EricL

Ok, there are a number of you guys that tossed your '01 and '02 autos (sold, upgraded, whatever) for a '03 MANUAL 6-speed.

If you like driving at 99% on mountain roads and did so with your auto + VSA, how has that changed anything with the manual?



BTW, do you ever miss VSA?

Syncros-CL6

Im not sure I know what you're asking....I never cared much for VSA because it never saved me in any situations....not to say that I dont think thats it has potential to do so....I just never had any "wow " experiences with VSA..Im neutral.....as for the 6 speed....this is my first (owned) manual and i LOVE it!!...but as others have said on this site....if you have to question it (trading for the 6 speed), you prob dont want to bother....

devnull

I had an '01 TL (close enough), and got rid of it for an '03 CLS6. My daily commute is 30 miles of back roads through north Jersey (hills and such). There is no comparison (IMO) to the traction gain of the LSD to the slight possibility of VSA saving you (of course, the '01 TL did not come in type-s, so I had traction control and not VSA). I have driven the type-s (non 6mt) before on my commute, and while I don't have an everyday firsthand knowledge of VSA, I still think the LSD is better (biased?).

More to the point, the clutch -vs- sport shift is where it is really at. And it is there that the 6 speed kicks A$$!!!

NSX-Tuner

I had a 2001 CL-S and noticed at times the VSA would kick in too early under certain conditions. At high elevations above 5k ft, in dry conditions, the VSA would start cutting engine power and/or applying opposite brakes when going slowly around corners. This made me feel really uncertain about the drivability of the car. At lower elevations, it seemed to behave in a way I would expect. It cut in where I would expect it to - when I was doing some hard cornering.

As for the traction control - it was a bit slow to respond. I would always get a couple of seconds of tire screech when I was on it.

On the other had, the 6 sp with LSD is much more predictable. Besides, with close ratio gears, you have a wide range of power choices when under cornering. Car just feels more drivable.

-g

scalbert

Eric, are you thinking about making the jump.

For me the ultimate test will be when I head up to western NC and get to drive the dragon. But without that experience I can say that the HLSD is different from the VSA from a feel perspective. Although the VSA was good, it did cut in too soon. The HLSD pulls you through the turns surprisingly well without interfering with your throttle steering control.

Seeing how I wanted a stick anyway it was well worth it.

mattg

am i correct in thinking if vsa is functioning, the light on the dash is blinking?

the only time i've noticed vsa was during wheelspin, not going around corners

i'm not sure what you guys mean about vsa cutting in too soon.

Red Rider

Yeah, if it cuts in it flashes. In hard driving in the twisties i've never seen it, but i did feel it on one run in the Bay area on some severe cornering at odd angles. I didn't see it cause i was too busy flying

darrinb

yea i'm w/ matt g, i only get it w/ wheelspin

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Ah, VSA kick some nice ASS......

Here are 2 events on the same road...
Going to the office, there is a small hill some 1/4 mile before the office parking lot. The road was still covered with snow/salt/sand... I hit the go pedal like 25% and the VSA light start flahing like crazy (it was the traction control) controling the front wheels spin and the CLS kept it posture like a tiger....

Coming back from the office, There was a big ass intersection...leading immediately to an overpass bridge... On the green light, i hit the accelerator a bit fast... and CLS picked up speed,...at the apex of the turn... it started to slide side ways... AND... the REAL VSA acted to correct that "incident", I flet like some one kicked the back of the CLS and get the car straight....

You see... Kool stuff....

EricL

Curiosity ... and anything is possible...

I had been looking through a number of posts and I just noticed less twisty stories with the 6-speed...

EricL

RE:
I drive an auto and manual on a "shift basis" anyway (depends...) I prefer a manual in the hills. I spent 20 years in a manual. I only get "bummed" in freeway traffic/sig-alerts when I'm in the manual and the speed gets so slow that I have to "modulate the clutch"/"brake"/"throttle to keep interlopers out of my lane. (My gimp knee gets tired on 2-hour commutes with the shifter and have managed to stay off the freeway of late).

I priced the cost of replacing a manual on my wife's Altima (still fine thanks) and it was 1/6th the cost of the slushbox (once out of warranty).

I also, can drive with out concern in the auto, and leave the VSA on. (I had a Bimmer and ever turn was a 4-wheel drift and never screwed up -- stick AND no VSA).

The simple question is:

Do you go faster and feel just as safe on the same roads with the LSD in the front with 6-speed vs. the auto.

Do the 6-speed people "enjoy" taking the car up into the hills and really hitting the curves.

Finally, has anyone ever brought the rear around now that it has a LSD in the front?

TIA (and thanks for the replies so far)

mattg

one thing i've noticed, despite the hlsd, the auto's launch as well or better at the track (1320).

about the twisties

DelawareCLS

I made the '01 auto to '03 6-spd move about a month and a half ago.

Besides the obvious wheelspin interventions, the only other time I noticed the VSA acting (though didn't notice the light coming on) was in changing lanes on a snowy road and beginning to fishtail as I hit a bit patch of snow. The rear was headed for the curb when it suddenly felt like it was put back on its original path. That was nice because I was expecting soem scrapes and dings on my wheels.

On twisties that I've driven both vehicles on, the 6-spd seems a bit skittish to me compared to the auto. Only on really tight, varying radius turns. This is likely because I'm carrying a little more speed into it and pushing the acceleration out of the curve. However, in normal driving I don't notice much difference.

In answer to one of your other questions, yeah I still like taking the 6-spd into the backroads and pushing it. It's nice to be able to hold a gear instead of hunting for the right throttle to get the gear you want (never like the sportshift). However, I don't like the handling near as much as I did in my '95 GSR - that thing was like a go-cart!

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

I only had VSA come on on wheel spin, & slamming the gas around turns. Never had any other issues with it. The HLSD in the 6 speed, I have no clue what it does, or is supposed to do. All I know is I have gunned it around a few corners & the car has hopped several times. I would prefer traction control too.

Nashua_Night_Hawk

No exucse for Acura NOT to offer a VSA on the 6-speed model... Doesn't offer that on Z350?

Shawn S

I don’t miss the VSA system in my 2001 CL at all.
I’ve been giving the LSD a good workout the past two days driving in the snow and it’s been working GREAT.
With that AND the control you get from a true stick shift Tranny there’s no compromise to be made at all.

There were quite a few sections of “black ice” that I came across on my way to work this morning.
Not dangerously slick, but enough to “feel” the car was a bit out of control.
Remember I’m running on four BLIZZAK snow tires too.
Unlike the Slush-box, if you FLOOR IT in a situation that there is no traction the wheels are gonna spin.
If you are easy on the throttle and in the correct gear you’ll pull through with complete control even with one wheel on snow and one and dry road.
The same is true for the wet weather.

“Spirited” driving on the curvy mountain roads is a blast.
Believe me, I know because this describes almost ALL the roads within 5-miles of my house.

I tried for almost 2-Years to “learn” how to drive the slush-stick system in the 2001 and it just wasn’t happening.
You can pick which gear you want most of the time, but there’s limited control of the engine RPM when switching gears.
Next month will be a year since my UPGRADE and it was worth every penny I paid for the swap.

VSA is kind of like an “idiot” system.
It’s designed to help you out if/when you make a mistake driving, but it’s somewhat of a hindrance if you know what you’re doing behind the wheel.

Shawn S

EricL

Well, I'm not so sure about the “idiot” part

They are used in F1 after giving up on trying to keep teams from "breaking rules" by hacking some kind of stealth traction control system into the car.

If it were such an awful idea/invention/system, you wouldn't find it on Ferrari's 575 and other cars that are meant for serious drivers.

As long as you can turn it off or modify its characteristic -- as is done on some vehicles -- it's basically a "plus" similar to ABS braking. I only wish I could switch the ABS on and off without hunting down the ABS fuse...

As for the "idiot" part, I get that's your opinion. IMO, if someone really is an idiot, the VSA isn't going to help them anyway...

At least there is a REAL handbrake in the 6-speed for "tricks"...

Zapata

OMG completely different. There is NO way i would've ever driven 99% on curvey roads with my AUTO. I did it once and if there would've been traffic coming i would've been in MAJOR trouble.

6MT.....WOW completely different. The car communicates relatively well and with the weight bias it's SOOOOOOOOOOOOO easy to know when you're going too far.

Miss VSA? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. If my wheels are spinning too much then i just shift Although if there were a VSA type system that i could have as an option on this car, I wouldn't hesistate to purchase it.


I feel more confident with the LSD because i know what the car is capable. That being said I don't push it as often because i know that the responsibility is MUCH MUCH more on my shoulders than before.

Swinging the tail around Muhahahahaahahah oh yeah VERY easily done. Especially with tires which aren't the greatest.

mattg

so how do you possibly survive without it

Scrib

Serious question...

What makes HLSD so superior to VSA? Does the 6MT really drive that much differently than the auto in terms of handling? REALLY???

scalbert

The thing I notice the most is in the throttle-on low speed turns. You can feel the HLSD pulling you through the turn. At first it feels kinda like torque steer but it is too controlled. Once you get the feel for it you can really utilize it by applying just the right amount of power to get you through a turn noticeably quicker.

Zapata

Night and day difference! Go out for test drive

Shawn S

Well, maybe “IDIOT” was a bit harsh, but you get the idea.

As for the F1 comparison, that’s not really valid.
Those guys push their cars 110% around every corner so they need the extra confidence.

I was referring to the inexperienced driver who plows too quickly into a rain-soaked curve or is too hard on the gas in the snow.
THAT’S who I believe the VSA system was designed for.

Shawn S