available in a good control systems engineering book)
That 8lbs on the engine looks like 8 x gearRatio^2 sitting at the wheels (presumes the same size pulley hanging on one of the output shafts/wheels/whatever on the "output" side of the transmission. So, figure out the gear ratio for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and/or 4th (3rd is used for most dynos on the CLS) and see what the "reflected" weight looks like on the...
For example if a ratio was 4:1 (gear and rear end) the "effective" load would be 8 * 4^2 = 8 * 16 = 128 lbs less weight on the output side (dyno side) of the transmission....
So, you get a much larger increase in "effective" hp.
Also, the effect of the pulleys gives you even MORE effective power in the lower gears (that the dyno will NOT show you).
Multiply the 1st gear x final drive and square that, and you’ll get the picture - - > even more power to the ground in first gear!
Lighter rotational inertia == easier to spin up...
09-11-2002, 09:19 PM
#43
Senior Moderator
i want to see track times, aka the bottom line.
i'm sure that will be soon.
i'm sure that will be soon.
09-11-2002, 09:59 PM
#46
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WOW….This has to be one of the WORST reports for one of the most anticipated tests on this car I have seen here so far.
I bet that Shawn S guy would have had photos and a full report up within 2-hours of the dyno.
No need to do this. Please reduce those to about 1,000 x 700 pixels and they will look just fine to post and only be about 100K in size each.
Shawn S
I bet that Shawn S guy would have had photos and a full report up within 2-hours of the dyno.
Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
allocate 100 MB of HD space... I have some 80+ 2560x1920 pictures to be hosted and the 2 pages Dyno Graphs...
allocate 100 MB of HD space... I have some 80+ 2560x1920 pictures to be hosted and the 2 pages Dyno Graphs...
Shawn S
09-11-2002, 10:23 PM
#47
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WOW 
If that is the case I am getting pulleys. 
EDIT: I just saw dyno charts on AEM's website & the gains were only (3.3hp/2.4 lb ft). You mentioned "effective gains" in your post, does this mean you will get more than the dyno says do to the weight loss? I believe what you are saying, but it just does not make sense to me. Can you explain your theory vs. the dyno?
Thanks
If that is the case I am getting pulleys. EDIT: I just saw dyno charts on AEM's website & the gains were only (3.3hp/2.4 lb ft). You mentioned "effective gains" in your post, does this mean you will get more than the dyno says do to the weight loss? I believe what you are saying, but it just does not make sense to me. Can you explain your theory vs. the dyno?
Thanks
Originally posted by EricL
Actually, the pulleys will help -- any mod you toss on before or after lightening a rotating load on the engine side of a car (flywheel, connecting rods, crank pulleys) will give you A HUGE advantage in "effective" gains. The reflected load is a function of gear ratio SQUARED!!!!! (Info available in a good control systems engineering book)
That 8lbs on the engine looks like 8 x gearRatio^2 sitting at the wheels (presumes the same size pulley hanging on one of the output shafts/wheels/whatever on the "output" side of the transmission. So, figure out the gear ratio for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and/or 4th (3rd is used for most dynos on the CLS) and see what the "reflected" weight looks like on the...
For example if a ratio was 4:1 (gear and rear end) the "effective" load would be 8 * 4^2 = 8 * 16 = 128 lbs less weight on the output side (dyno side) of the transmission....
So, you get a much larger increase in "effective" hp.
Also, the effect of the pulleys gives you even MORE effective power in the lower gears (that the dyno will NOT show you).
Multiply the 1st gear x final drive and square that, and you’ll get the picture - - > even more power to the ground in first gear!
Lighter rotational inertia == easier to spin up...
Actually, the pulleys will help -- any mod you toss on before or after lightening a rotating load on the engine side of a car (flywheel, connecting rods, crank pulleys) will give you A HUGE advantage in "effective" gains. The reflected load is a function of gear ratio SQUARED!!!!! (Info available in a good control systems engineering book)
That 8lbs on the engine looks like 8 x gearRatio^2 sitting at the wheels (presumes the same size pulley hanging on one of the output shafts/wheels/whatever on the "output" side of the transmission. So, figure out the gear ratio for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and/or 4th (3rd is used for most dynos on the CLS) and see what the "reflected" weight looks like on the...
For example if a ratio was 4:1 (gear and rear end) the "effective" load would be 8 * 4^2 = 8 * 16 = 128 lbs less weight on the output side (dyno side) of the transmission....
So, you get a much larger increase in "effective" hp.
Also, the effect of the pulleys gives you even MORE effective power in the lower gears (that the dyno will NOT show you).
Multiply the 1st gear x final drive and square that, and you’ll get the picture - - > even more power to the ground in first gear!
Lighter rotational inertia == easier to spin up...
09-11-2002, 10:38 PM
#49
Safety Car
Pulley myth... or reality?
The lighter-pulley (as EricL put it well) reduces the rotational mass
the crank (the 'drive' arm) has to spin. This is similar in concept to
a lightened flywheel.
The dyno is not an effective method in measuring the net effect of a lightened flywheel or a crank-pulley... only the track will tell. The difference in the dyno is similiar to saying... you lose only 13.6% now for your drivetrain vs. the 15% you were losing earlier!!
When UR (Unorthodox Racing) first came out with their crank pulley they gave me one to try out. I put one on my civic (race-car). This was only just drove just the alternator (hence... very light). It did nothing at the track... absoluteley no improvement in E.T. In fact, it screwed up my launch rpm. Car dynoe'd in at 202 whp before and 208 whp after, but it didn't help at the track.
Keep in mind that this car weighed in at 1500lbs, so even 5hp can be felt.
I have also heard horror stories about how the pulley affects the oil-pump or water-pump - I don't know the truth or facts behind this, but too many people have told me this to completely dismiss the fact.
the crank (the 'drive' arm) has to spin. This is similar in concept to
a lightened flywheel.
The dyno is not an effective method in measuring the net effect of a lightened flywheel or a crank-pulley... only the track will tell. The difference in the dyno is similiar to saying... you lose only 13.6% now for your drivetrain vs. the 15% you were losing earlier!!
When UR (Unorthodox Racing) first came out with their crank pulley they gave me one to try out. I put one on my civic (race-car). This was only just drove just the alternator (hence... very light). It did nothing at the track... absoluteley no improvement in E.T. In fact, it screwed up my launch rpm. Car dynoe'd in at 202 whp before and 208 whp after, but it didn't help at the track.
Keep in mind that this car weighed in at 1500lbs, so even 5hp can be felt.
I have also heard horror stories about how the pulley affects the oil-pump or water-pump - I don't know the truth or facts behind this, but too many people have told me this to completely dismiss the fact.
09-11-2002, 10:55 PM
#50
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by SFLA_Type-S
WOW If that is the case I am getting pulleys.
EDIT: I just saw dyno charts on AEM's website & the gains were only (3.3hp/2.4 lb ft). You mentioned "effective gains" in your post, does this mean you will get more than the dyno says do to the weight loss? I believe what you are saying, but it just does not make sense to me. Can you explain your theory vs. the dyno?
Thanks
WOW
If that is the case I am getting pulleys. EDIT: I just saw dyno charts on AEM's website & the gains were only (3.3hp/2.4 lb ft). You mentioned "effective gains" in your post, does this mean you will get more than the dyno says do to the weight loss? I believe what you are saying, but it just does not make sense to me. Can you explain your theory vs. the dyno?
Thanks
I get it now.
09-11-2002, 11:20 PM
#53
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Originally posted by Zapata
35whp from headers on our cars is impossible. He already had the UR pullies installed. I simply can not believe that a ripoff design will net nearly 10whp and 10ftlbs of trq more than comptech dynos. How is it that OBX are getting more power than the headers from which they are copied??
35whp from headers on our cars is impossible. He already had the UR pullies installed. I simply can not believe that a ripoff design will net nearly 10whp and 10ftlbs of trq more than comptech dynos. How is it that OBX are getting more power than the headers from which they are copied??
Not sure if you noticed, but the Comptech Y pipe is almost a direct copy of Acura's OEM piece (with a smoother 2-1 junction). And as for the actual "headers". There's pretty much only one way you can route 4 ports to 1 pipe with only 6" of pipe. Comptech just made some shorty headers that mount to an improved "Y-pipe".
So as you keep bashing OBX for "copying" Comptech, keep in mind their design isn't that original. Sure, they were the first to do it, and screw everyone with the $1200 price tag, but it's not that special.
Kind of sad how you can buy really good headers for a 4-Cylinder for $300, but then that's supply/demand.The ones from Prototype Racing on the otherhand are true original design. Equal length tubes that are long for better scavaging for more HP and better fuel economy. I'm drooling already while waiting for their dyno's!
And Greddy is coming out with a set as well....
But until then.... Where are the dyno's for the OBXs! Cruel bastard!
09-12-2002, 01:29 AM
#58
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I know you guys want dynos and i do too. Nasha would be an idiot to make these claims and not have proof. Knowing the crap he would get from you guys. But Just because He didn't have time to post the dynos yet don't start bashing him, at least he was cool enough to at least give us the Number ASAP. You know There are lots of other things going on other than the site, especially on today (9/11). He'll get them up soon give him some time and slack.
I Hope everyone took some time to reflect on what happened last year . My Prayers go out to anyone who was affected by this tragedy.
I Hope everyone took some time to reflect on what happened last year . My Prayers go out to anyone who was affected by this tragedy.
09-12-2002, 09:38 AM
#61
Well first of all, we dont need 80 pics, we need scans of the dyno charts. I don't need 75 pics of the sexy men installing your headers and 5 pics of them on your car. :P
Second, he has the pulleys and the pulleys are more than what the AEM pulleys offer - the UR pulleys include a crank pulley and do indeed dyno around 10hp gain.
Third, we saw pics of the inside of the OBX compared to the CT headers and saw how much rougher it was inside compared to CT's smoothly ground tubes. It IS possible the rougher tubes SOMEHOW managed to actually cause a better flow, but it's doubtful considering CT did plenty of research in building their headers.
I'm going to go ahead and call 25hp from the headers and 10hp from the pulleys = the 35hp he says he dyno'd.
Second, he has the pulleys and the pulleys are more than what the AEM pulleys offer - the UR pulleys include a crank pulley and do indeed dyno around 10hp gain.
Third, we saw pics of the inside of the OBX compared to the CT headers and saw how much rougher it was inside compared to CT's smoothly ground tubes. It IS possible the rougher tubes SOMEHOW managed to actually cause a better flow, but it's doubtful considering CT did plenty of research in building their headers.
I'm going to go ahead and call 25hp from the headers and 10hp from the pulleys = the 35hp he says he dyno'd.
09-12-2002, 09:55 AM
#64
Safety Car
Installation
Originally posted by peiqinglong
Wow...35 to the wheel is quite impressive i must say! Now I'm just waiting for Adam's dyno on his stock CL. After that...I wonder how these headers will do in a year.
Wow...35 to the wheel is quite impressive i must say! Now I'm just waiting for Adam's dyno on his stock CL. After that...I wonder how these headers will do in a year.
install... I'll do it for $200.
09-12-2002, 09:59 AM
#65
Ain't No Other...
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Re: Installation
Originally posted by allmotor_2000
Since you live in California and the dealer charges $360 for the
install... I'll do it for $200.
Since you live in California and the dealer charges $360 for the
install... I'll do it for $200.
09-12-2002, 10:03 AM
#66
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Re: Installation
Originally posted by allmotor_2000
Since you live in California and the dealer charges $360 for the
install... I'll do it for $200.
Since you live in California and the dealer charges $360 for the
install... I'll do it for $200.
09-12-2002, 11:40 AM
#70
Happy CL-S Pilot
Thread Starter
Okay guys... sorry no teasing were intended! I am really busy bein a new DAD. That is a lot of work.
First, I have the dyno graphs and I will post them today!...
Second, 2 dyno runs were made 1 before headers installation and After... Pulleys/ CAI and sparkplugs and 18" wheels are on with the baseline and the after dyno.
Mr. Wang refused to give me the raw data files
The gains are more than 20+ lbft of torque and more than 35 WHP..... the Mr. Wang was like
I quoted 35 WHP at 6500 rpm...
Acutally:
at <5000 rpms it's 20 lbft,
at 5500 rpms it's 25 lbft,
at 6000-7100 rpms it is 30 lbft and a MAX gain of 40 WHP...
Just wait 20 minutes and you will see the dyno graphs for yourself!
First, I have the dyno graphs and I will post them today!...
Second, 2 dyno runs were made 1 before headers installation and After... Pulleys/ CAI and sparkplugs and 18" wheels are on with the baseline and the after dyno.
Mr. Wang refused to give me the raw data files
The gains are more than 20+ lbft of torque and more than 35 WHP..... the Mr. Wang was like
I quoted 35 WHP at 6500 rpm...
Acutally:
at <5000 rpms it's 20 lbft,
at 5500 rpms it's 25 lbft,
at 6000-7100 rpms it is 30 lbft and a MAX gain of 40 WHP...
Just wait 20 minutes and you will see the dyno graphs for yourself!
09-12-2002, 12:17 PM
#78
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Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
OKay I uploaded the Dyno graphs to the ftp server... Now waiting for Scalbert to move them to the web server so I can link....
OKay I uploaded the Dyno graphs to the ftp server... Now waiting for Scalbert to move them to the web server so I can link....
2560x1920 is WAY too big to effectively post here.
1000 x 700 or so is the best.
Shawn S
