jimcol711

GTPs are now officially track proven to be capable of running high 11 second runs with no NOS.....all engine.....check the link...

http://www.clubgp.com/forum/topic.as...GP+%2D+General



next time any of you guys want to trash talk GTP's, think twice as they are WAAAAAAY faster than CL-S....its doubtful a CL-S with the supercharger could even touch those times......just watch out for these beasts on the street...as modded GTP's are in the same 1/4 mile time class as corvettes, supra, m3, etc.....way above CL-S

TL_Type_S

Bro, I don't think you'll be seeing many 11 second GTP's on the road any time soon ... best of luck in your hunt, though.

And by the way, I read the link, and this person is obviously very knowledgeable about his engine, his car, and modding it. I respect guys like him. What I don't respect are the punks I get around my city streets driving their BIZZ-BONE stock GTP's that like to squeal their wheels and race to the speed limit.

jimcol711

true, only 3 have been proven in the 11's but many many many gtps are in the 12's

Zapata

Are you kidding me??????????? CLS with headers/i/spark plugs will hit high 13's. Add a supercharger and turn up the boost......


Geeze man that dude has modded PCM as well!!!!!! COME ON MAN!! You are giving GTPs WAY and I mean WAY too much credit.

GS400_PUSHER

Good for that guy! Ask him hows his realiblity is and its a trailier car! I bet he don't drive it as a daily driver.......And I can bet you you won't see alot of 11sec GTP around ever! I also bet he has alot of money into his engine (10,000)

ThoroDredCLS

Exactly!!!!!!! Dude on our board with just CAI and AUTO is running 13.7 with NOS. ALL MOTOR! Now lets add, super charger like the GTPs, better pulleys on the supercharger, headers, better tires, exhaust, APEXI vtec controller ANNNNNDDDD WHALAAAAA!!!! You got a low 12 sec 11 sec CLS of coarse, you have to strip the cls interior like most of the GTP GUYS DO with drag radials. WAY TO MUCH CREDIT for GTP guys.

Now that we have a supercharger how about a friendly race with a GTP. Supercharged 3.8 GTP vs Supercharged CLS 3.2 stock for stock Well i mean same setup. Let's see who smokes who now. I am personally looking into the supercharger around next year taxes, and I will personally start hunting down gtps.

thoro

ThoroDredCLS

OOPS! Well not all motor. Like Zapata said, change the boost, better pulley kit, and you got your self a very fast cls.

jimcol711

first of all, the guy with the 11 second GTP is a daily driven car....its got a roll bar but its not gutted....so dont think its some gutted out trailer queen....and seriously, i dont beleive we will ever see an 11 second, hardly even a 12 second CL-S....a CL-S with headers, intake, exhaust, spark plugs, pullies wont run less than 14.2 TOPS....sure, throw on a wet 80 shot, you gonna get down to mid 13's....but you take a cl-S with I/H/E, spark plugs, pullies, AND add that supercharger with its weak boost (4 lbs, right??) and MAYBE youll get mid 13's....there is no way a CL-S will get into GTP territory without 3.5 conversion, I/H/E, sparks, pullies, supercharger, AND NOS....then maybe it will hit a high 11 second run..but at what cost???

2500 = 3.5 liter conversion
1500 = 3.5 install (roughly)
1100 = headers and install
220 = intake
270 + 75 = pullies and install
100 = spark plugs
550 = exhaust
3900 = supercharger
1000 = supercharger install (roughly)
400-800 = desperately needed tires to handle this shit
600 = NOS kit


add that up you got about:

$12,565!!!!! all that to get a CL-S near a GTP..and the GTP's running the 11's...id be surprised if he spent more than $6,000 total on mods.

ThoroDredCLS

JIM - Stock for Stock we are even if not better. Why so much talk over the gtps. Even if i would want to run a GTPs and get a 11sec car i would rather buy a WRX and burn the phuck out of a gtp. Cls is not a drag car. I would be happy to see a 11sec cls, but with no rear wheel drive, and bulk weight I don't think so. And who cares about the GTP guy running those times. I am still not going to respect that car. If i were to buy a pontiac it would be the GTO and THATS IT! Then lets talk. For right now, i would rather lose to the gtp and mack the driver's girl staring at my car, then drive that shit everyday. 11 sec or not. I would rather have a 11 sec vette and modd that until i can't modd any further.

Punk em all 733

Before we even start comparing both cars with SCers, I would like to see how long those aluminum blocks will last with FI.

darrinb

My lil bros friend has a gtp, i think hes just got an intake, but any ways i want a piece of him(his car). Imma have to show him whats up when we race. I think i can beat a stock GTP w/ my driving skill. Some guy aroung my age ran 15.8's in his stock gtp the day i went to the track and ran a 15.2. I also hate to mag race but the cl-s is faster in the mag tests too!!

Zapata

For the Auto CLS an 12 sec run might be hard. HOWEVER, you are smoking some serious shit to think the 6MT is a 14.2 w/ headers intake exhaust, plugs, pullies........

GTP territory???????? What ? That guy car has had SHIT load of engine work done and you are making it seem like this is a STOCK GTP that's running. GIVE ME A BREAK.

Comptech SuperChrager will put out CONSERVATIVE 8lbs of boost. That 3.8L is a weak design.....the saving grace is the S/C....

Don't get me wrong the GTPs are nice cars but don't make it seem like they are world beaters.

Punk em all 733

darrinb-Those were either sick GTPs or you were watching Gts racing. My GTp stock ran a 14.6, and it would have been a tenth or two better if I had controlled wheelspin better. Go to clubGP and you'll see most GTP owners have ran mid to high 14s stock with quite a few in the low 14s, one freak even ran a 13.9 with about 200 witnesses.


zapata-(The ignorance is bliss comment was for you.) You obviously don't know shit about these engines, but I'm here to help.

The 3.8 in the GTP (L67), was rated as one of the top ten engines of the past 100 yrs. It is actually one of the stoutest engines out there, and it's cleaner burning than than even the VQ family(Maxima, Altima, G35,etc) and the 3.2 in the Cls. All this from a 40 yr old engine design!

One guy Scott Cook and his company Intense are converting the M112 the Lightning SC to fit on GTPs, with these SCers these engines with an IC will be able to handle 20 lbs of boost! www.3800performance.com that's his company's site go to the future products section and take a look. Let's see Comptech's SC put out more than 8 lbs of boost, without the engine going BOOM!

The guy who hit 11s in a GTP (no nos) his name is Zoomer, he did that with the stock SC (M90). But he's coming out with a CSC, here's his sitehttp://www.zzperformance.com alot of good technical info. With his CSC 10s should bee seen. Once his IC comes out 12 sec GTPs will become common, and once these two kits come out 11 sec GTPs shouldn't be too hard to find.

These two kits will both be around $5,000-6,000 with all the parts to support them.

Zapata

Ignorance nothing..........


Ok first of all i'm sticking with my original statement. 3.8L of displacement to get a piddly 200hp 225ft-lbs of trq? WEAK

Acura 3.2L n/a is putting out 260hp and 232 ft-lbs of trq......acura 3.5L n/a 300HP/260ft/lbs.

Second:
http://www.landofsky.org/cleancars/ranking.htm

I don't see the beloved 3800 anywhere.


Don't gimmie crap about the comptech S/C....they've run HIGH boost on the real-time racing NSX for YEARS!

What you MEAN to say is the difference in the engine material.....aluminuim V. iron. Hence you statement about a weak Comptech s/c is lame.

Punk em all 733

They wanted this car to be a reliable family car, but these engines can take the power, these are the same engines in the Grand National with a few parts being different.

About running high boost, I'll reserve jugdement till I see a CL running 15+ lbs of boost.

One more thing for roughly $2,500-3,000 a GTP would be deep in the 12s, for $6,000-7,000 A GTP will be in the 11s, were would the CL be?

vineuh

Hey guys, 1st reply and probably the last....
I like seeing the talk about our cars on other sites and i like knowing some guys have respect for our cars and our guys who are moddin the sh*t out of their cars. There are the die-hard guys like zoomer who will put the GTP on the map, but i cant see there will be a ton of cars doing what hes doin. I would estimate 12's to be the norm in the next little while.
You guys seem to have a good site and this thread hasnt been all that bad for trash talk...but when you are lookin for a GTP to run against.....dont go driving around wasting fuel, head over to clubgp....im sure someone there will oblige a good ole fashion ass kickin!!
Keep an eye on that rear view mirror....you never know what might pull up behind you...
btw...nice to see some civilized talk on the net

widerGTP

First off I just wanna say Hi.

Secondly I don't know much about CL-Ss. I do however know a couple of things when it comes to powerplants and vehicle systems. My question is "What is the fastest known stock trim auto CL-S?"

I'll admit the original post could have been taken as "abrasive" to some. Regardless; it is apparent that a few of the members from this board could use some education on this topic. I won't point fingers yet. I believe I came by this board before and know this has been a contested debate for some time. Let's see what develops from this thread.

Zapata

vineuh,
The first and last argument is the 3.5L coversion...... you saw it 300hp/260ftlbs of trq n/a with the S/C you'll be pushing 350hp/300 ftlbs or trq on a car with HLSD.


Punk em all 733,
WHat do you call the 3.2L SOHC!? It is by no means a performance engine. Again, stop talking about the GTP as if they run 12's stock.
If you want a comparison, get a 3.5L S/C v. GTP. The fact remains the N/A engine with .6L less displacement does pretty well againts a S/C engine with more displacement
A CL owner would be MAD if they ran 15lbs of boost. Aluminium block simply won't take the abuse for too long with some work. I'm talking STOCK setup v. STOCK setup. NO high boost, no drag slicks, NO ECU, rocker arms, TB spacer etc.,

Punk em all 733

Well stock for stock it's a driver's race, and don't gimme that BS that a Cl will win everytime.

I AM NOT talking about this car as if it'll run 12's stock, please don't start putting words in my mouth.

widerGTP

O.k. Zapata. Stock vs stock. Putting the benchracing magazine times aside, A stock GTP on an average runs a mid 14 sec 1/4 mile. I'm not versed in real world auto CL-S times. Maybe you could provide something? We are comparing full trim stock auto times.

As you may or may not know a manual exibits less parasitic loss then an auto tranny at the exspense of less consistancy. An auto saps more power but is very consistent. So if a manual was offered for the GTP, I'd be willing to bet an experienced driver will best the times of the auto. For arguements sake I'm trying to keep all things equal as much as possible.

mattg

:whocares: there is also noone who has opened up the motor on a cl-s to mod it. and the gtp has a .3L advantage on us plus a supercharger.

they are fast, obviously. but i never see any modded ones around. and i don't waste gas on the stock ones.

Punk em all 733

What kind of car ya got? what mods? And finally what do ya run 1/4?

Maximized

Why is there an arguement here? On average the GTP is a faster car. I have personally seen many GTPs run low 14's, some 13's, and a few 12 second passes. All the times I have been to the track I have never seen one CL-S run. In fact last time I went, I posted here that I was going and asked if anyone would like to come. Face the facts, GTP's are a lot easier to mod than CL-S's. Quit making up stupid excuses such as...... well you have more displacement or if i throw a S/C on...blah blah blah.

Punk em all 733

I couldn't have said it better myself

widerGTP

Probably a good reason for it.

GeTePe

So.. your car isnt even broken in yet and you are at the track? Seriously someone should bitch-slap you. Unless of course you like burning oil at 30k miles.

With that said, let me put a disclaimer on my post: I think the CL is an excellent looking car. I'd even buy one if the situation arose. I am in no way trying to bash your car in the least.


Okay. Lets start with a couple simple questions:

1) What is the fastest CL you guys have, with timeslips and legitimate documentation? Period.. any mods.. no holds bar.. most powerful CL. I dont care about "well if we did this and this and this it will be this fast" I care about what is in existance. Paper racing only goes so far.

2) What does an average modded CL run? Im talking.. say.. $1200 worth of mods. How far will that get you? And please disqualify yourself if you are spraying.

As for the GTPs-

We all know in response to #1, that Zooomer has run 11.9 in a fully streetable, and daily driven, full interior, GTP with factory supercharger and no NOS. And you guys are correct.. he is the only one, and is out in the front of GTP development.

We also know that $1200 in a GTP will get you:
-High ratio rocker arms ($330)
-3.25" SC Overdrive pulley ($70)
-Fender Intake (~$100)
-Full custom exhaust (3" DP, Hi flow cat, high flow muffs) (~$350)
-Re-programmed PCM (no, we cant "chip" our cars, a new CAL needs to be burned into the PCM.. this is all this is) ($300)

Total: $1150.00

And there has been many people with that setup, and track mods (tire pressure, race gas, remove spare tire) but full interior that run 13.4-13.6 consistantly.

Please be honest here. I am trying to have an intelligent conversation here, more to satisfy my own curiosity than spark some rivalry. If your average modded CLs are running mid 13s, then lets leave it at that. However, something tells me they arent.

Not only are the GTPs fairly easy to get deep into the 13s, we also have a very healthy list of people currently running in the 12s. The list is growing weekly, and soon Im confident that they will be commonplace.


As far as a GTP running 15.8 stock... Id bet it was a GT you were seeing. Dont laugh at GTs either. There are MANY that are into the 14s with some basic intake and exhaust mods.

I hate how you import drivers are so quick to judge us domestic owners. I could care less if its domestic or foriegn (well.. unless its a ford - cant stand them) if its a nice car I'll respect it for what it is. You guys drive nice performance sedans. Us GTP drivers drive nice performance sedans. However, I believe our cars have more aftermarket support as well as more potential in the straightline performance arena.

Please respond to my questions in a positive way, as I have approached them as such. Sorry for being so long winded.

Sonna Magill

Alright kids. Let's say GTPs have .3 more liters of displaement. Sure we should be making so much more hp. Whatever, nice little argument. But, what happens when an otherwise stock GTP with an easy 70 dolla pulley swap can beat a car with .8 more liters of displacement and two more cylinders??? Well, the GTP is the victor, and the car i speak of is the 99+ Mustanger GT!!!

I personally own a mustang gt and I feel pathetic when a GTP with a "lowly" 3.8SC engine mops the floor with me. I can make up all these excuses about "yeah but they are modded i am stock" oh shut up!!!!!!!!!, CLs suck dick and reach their tongue over to my anus and lap it up at the same time and you know it.

"well the Cl isn't made for racing" YOU IDIOTS! IF IT IS NOT MADE FOR RACING THEN WHY ARE YOU RACING??????

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to you!

That and what costs more? hmm? YOu people disgust me.

Oh and anything with a tie to honda, can suck my 13 inch hog-like Schlonger.

Zapata

Oh please educate us

Punk em all 733

You sir are an asshole, he was being polite (even though there is no need for that) And wanted to be enlightened on the CL's engine, and you have to be a sarcastic asshole.

You are nothing more than a bag of shaved pubic hairs (from a female no less) that's been pissed on, and left in the sun for too long. You ignore the two posts before yours to say that you fuck!
Pathetic!

You don't know shit of GTPs, but your so quick to talk it. FUCKING PUNK!!!

Zapata

First of all, GTP owners NEED to slow your roll. None of the respected owners on this board will tell you that the CLS will stomp the GTP all day long.....not one. GTP is a great car and for the $ you can make it a great go fast car. MOREVER, performance parts for our car cost a bit more than for the GTP.

Second,
There is NO domestic v. import trash talk here. Both have great cars so please understand that. Apparently, SOMEBODY from this board felt that we were GTP bashing or whatever and decided to call in the cavalery......WE WERE NOT. This thread started with somebody hailing the GTPs and i said they are great cars but don't make it out to be something more than it is......FI will do awesome things to a performance on a car.


GeTePe,
You are comparing a FI car against a N/A car and both cars have the same # of cylinders so thrown dollar amount of mods doesn't provide an accurate comparison of the two cars. Money goes alot farther on a FI car than it will on a N/A.


14.6 stock is the fastest stock auto CLS. Timeslips to prove it. I witnessed it with my own eyes.




Sonna Magill,
Ok KID....first things first, GTPs have .6 liters of additional displacement! Go now.....run back to where ever it is you crawled here from........ 99 GT CLS often run neck and neck against the rustang gt's. You better have a little then this..........what else you got. Excuses........no, it's called discussing relevant facts.

widerGTP,
I know the benefits of auto v. manual. Comptech is currently making a S/C for our engines. Our cars don't recieve the aftermarket support your cars do so opening up an engine and "modding" isn't as easy. However, one of the pioneers of mods for this car.... Syncivic (doug) developed a number of mods: 1- RES 2- 3.5L conversion 3- 3.5L full short block coversion 3- MMII is a electrical mod that offers 15hp/15ft-lbs of trq. So we pretty much have scratch and fight for every mod we get.

Zapata

This is what i mean, i respectfully responded to your posts and you are gonna go apeshit because I responded in kind to what widerGTP ran. He's gonna wait and see what we say and then educate us???????? He admits that he doesn't know about the CLS and somehow he sits above people? NO sorry........if you have something to share then share but don't roll on to this board acting like some wise elder and then EDUCATE those of us who need educating..........


Also, enough with the profanity! You are getting this worked up over a car????????? Go outside, get some fresh air and calm down.

What exactly don't i know about GTPs? I don't remember you or any of your cronies correcting a single thing i said. In fact, I had to correct a few things you said.

widerGTP

Looks like you feel the finger was pointed at you ZA PATO.

GTP's have been running 12s for a long time now. Aftermarket support has been picked up because obviously people think it is worth while. The L67 config of the 3800 series II is well suited for modifications. In it's stock form it is pretty much bulletproof. The whole point of concern when modding this engine is controlling KR. KR = Knock Retard. This is where the the PCM retards the timing to compensate for the knock the sensors are giving off. Knock occurs from detonation. Detonation is a premature ignition of the intake charge. Currently there is a intercooler kit that aids greatly in reducing KR. Cold air intake, colder plugs, free flowing exhaust, Reprogrammed PCM, higher ratio rockers and smaller SC pulley (upping the boost) are simple mods to perform. Once the traction issues are taken care of along with lowering KR the car is well on it's way. The potential of the L67 is there for the taking. More involved mods are to had as well. I know in my area there are quite a few low 13 sec GTPs on the road and a couple 12 second GTPs. Those low 13 second cars are only limited by the drivers finances. The potential is there, get over it. CL-Ss ....... hhmmmm. I haven't seen any fast ones around here.

GeTePe

You guys are skirting my questions. Answer them truthfully, so we can put this one to rest. You guys are comparing your CL's to GTPs, so the SC and displacement should be of no consequence. Car for car, the GTP is faster. Admit it.


Your interior on the other hand.. well I wish I could have one like that in my GTP.

Punk em all 733

All the shit ya just said was cool. That's what you should have said in the beginning. But you had to come out and be a dick, not only about the cars but the 3800 series II. Any one with a compotent intelligence, will tell ya that these are better engines then the 3.2. That's a fact. The only thing the 3.2 does better is revving. I'm not flaming when I say this, it''s the truth.


EDIT: Like GeTePe said I do wish I had your guys' interior sweeeeet!

widerGTP

Intresting interpretation of my original comment.

Instead off being so defensive you might have seen that some ignorant statements were made and I just wanted to see some "backing up" before I start ranting on people. I'd rather give people a chance before spewing. Chill out.

Punk em all 733

Forget you zap a potato, can anyone who owns a cl with some intelligence talk about these cars.

Zapata

I'm glad we are having a nice discussion about this topic!!!! Thanks for stopping over and by all means please don't leave after this discussion is completed!!!!! We have love everybody here!!!!

To both of you..........you apparently think that FI offers such little advantage over N/A that you will discount its presence in an engine comparison.........how can you think this? What is your defense.

NOBODY IS comparing the CLS to the GTP. Read the original post!!!!!!! YOu might have some people on this board who will compare FI and N/A but most will tell you that it's a hard comparison to make and often any discussion involing such often has no conclusion.

Also, nobody said that the CLS was FASTER than the GTP. Cripes......

Nobody is sideskirting your questions. I answered each of them. Re-read my post.

widerGTP

Also; saying I don't know much about CL-Ss entails typical problems, ride, comfort, handling and the like. I personally have never driven one.

GeTePe

You people are impssible. Read the comments on the first page. Everyone and their dumbshit brother are talking up how the CL is so fast with this and this and this, and how too much credit is being given to GTPs...

Well last time I checked, credit and respect were earned by PRODUCING numbers! Not talking about what your car COULD do with certain things. I am starting to have the impression we have a regular ClubSI over here.

widerGTP

Yup read it again. Still sounds the same.