long tube header true dual exhaust ideas
01-14-2011, 02:55 PM
#1
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
long tube header true dual exhaust ideas
so ive been reading up on this atlp true dual and long tube j pipe for like 08 tls ...from what i see these two items might just bolt right up ... maybe a length issue on the true dual easy enough to fix ... all someone would have to do is get a shop to fabricate the section from the heads to the J pipe ...im gonna look deeper into this
01-14-2011, 03:16 PM
#4
fitted to the cl-s?
in your first post, you say ATLP, but show pictures of RV6.
Also, RV6 stated in the thread that the exhausts are proving to be more difficult than originally thought....he's only making a limited batch. once the batch runs out........
I'm sure he would still hold on to the plans to make more in the future.
I think the hard part that he's running into trouble is the custom tip work.
He's stated if you just want the exhaust with no tips it would be about 900 dollars.
in your first post, you say ATLP, but show pictures of RV6.
Also, RV6 stated in the thread that the exhausts are proving to be more difficult than originally thought....he's only making a limited batch. once the batch runs out........
I'm sure he would still hold on to the plans to make more in the future.
I think the hard part that he's running into trouble is the custom tip work.
He's stated if you just want the exhaust with no tips it would be about 900 dollars.
Last edited by justnspace; 01-14-2011 at 03:20 PM.
01-14-2011, 04:24 PM
#6
first I gotta say that looks DOPE.. however guys, sorry to burst your bubble but that's NOT a TRUE dual exhaust.
if it was it wouldn't meet up all at one spot where the CAT usually is.
True dual is when the exhaust piping is separate for each side of the motor all the way to the muffler.
as you can see....it goes from 2 to 1 to 2 again... no offence but that's defeating the entire purpose of this set up. It's more eye candy than anything.
that's a lot of crap happening in that location... pipes need to meet at the same time then the exhaust needs to reroute itself through one of the pipes. thus you are splitting the flow from each header (each side of the downpipe) every single time.. there is NO symmetry to this exhaust, which is exactly what you need when it comes to exhaust flow characteristics.
so, technically at that one spot it's actually more restrictive in a sense since the entire hydraulics of the exhaust is now screwed.
looks amazing tho, I'd like to see how much if anything you get off this set-up.
the craftsmanship is second to none so it seem tho so I'm not trying to discredit the builder cause it looks like they know how to do their shyt. Just saying.. if it was actually a true dual... I'd buy it for sure. And it'd make way more power... way more
if it was it wouldn't meet up all at one spot where the CAT usually is.
True dual is when the exhaust piping is separate for each side of the motor all the way to the muffler.
as you can see....it goes from 2 to 1 to 2 again... no offence but that's defeating the entire purpose of this set up. It's more eye candy than anything.
that's a lot of crap happening in that location... pipes need to meet at the same time then the exhaust needs to reroute itself through one of the pipes. thus you are splitting the flow from each header (each side of the downpipe) every single time.. there is NO symmetry to this exhaust, which is exactly what you need when it comes to exhaust flow characteristics.
so, technically at that one spot it's actually more restrictive in a sense since the entire hydraulics of the exhaust is now screwed.
looks amazing tho, I'd like to see how much if anything you get off this set-up.
the craftsmanship is second to none so it seem tho so I'm not trying to discredit the builder cause it looks like they know how to do their shyt. Just saying.. if it was actually a true dual... I'd buy it for sure. And it'd make way more power... way more
Last edited by CL-S progression 01; 01-14-2011 at 04:27 PM.
01-14-2011, 04:46 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
first I gotta say that looks DOPE.. however guys, sorry to burst your bubble but that's NOT a TRUE dual exhaust.
if it was it wouldn't meet up all at one spot where the CAT usually is.
True dual is when the exhaust piping is separate for each side of the motor all the way to the muffler.
as you can see....it goes from 2 to 1 to 2 again... no offence but that's defeating the entire purpose of this set up. It's more eye candy than anything.
that's a lot of crap happening in that location... pipes need to meet at the same time then the exhaust needs to reroute itself through one of the pipes. thus you are splitting the flow from each header (each side of the downpipe) every single time.. there is NO symmetry to this exhaust, which is exactly what you need when it comes to exhaust flow characteristics.
so, technically at that one spot it's actually more restrictive in a sense since the entire hydraulics of the exhaust is now screwed.
looks amazing tho, I'd like to see how much if anything you get off this set-up.
the craftsmanship is second to none so it seem tho so I'm not trying to discredit the builder cause it looks like they know how to do their shyt. Just saying.. if it was actually a true dual... I'd buy it for sure. And it'd make way more power... way more
if it was it wouldn't meet up all at one spot where the CAT usually is.
True dual is when the exhaust piping is separate for each side of the motor all the way to the muffler.
as you can see....it goes from 2 to 1 to 2 again... no offence but that's defeating the entire purpose of this set up. It's more eye candy than anything.
that's a lot of crap happening in that location... pipes need to meet at the same time then the exhaust needs to reroute itself through one of the pipes. thus you are splitting the flow from each header (each side of the downpipe) every single time.. there is NO symmetry to this exhaust, which is exactly what you need when it comes to exhaust flow characteristics.
so, technically at that one spot it's actually more restrictive in a sense since the entire hydraulics of the exhaust is now screwed.
looks amazing tho, I'd like to see how much if anything you get off this set-up.
the craftsmanship is second to none so it seem tho so I'm not trying to discredit the builder cause it looks like they know how to do their shyt. Just saying.. if it was actually a true dual... I'd buy it for sure. And it'd make way more power... way more
The reason the pipes meeting in the middle (Wich they should before the muffler) is for balance. It just like a "X-pipe" in a dual set up. It equalizes the pressure from each side. Just because it meets does not make it a fake dual set up. Itys not like its 2 into 1 for any legnth, just enough to balance it out. Its just cramped under that car. Its not like fox body where you have tons of room for a X-pipe. They just had to make do with the space they had.
The only thing I see thats not correct is the long tube header. (As mentioned in the title) Becasue it is not. They would be shorties. Long tubes would come from each head in three seperate pipes from each side and join a collector further downstream from the head. Thoes meet up too soon just like any other header for a CLS.
Any good dual exhaust will have an x-pipe.
http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl...=g-m1&aql=&oq=
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01-14-2011, 05:19 PM
#8
meeting up at the muffler is pretty much irrelevant, cause true dual IMHO means maximizing the flow up to the muffler.. and that car we are looking at does have separate mufflers bro.
i think you meant the mid muffler (and that's ok to use one) the flow is still separate i do believe. so that's just to save room by having 2 pipes going in and out.
how you do the muffler arrangement is strictly preference.
you should have an x pipe is completely not tru.. don't believe me..? look at a 350z which is still a v6 it's run completely separate all the way to the muffler which is shared to save room. and i've installed an aftermarket exhaust on a buddys car of mine and no x pipe.
and many v8s for that matter run separate exhaust.
i think you meant the mid muffler (and that's ok to use one) the flow is still separate i do believe. so that's just to save room by having 2 pipes going in and out.
how you do the muffler arrangement is strictly preference.
you should have an x pipe is completely not tru.. don't believe me..? look at a 350z which is still a v6 it's run completely separate all the way to the muffler which is shared to save room. and i've installed an aftermarket exhaust on a buddys car of mine and no x pipe.
and many v8s for that matter run separate exhaust.
01-14-2011, 05:53 PM
#9
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Knight - On the TL-S, you only have that option. They do not have headers in the normal sense. The headers have integrated collectors that dump to pre-cats then to the J pipe.
Progression - Many performance exhausts that make power have X or H pipes. This is an American Racing Headers b-pipe for a Vette. You can see the H pipe.
As far as the Z goes, look at the Stillen exhaust. It has an X pipe.
Not only that, in stock configuration, its really a single exhaust that goes into a muffler with two outlets.
TypeR, how much power was made with this setup? Im getting long tube headers made for myself at the moment. While they most likely will make more power down low and in the midrange, they will probably make just as much power up top compared to the CT headers. Im just curious if any extra power is to be had with the dual exhaust design from the header back compared to the extra weight gained.
Progression - Many performance exhausts that make power have X or H pipes. This is an American Racing Headers b-pipe for a Vette. You can see the H pipe.
As far as the Z goes, look at the Stillen exhaust. It has an X pipe.
Not only that, in stock configuration, its really a single exhaust that goes into a muffler with two outlets.
TypeR, how much power was made with this setup? Im getting long tube headers made for myself at the moment. While they most likely will make more power down low and in the midrange, they will probably make just as much power up top compared to the CT headers. Im just curious if any extra power is to be had with the dual exhaust design from the header back compared to the extra weight gained.
Last edited by civicdrivr; 01-14-2011 at 05:59 PM.
01-14-2011, 05:55 PM
#10
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
meeting up at the muffler is pretty much irrelevant, cause true dual IMHO means maximizing the flow up to the muffler.. and that car we are looking at does have separate mufflers bro.
i think you meant the mid muffler (and that's ok to use one) the flow is still separate i do believe. so that's just to save room by having 2 pipes going in and out.
how you do the muffler arrangement is strictly preference.
you should have an x pipe is completely not tru.. don't believe me..? look at a 350z which is still a v6 it's run completely separate all the way to the muffler which is shared to save room. and i've installed an aftermarket exhaust on a buddys car of mine and no x pipe.
and many v8s for that matter run separate exhaust.
i think you meant the mid muffler (and that's ok to use one) the flow is still separate i do believe. so that's just to save room by having 2 pipes going in and out.
how you do the muffler arrangement is strictly preference.
you should have an x pipe is completely not tru.. don't believe me..? look at a 350z which is still a v6 it's run completely separate all the way to the muffler which is shared to save room. and i've installed an aftermarket exhaust on a buddys car of mine and no x pipe.
and many v8s for that matter run separate exhaust.
01-14-2011, 06:05 PM
#11
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Got a link? Im lazy.
01-14-2011, 06:27 PM
#13
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
01-14-2011, 06:28 PM
#14
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
01-15-2011, 07:23 AM
#16
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
and why is that ? same engine u sure youre not talking about it reaching our heads? im talking about eliminating our cat and or repsotioning it slighlty with stock or a hi flow ... the path of the J pipe should line right up then its just a matter of someone to fabricate the down pipes from the heads ... i would take a set ofthe cheapy ones of ebay and get a shop to mimic that path but using much longer equal length priamarys like those civic had or is having made ... he showed a pic of them in some thread
01-15-2011, 06:02 PM
#17
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
The pic I posted in my build thread was P2Rs headers. Mine (I assume) will look similar.
02-04-2011, 02:06 AM
#19
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Im actually kind of pissed about that. I told Sean before he even listed them I wanted them, he said no problem, he'll let me know when theyre off the car. I heard from another person that they were sold a week later. I PM'd Sean and he said they were gone.
Mine are being made by Paul (NVA-AV6). Theyre still being made. Im getting the second set. The first is going in a Civic IIRC.
Just waiting on the piping for the J-pipe.
Mine are being made by Paul (NVA-AV6). Theyre still being made. Im getting the second set. The first is going in a Civic IIRC.
Just waiting on the piping for the J-pipe.
Last edited by civicdrivr; 02-04-2011 at 02:10 AM.
02-04-2011, 12:34 PM
#21
pretty sure that is not a mock up. The primaries are welded, not "tack" welded. Most of the headers you seen, used mild steel flanges.
NVA-AV6 uses high quality American Made Stainless Steel. Can't remember the type, but he uses the same quality stock for all of his exhaust work; welds, piping, flanges AND hangers.
He fabbed me a custom cat-back and its super quality material. Might not be polished and shiny but it will never show rust.
NVA-AV6 uses high quality American Made Stainless Steel. Can't remember the type, but he uses the same quality stock for all of his exhaust work; welds, piping, flanges AND hangers.
He fabbed me a custom cat-back and its super quality material. Might not be polished and shiny but it will never show rust.
02-04-2011, 02:30 PM
#22
Im actually kind of pissed about that. I told Sean before he even listed them I wanted them, he said no problem, he'll let me know when theyre off the car. I heard from another person that they were sold a week later. I PM'd Sean and he said they were gone.
Mine are being made by Paul (NVA-AV6). Theyre still being made. Im getting the second set. The first is going in a Civic IIRC.
Just waiting on the piping for the J-pipe.
Mine are being made by Paul (NVA-AV6). Theyre still being made. Im getting the second set. The first is going in a Civic IIRC.
Just waiting on the piping for the J-pipe.
02-04-2011, 03:32 PM
#23
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
pretty sure that is not a mock up. The primaries are welded, not "tack" welded. Most of the headers you seen, used mild steel flanges.
NVA-AV6 uses high quality American Made Stainless Steel. Can't remember the type, but he uses the same quality stock for all of his exhaust work; welds, piping, flanges AND hangers.
He fabbed me a custom cat-back and its super quality material. Might not be polished and shiny but it will never show rust.
NVA-AV6 uses high quality American Made Stainless Steel. Can't remember the type, but he uses the same quality stock for all of his exhaust work; welds, piping, flanges AND hangers.
He fabbed me a custom cat-back and its super quality material. Might not be polished and shiny but it will never show rust.
You mean like whats shown in post 2? Id have to redo my exhaust. I still havent seen how Paul plans to do the J-pipe though. Fedex decided to lose a package of materials
Last edited by civicdrivr; 02-04-2011 at 03:35 PM.
02-04-2011, 03:39 PM
#24
Three Wheelin'
I see now, I was on my laptop @ 3am, without my glasses. Now that I'm at work and can see, I did take a closer look at that last photo and it does look much thicker then I thought.
02-04-2011, 03:43 PM
#25
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Yea, that first pic is rather decieving, but you can kind of see the thickness in the last pic.
02-04-2011, 04:07 PM
#27
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I believe thats exactly what they will look like.
02-04-2011, 05:21 PM
#29
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Made to order IIRC.
Once he makes the first set, hes going to make a jig then make me my set.
Once he makes the first set, hes going to make a jig then make me my set.
02-05-2011, 12:07 AM
#30
Three Wheelin'
So what is he aiming for with these headers?
By the looks of it he is going for high rpm flow for peak numbers? The primary's are long but large diameter so I'm guessing the J32 will take a small hit on the low end TQ to make a larger gain up top.
Should complement the J32 well.
By the looks of it he is going for high rpm flow for peak numbers? The primary's are long but large diameter so I'm guessing the J32 will take a small hit on the low end TQ to make a larger gain up top.
Should complement the J32 well.
02-05-2011, 01:37 AM
#31
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
So what is he aiming for with these headers?
By the looks of it he is going for high rpm flow for peak numbers? The primary's are long but large diameter so I'm guessing the J32 will take a small hit on the low end TQ to make a larger gain up top.
Should complement the J32 well.
By the looks of it he is going for high rpm flow for peak numbers? The primary's are long but large diameter so I'm guessing the J32 will take a small hit on the low end TQ to make a larger gain up top.
Should complement the J32 well.
They should give me a decent bump in torque since the are long tube. They can work on the J32, but they are definitely geared towards the stroked motors. I dyno'd my car in December but I was running very rich, possibly because of the cracked headers on there now. I still made 294/275 though. Im hoping to get into the 300s with these, and then once I tune it I want 320-330whp. I want cams too, but...
Last edited by civicdrivr; 02-05-2011 at 01:41 AM.
02-05-2011, 10:36 AM
#32
i just want 250s with my auto with bolt ons and a PnP on my j32a2 and I will be happy as can be.
300s NA is unimaginable for me.. that must be a lot of work hidden under that hood to get that extra power..... aside from the whole 6 speed thing u got going....
300s NA is unimaginable for me.. that must be a lot of work hidden under that hood to get that extra power..... aside from the whole 6 speed thing u got going....
02-05-2011, 12:14 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
Hes got two different version, one for boosted motors and one for NA. I dont remember the dimensions.
They should give me a decent bump in torque since the are long tube. They can work on the J32, but they are definitely geared towards the stroked motors. I dyno'd my car in December but I was running very rich, possibly because of the cracked headers on there now. I still made 294/275 though. Im hoping to get into the 300s with these, and then once I tune it I want 320-330whp. I want cams too, but...
They should give me a decent bump in torque since the are long tube. They can work on the J32, but they are definitely geared towards the stroked motors. I dyno'd my car in December but I was running very rich, possibly because of the cracked headers on there now. I still made 294/275 though. Im hoping to get into the 300s with these, and then once I tune it I want 320-330whp. I want cams too, but...
02-05-2011, 02:37 PM
#34
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
i just want 250s with my auto with bolt ons and a PnP on my j32a2 and I will be happy as can be.
300s NA is unimaginable for me.. that must be a lot of work hidden under that hood to get that extra power..... aside from the whole 6 speed thing u got going....
300s NA is unimaginable for me.. that must be a lot of work hidden under that hood to get that extra power..... aside from the whole 6 speed thing u got going....
Yea, its a 3.6l. Im hoping they cure my AFR issue for the time being. My AFRs used to be great but with the cracked and leaking headers not all of the gases are hitting the O2s so the ECU thinks Im running lean and dumping more fuel in there. Im also pulling timing up top. Theres a good amount of power still on the table between the AFRs and timing.
02-05-2011, 03:06 PM
#35
Banned
Not a whole lot of magic going on under there actually. If I could do it again, I would have had alot more done to the heads and the oiling system.
Yea, its a 3.6l. Im hoping they cure my AFR issue for the time being. My AFRs used to be great but with the cracked and leaking headers not all of the gases are hitting the O2s so the ECU thinks Im running lean and dumping more fuel in there. Im also pulling timing up top. Theres a good amount of power still on the table between the AFRs and timing.
Yea, its a 3.6l. Im hoping they cure my AFR issue for the time being. My AFRs used to be great but with the cracked and leaking headers not all of the gases are hitting the O2s so the ECU thinks Im running lean and dumping more fuel in there. Im also pulling timing up top. Theres a good amount of power still on the table between the AFRs and timing.
02-05-2011, 03:29 PM
#36
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I dont feel comfortable saying how much I paid as its up to Paul to put a price on them. Just keep in mind that material alone is over $700.
02-05-2011, 04:00 PM
#38
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I havent seen any dynos of it without a stoker.
02-05-2011, 04:13 PM
#39
3.5 psi
iTrader: (1)
progression, look into Canadian Cylinder Head Technology. I've heard good things about them. You could get your manifold and runners done by them. Maxbore.com does TB porting. You send yours to them, they mail it back. Just some options...
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