Honda 1000 or R1
02-11-2004, 08:53 PM
#41
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Was about to argue the point but decided to look it up first - you're right, 153 at the wheel. Guess I should have read it closer the first time. For raw power, the Kawi will probably be king this year.
As to picking a bike, it has to be more than a horsepower choice unless your goal is to be the coolest guy in front of Starbucks. You should see how you fit on it – if you get a chance to ride one, see how it feels. I find the Hondas are a little more street friendly - well, after you buy an after market seat anyway. Also like the electronic steering damper. Again, more about preference than anything else.
As to picking a bike, it has to be more than a horsepower choice unless your goal is to be the coolest guy in front of Starbucks. You should see how you fit on it – if you get a chance to ride one, see how it feels. I find the Hondas are a little more street friendly - well, after you buy an after market seat anyway. Also like the electronic steering damper. Again, more about preference than anything else.
02-12-2004, 08:22 AM
#42
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I agree it is going to come down to how comfortable I feel on either bike - I had looked at other bikes before buying my 7 and know that fit and feel are everything - and you are right - at this stage of performance - it really makes no difference on the street - I could go buy a Gixxer 600 or an R6 and still have way more power and handling than is really usable on the street - as for buying the badest bike - that is only true for 1 year - and then there is always a new king of the hill...
02-12-2004, 03:34 PM
#43
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definitely not a bad looking bike........ in fact, it looks similar to the R1......
02-12-2004, 03:44 PM
#44
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It is pretty bad looking - esp. from the front, but I am not a real big fan of the 2-tone body work - should have painted the lowers red and black to match.
02-12-2004, 04:18 PM
#45
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yeah no kidding..... a monochrome paint color scheme on a bike just makes it look more refined..... I was never a fan of two-tone bikes either..... this is just a pic I found quickly.
02-12-2004, 04:42 PM
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that is the color scheme - that one, silver and black with the grey bottom or all black which is cool, but I do not want a black bike in FL - too hot.
02-12-2004, 06:52 PM
#47
yeah the two tones do suck...ducatis look real nice with the all yellow or all red.....looks alone, the R1 in the special red/black is really nice...i just got a cbr600 f4i....pleased with honda, and its reliabilty..performance isnt too shabby either
02-13-2004, 04:29 AM
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Its a big change going from the 7R to either bike. I raced a '96 (exactly the same as your '99) for a few years and then bought the R-6 as soon as it came out. crashed it a bunch of times on the track as well as the street leaning over wayy too much. scraped the left engine cover lap after lap in turn one. on the 7, I was leading some friends through a set of twisties and at the end of a double apex turn I slid on some gravel, slammed into the guardrail, bounced off into the oncoming lane and nearly broke my wrists in a full lock to lock tank slapper. I twisted the throttle and just kept on leading through. the guys in the back had no idea what happened. just two guys that were right behind me saw. It popped the radiator and cracked the side fairing, but you just cant beat the heavy ZX-7R in stability. if you are just steet riding, save your money and keep the seven. If you are really itching to buy a new bike, R-1 hands down.
02-13-2004, 08:56 AM
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I think it's funny how everyone says R1 right away & the new 1000RR isn't even on the street yet.
Anyone that knows Honda or has ever owned one, knows they would not bring out a brand new bike only to be second fiddle to anyone else.
I think once the comparos start to roll in, peeps will see the Honda is no joke.
Anyone that knows Honda or has ever owned one, knows they would not bring out a brand new bike only to be second fiddle to anyone else.
I think once the comparos start to roll in, peeps will see the Honda is no joke.
02-19-2004, 11:10 AM
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From AMA magazine:
Magic RRocket Ride
Honda Ups The 1,000cc Ante!
You gotta love progress. Especially as it applies to 1,000cc sportbikes.
Not too long ago, big sportbikes were snarling, temperamental beasts. Lacking the development push that Supersport racing gave to 600cc machines, they tended to be—let’s be honest here—a bit rough-edged.
Sure, they had power. But they were also a bit heavy. And big. Out there in the real world, that meant you sometimes felt you were herding the bike, rather than riding it.
Then came the late ’90s, and suddenly, everything changed. Honda was on the right track with its CBR900RR series, but then Yamaha upped the ante significantly with the R1 in ’98.
Six years later, with Superbike racing focusing on 1,000cc machines, the factories are bringing the full force of their R&D budgets to bear on liter-bikes.
And that, friends, is a very good thing. Especially when it comes to Honda’s CBR1000RR, the latest sportbike from the company with a reputation for putting the “fine” in refinement.
Honda has done amazing things with its newest hypersport machine, as the world’s press learned in the bike’s introduction at Arizona Motorsports Park in late December.
This is a machine that, in race trim, allows an expert like Honda factory ace Ben Bostrom to get within a half-second of the Daytona lap record on his second day in the saddle. Yet someone like me—a humble track-day guy—can also get quite a bit out of the CBR1000RR.
Sure, you can go fast and scare yourself on this bike, as you’d expect from any cutting-edge hypersport motorcycle. What’s really impressive, though,
is that you can also go fast and not scare yourself.
Far from being a warmed-over CBR954RR, the triple-nought doesn’t even share a single part with its predecessor. The motor is a compact 998cc inline four with fuel management handled not by one injector per cylinder, but two, a lá the CBR600RR. One
injector is located just upstream of the venturi throat, while a second is in the airbox above each intake horn.
Intake and exhaust tracts are as trick as they come. The dual-stage ram-air system inhales through two small ducts on the front of the fairing up to 6,000 rpm. Above that, those close and a larger, central port opens. Spent gases exit through the under-seat exhaust, which contains a flapper valve that helps control noise and smooth out the power delivery with
variable back-pressure.
As impressive as the motor is—it puts out a claimed 173 horsepower yet is said to have plenty of tuning headroom for Superbike racing—it’s how the engine works with the frame and the swingarm that is the real magic of the thou’.
The key is the same Unit Pro-Link suspension that was developed for Honda’s RC211V MotoGP machine and saw its first production use in the CBR600RR.
It all centers on the rear monoshock. While the lower shock mount connects to a dogbone coming off the rear of the engine case, the top is attached through a linkage to the swingarm itself, with no direct connection to the frame at either end.
It sounds impossible, but it works, keeping road forces within the swingarm, and allowing the chassis to settle more quickly into and out of corners.
There are a ton of other goodies, too. A cassette six-speed transmission eases gear swapping. The dual four-piston brake calipers up front are radially mounted. Fuel is carried low in the frame to allow for more mass centralization.
Then there’s the electronic steering damper. Living atop the triple clamp, the unit has a damper valve that takes its cues from a map of road speed and acceleration. It’s designed to make the bike flickable at low speeds, but stable when you go faster—or even if you grab a big handful of throttle at low speed.
As I got on the bike in the Arizona Motorsports Park pits, the first thing that struck me was how compact it is. Pictures don’t do it justice. This really does feel like a 600.
Designed as a race platform, the CBR has a thin seat and amply rearset pegs. What would be a long reach to the low bars is offset by a seating position that is far forward, in keeping with the current trend of loading the front wheel for precise corning.
With all the technology built into the RR, you have to figure there’s a lot going on when you accelerate onto the front straight for the first time. But aside from an extremely small hesitation in high-rev on/off throttle situations, everything works so smoothly that you just forget about it.
That makes for an incredibly liberating experience. Instead of spending what little brainpower I have trying to locate and compensate for the machine’s quirks, I could focus my attention on things I was really interested in, like how I could go faster and faster, yet brake later and later with every lap.
The engine pulls from as low as 1,500 rpm, but comes into its own above about 7 grand. Acceleration builds up to the 11,650-rpm limit, with no serious hit anywhere. This means you can gather speed at a deceptively fast rate. You don’t even notice that you’re going 140 until your braking marker flashes past. Luckily, it doesn’t matter, because the front brakes are nothing short of spectacular.
As planted as the bike is on corner entrances, it’s even more confidence-inspiring on the exits, where the chassis settles with lightning speed. That allowed me to get on the gas so early it was startling.
Honda tester (and former world endurance racing champion) Doug Toland dialed in just a little extra compression and rebound damping at both ends for our racetrack test, and that was nearly perfect for me. (For tech heads, his settings were: Front compression max. -1.5 turns, rebound max. -1.5 turns, spring min. +7 turns, tire 33 psi. Rear, compression max. -5 clicks, rebound max. -1.25 turns, spring min. +7 stops, tire 35 psi.) Toland credits the unique rear suspension for the bike’s flawless manners, and since the similarly equipped CBR600RR exhibited the same rock-steady demeanor, I’m a believer.
When our sessions were over, I was left with a serious dilemma. We editors are supposed to be objective, giving the good with the bad. But all I could do was stare at the bike, trying to pick out something wrong with it so this review wouldn’t sound so hopelessly fawning. About the only thing I can say is that I didn’t have a chance to evaluate the bike on the street, where its race-inspired ergonomics and thin seat might not seem like assets.
In the end, it was tough to even ding it on price, since it will cost the same as last year’s Honda Superbike, the RC51, at $10,999. That’s the same as a new Kawasaki ZX10, or $400 more than the R1 and the Suzuki GSX-R1000R. And the Honda comes with the trickest steering damper in the business, stock.
That you can buy this level of competence right off the showroom floor is nothing short of amazing. This bike is going to make heroes out of a lot of racers—and a lot of regular shmoes, as well.—Grant Parsons
Magic RRocket Ride
Honda Ups The 1,000cc Ante!
You gotta love progress. Especially as it applies to 1,000cc sportbikes.
Not too long ago, big sportbikes were snarling, temperamental beasts. Lacking the development push that Supersport racing gave to 600cc machines, they tended to be—let’s be honest here—a bit rough-edged.
Sure, they had power. But they were also a bit heavy. And big. Out there in the real world, that meant you sometimes felt you were herding the bike, rather than riding it.
Then came the late ’90s, and suddenly, everything changed. Honda was on the right track with its CBR900RR series, but then Yamaha upped the ante significantly with the R1 in ’98.
Six years later, with Superbike racing focusing on 1,000cc machines, the factories are bringing the full force of their R&D budgets to bear on liter-bikes.
And that, friends, is a very good thing. Especially when it comes to Honda’s CBR1000RR, the latest sportbike from the company with a reputation for putting the “fine” in refinement.
Honda has done amazing things with its newest hypersport machine, as the world’s press learned in the bike’s introduction at Arizona Motorsports Park in late December.
This is a machine that, in race trim, allows an expert like Honda factory ace Ben Bostrom to get within a half-second of the Daytona lap record on his second day in the saddle. Yet someone like me—a humble track-day guy—can also get quite a bit out of the CBR1000RR.
Sure, you can go fast and scare yourself on this bike, as you’d expect from any cutting-edge hypersport motorcycle. What’s really impressive, though,
is that you can also go fast and not scare yourself.
Far from being a warmed-over CBR954RR, the triple-nought doesn’t even share a single part with its predecessor. The motor is a compact 998cc inline four with fuel management handled not by one injector per cylinder, but two, a lá the CBR600RR. One
injector is located just upstream of the venturi throat, while a second is in the airbox above each intake horn.
Intake and exhaust tracts are as trick as they come. The dual-stage ram-air system inhales through two small ducts on the front of the fairing up to 6,000 rpm. Above that, those close and a larger, central port opens. Spent gases exit through the under-seat exhaust, which contains a flapper valve that helps control noise and smooth out the power delivery with
variable back-pressure.
As impressive as the motor is—it puts out a claimed 173 horsepower yet is said to have plenty of tuning headroom for Superbike racing—it’s how the engine works with the frame and the swingarm that is the real magic of the thou’.
The key is the same Unit Pro-Link suspension that was developed for Honda’s RC211V MotoGP machine and saw its first production use in the CBR600RR.
It all centers on the rear monoshock. While the lower shock mount connects to a dogbone coming off the rear of the engine case, the top is attached through a linkage to the swingarm itself, with no direct connection to the frame at either end.
It sounds impossible, but it works, keeping road forces within the swingarm, and allowing the chassis to settle more quickly into and out of corners.
There are a ton of other goodies, too. A cassette six-speed transmission eases gear swapping. The dual four-piston brake calipers up front are radially mounted. Fuel is carried low in the frame to allow for more mass centralization.
Then there’s the electronic steering damper. Living atop the triple clamp, the unit has a damper valve that takes its cues from a map of road speed and acceleration. It’s designed to make the bike flickable at low speeds, but stable when you go faster—or even if you grab a big handful of throttle at low speed.
As I got on the bike in the Arizona Motorsports Park pits, the first thing that struck me was how compact it is. Pictures don’t do it justice. This really does feel like a 600.
Designed as a race platform, the CBR has a thin seat and amply rearset pegs. What would be a long reach to the low bars is offset by a seating position that is far forward, in keeping with the current trend of loading the front wheel for precise corning.
With all the technology built into the RR, you have to figure there’s a lot going on when you accelerate onto the front straight for the first time. But aside from an extremely small hesitation in high-rev on/off throttle situations, everything works so smoothly that you just forget about it.
That makes for an incredibly liberating experience. Instead of spending what little brainpower I have trying to locate and compensate for the machine’s quirks, I could focus my attention on things I was really interested in, like how I could go faster and faster, yet brake later and later with every lap.
The engine pulls from as low as 1,500 rpm, but comes into its own above about 7 grand. Acceleration builds up to the 11,650-rpm limit, with no serious hit anywhere. This means you can gather speed at a deceptively fast rate. You don’t even notice that you’re going 140 until your braking marker flashes past. Luckily, it doesn’t matter, because the front brakes are nothing short of spectacular.
As planted as the bike is on corner entrances, it’s even more confidence-inspiring on the exits, where the chassis settles with lightning speed. That allowed me to get on the gas so early it was startling.
Honda tester (and former world endurance racing champion) Doug Toland dialed in just a little extra compression and rebound damping at both ends for our racetrack test, and that was nearly perfect for me. (For tech heads, his settings were: Front compression max. -1.5 turns, rebound max. -1.5 turns, spring min. +7 turns, tire 33 psi. Rear, compression max. -5 clicks, rebound max. -1.25 turns, spring min. +7 stops, tire 35 psi.) Toland credits the unique rear suspension for the bike’s flawless manners, and since the similarly equipped CBR600RR exhibited the same rock-steady demeanor, I’m a believer.
When our sessions were over, I was left with a serious dilemma. We editors are supposed to be objective, giving the good with the bad. But all I could do was stare at the bike, trying to pick out something wrong with it so this review wouldn’t sound so hopelessly fawning. About the only thing I can say is that I didn’t have a chance to evaluate the bike on the street, where its race-inspired ergonomics and thin seat might not seem like assets.
In the end, it was tough to even ding it on price, since it will cost the same as last year’s Honda Superbike, the RC51, at $10,999. That’s the same as a new Kawasaki ZX10, or $400 more than the R1 and the Suzuki GSX-R1000R. And the Honda comes with the trickest steering damper in the business, stock.
That you can buy this level of competence right off the showroom floor is nothing short of amazing. This bike is going to make heroes out of a lot of racers—and a lot of regular shmoes, as well.—Grant Parsons
02-19-2004, 11:11 AM
#52
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CBR
SPEC SHEET:
Engine
998cc
liquid-cooled inline four
Carburetion
Fuel-injected
Transmission
6-speed
Brakes
Dual, full-floating radially mounted 310mm discs front; 220mm rear
Dry Weight
396 lbs. claimed
Price: $10,999
SPEC SHEET:
Engine
998cc
liquid-cooled inline four
Carburetion
Fuel-injected
Transmission
6-speed
Brakes
Dual, full-floating radially mounted 310mm discs front; 220mm rear
Dry Weight
396 lbs. claimed
Price: $10,999
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