IntegraVT

iTrader: (1)

[From Motor Trend, just FYI...]

General Motors Corporation has asked the federal government to require all automakers to install daytime running lamps (DRLs) on new vehicles sold in the United States. GM made the request in the form of a petition filed this morning with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) in Washington, D.C. The petition covers passenger vehicles, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, and buses.
"We have overwhelming evidence that daytime running lamps reduce crashes, thereby potentially saving lives and preventing thousands of injuries," says Robert C. Lange, GM Executive Director, Structure and Safety Integration. "DRLs are clearly one of the most cost-effective crash-avoidance features on the road today. The bottom line is that DRLs offer real benefits to motorists and improve roadway safety."

Last year, an independent study concluded that GM customers have avoided more than 17,000 vehicle crashes (GM estimates this figure has jumped to 25,000 since the study). This represents more than a five-percent reduction in daytime, multi-vehicle non-rear-end collisions since the company began equipping vehicles with daytime running lamps in 1995.

"In addition to these types of crashes, we know that DRLs reduce urban daytime vehicle-to-pedestrian crashes by about 9 percent, and that many of these crashes involve children. We believe every new light-duty vehicle sold in the U.S. should be equipped with daytime running lamps so that these very apparent and documented safety benefits will be extended to everyone," says Lange.

Several other studies, including those conducted by the NHTSA; the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety; and European and Canadian transportation officials, have underscored the safety benefits of daytime running lamps
---

Scorpius

For once, I agree with GM. Thsic cars still suck... but they seem to have a point.

Shawn S

I hate DRL’s for MANY reasons.

If Acura decides to install them on future cars, it will be the first FUSE that gets pulled while I am installing my V1.

Shawn S

Satin Slayer

DRL's have been a fact of life up here in Canada for the past several years. It really is a big help during daytime driving...can't even remember how it is driving without DRL's nor would I ever go back to a non-DRL car.

Satin Slayer

What reasons???

mistacanyon

How exactly was that study conducted? Let me guess, number of accidents of cars without DRLs vs number of accidents of cars with DRLs. Give me a break. We already have enough laws regarding manditory headlight use. I agree, if they mandate DRLs that will be first thing I fix on my car.

Shawn S

Here’s a few.
I know some are petty, but it’s just my opinion.

1) Wastes gas by causing extra drag on the alternator

2) Causes lights to burn out sooner because of extra use

3) Makes an Emergency vehicle less noticeable because EVERYONE has their lights on.

4) Just plain STUPID when the sun is shining in the middle of July.

5) Makes Motorcycles blend in with other traffic instead of standing out.

6) Having just a few vehicles on the road with them may seem to cause a difference with accidents, but if EVERYONE had them you would get used to it and they wouldn’t stand out as much.

7) Using the “HIGH BEAM FLASH” to warn of an accident or Speed Trap ahead would be less effective then going from full OFF to full ON.

8) SUV’s in traffic are annoying enough already without those HUGE lights shining thru you rear window ALL hours of the day.

I drive a BRIGHT RED car and people still pull out right in front of me.
I really don’t think DRL’s would help improve the SAD state of driving habits in this country.

I think the only positive thing about them is they go on automatically when CLUELESS drivers should have them on like when it is foggy or raining.

Once again the auto makers are trying to force something on us to correct e FEW bad habits.
Kind of like the warning on the NAV screen that you have to hit EVERY time you start the car.

Shawn S

CO-CL-S

I don't see where it is to the auto makers advantage to have lights on? I find most of your arguements to be unsupported. Your opinion, mine is different.

mistacanyon

I would guarantee there is some advantage. Car manufacturers are a lot more shady than people think. It could be genuine concern, but I'm always a pessimistic :sqnteek: I'll try to scout out this whole DRL thing when I get time.

mrdeeno

i read another article about this also...but it presented the fact that gm's studies are severely flawed.

how so you might ask? they included accidents that happened at night in their study.

i don't like daytime running lights either and am glad honda/acura hasn't jumped on that bandwagon. along with the auto-locking doors that piss me off everytime i get a rental car (usually a grand prix).

Scorpius

My manure brown buick had the same thing. Also, why does the horn honk when you enable the anti-theft system? I pull in at home and wake the whole neighborhood. All I need is a beep and a flash of theparkinglights... Then again, who would steal a brown Buick Century...

mrdeeno

shoot...didn't get a chance to finish my post.

it also further explained how some more accurate tests showed some decrease in accidents, but not an decrease enough to "mandate" drls.

instead of educating and training people to be aware and drive safely, drl's cater to those people who are not as aware as they should be when driving. like certain handicapped drivers and stuff...not all, but some are a major danger on the road, but instead of taking their licenses away, they give them an incentive to drive by letting them park closer to where they want to go!

back in college there was a kid in my freshman english class. we were going around the room introducing ourselves and indicating one major accomplishment and this kid tells everyone, "my accomplishment is that i got my driver's license. it's major, because i'm considered illegally blind but knew the guy that was conducting the test."

shit like that really pisses me off.

BNut

AMEN BROTHER!

I see this as a cheap ploy by GM to use the government to FORCE their competitors to install daylight running lamps which WILL increase vehicle costs and lower profits.

I will be second after to Shawn to pull my DRL fuse if Honda or Acura ever go that route.

BNut

P.S. I drove a Pontiac Grand AM SE for 5 days once and that car annoyed the F*CK out of me! It automatically locks your doors when you start the car or put it in drive (can't remember which). It would automatically turn on my headlights when it sensed it was dark outside.

JRock

I would either disable them or move to Canada. Fuck DRLs.

Having two more lights on a car does not prevent retarded drivers from driving retardedly.

JRock

Yes those retarded features get even better: When you put it in park, it automatically UNlocks the doors. Oh yeah, THAT'S really safe.
(Consider the times you might put your car in park in a dangerous area where you do NOT want your doors to unlock.)

GM has started making Cars For Retards - everything is automatic on them: lights that go auto-on, DRLs, can't turn off the domelight, doors that lock/unlock depending on the gear you're in, etc.

Fuck GM.

mrdeeno

the grand prix i had actually locked the doors going into 'park' but didn't unlock them until the ignitino turned off.

do you know how many times i open the door with the engine running? at least once a day. and do you know how annoyingly hard it is to figure out which of the exact same buttons is lock or unlock? and do you know how annoying it is to figure out which way to push the switch to lock and unlock? i had a grand am rental car before, and the "unlock" direction on the switch was actually OPPOSITE of the directon on the grand prix!

and gm wonders why they're cars don't sell.

Wxguy95

Hate DRLs, and will get rid of the fuse for it in the dealers lot. The reason is along the lines of what Shawn said, if everyone has them, they will hide motorcycles and stranded motorists.

Everyone keeps saying fuck GM, hehe go to
www.fuckgeneralmotors.com and wait for 10 seconds... it redirects to ford.com

-Mike

Scorpius

Yeah... and Ford is so much better. Thats like jumping from the hot pavement onto the shards of glass.

gto2050

Well.....lemme give you my take.

1. As a motorcycle rider, the one thing we have as an advantage is headlights on. We stand out in traffic because of headlights on.
2. If every car has DRL's, motorcycles become invisible once again.
3. DRL's serve a purpose in a country such as Canada, Sweden, Finland, and states such as Northern Michigan, Minnesota, Alaska, etc. They do drive around in more "twilight" than the rest of us.
4. In the rest of the US, if everyone has DRL's, how are you gonna stand out? It's just a sea of lights!
5. GM is trying to do nothing more than cheapen its manufacturing costs. DRL's are mandated in certain areas and they have to build 2 wiring harnesses to make a car. Making DRL's mandatory relieves them of this responsibility.
6. I refuse to buy a car that comes with DRL's.
7. More and more cars are coming with them every day. There is absolutely no proof that they have saved even one life.

If you wish to read more and join a group against DRL's go to http://lightsout.org.

My $.03.

gto2050

Correct link is http://www.lightsout.org/

BC

I have been riding motorcycles since '67, even before it was the law, I used a helmet and my headlights. Using the lights made me more visable, made me stand out. With the DRLs I would blend in and increase the chance of unintended sudden stop. Even now motorcycling is dangerous enough, people firing their boats at me from all angles. DRLs would probably cause me to cancel my membership in the brotherhood of motorcycling. Another freedom lost. Seize ya.

1SICKLEX

Another idea from A BUNCH OF IDIOTS

They are so stupid (GM). Dahm the DRL headlights, those idiots need to mandate the TAILAMPS!??! It is hell seeing a gray or black car from the rear when those idiots think they're lights are on but only the DRLs are on. Has anyone else noticed this? Driving around all night with the DRLs and no tailamps on WTF kinda half-a$$ed idea is this?

JRock

Moog-Type-S

You gotta believe that there is something in it for oil companies, and automobile bulb manufacturers! Just think more fuel consumption, and more trips to the autopart store to buy burned out headlights!! You wait and see, (if they don't do this in Canada already) Cops will pull you over for your daytime running lights not being on....then you will get some huge fine similar to modifying a safety device like a seatbelt!!! Those GM bastards!!!
DRL's

gto2050

The only benefit to GM is the area of cost reduction. Since they are mandated for Canada and since a great many automobiles are built in Canada they can simplify and reduce cost by making only one type of wiring harness and one auto equipped with DRL's. That is the only reason GM is pushing for this. There is NO SAFETY BENEFIT.

Now, that said, there is a great possibility that GM will get their way and have Congress mandate them as a safety issue. I joined lightsout sometime ago and the bill is being steamrollered through the House and Senate.

nt5k

i dont know what the big deal with the DRL debate is.. i support them for the simple fact that most idiots are too stupid to turn them on when its starting to get dark and good luck having them turned on when its raining.. i don't understand how motorcyles will be 'lost' in a see of lights? a light is a light, it doesnt matter if its coming from a car or a tricycle most people will avoid them, and if you can't tell a motorcycle from car you shouldnt be driving anyway.. maybe bikers would do better if they stopped weaving in an out of traffic like its the moto-gp 500..

Scorpius

How do the Canadian CL DRLs work? Aren't they just lower power to the high beams? Is that controlled by the computer? Is there a jumper setting or something like that?

mrdeeno

i think most drl's here work that way too. i've seen assholes (w/ drl's but not auto-lights) driving around at night. their taillights aren't on yet their dimmed highbeams are bright enough for them to think their headlights are on.

i wonder why they don't realize their dash lights aren't on?

gto2050

You obviously know nothing about motorcycles or the people who ride them. We don't all weave in and out of traffic. Sometimes people who think like you just don't get it. If you don't understand how one light can get lost in a sea of headlights, your head is to far up your ass to reason with.

gto2050

Most of GM cars at least are able to sense when it's dark and automatically turn them on. I think they are a terrible idea for the rest of the US. What good is it if everyone has them? Right now you notice them because only about 30% of the cars have them.

Shawn S

I’m glad I’m getting some support on my first post back on page one of this thread.
I guess I’m not the only one who is against DRL’s.

Shawn S

mrdeeno

i don't think most cavaliers and saturns have auto-lights w/ drls 'cuz those are the cars that i usually see w/ just daytimes on at night.

even saturns with their headlights on piss me off...they put the lowbeams towards the center, so they are closer together and you think it's ufrther away than it actually is. i almost pulled out many times in front of a saturn because of this...but unlike those people that NEED others to have drls, i'm "aware" before i pull out.

JRock

The big deal is they will be mandating something with lots of negatives and no proven positives. People who pull all those stupid maneuvers that piss you off or cause accidents aren't suddenly going to drive better because of DRLs.

mrdeeno

it's like what you said before on the other thread, it's not about what's beneficial or advantageous, it's about politics.

gm has been known to resist regulation, but in this case it's in their interest and that's why they're pushing for it.

sundance_gold

I already drive with my lights on all of the time anyhow. You can say what you want, pro or con, but I think the ounce of prevention is worth its weight in gold if having your lights on prevents an accident. While I have never hit anyone (knock on wood) it seems that every car I've owned has been run into at least once...so I will do what ever it takes to reduce the likelihood of that happening.

gto2050

You are causing more glare than anything else. At least DRL's are dimmed.

underdog

Yup, our already gloriously yellow high beams shine a sickly yellow-orange like a dying flashlight.

How is it controlled? I dunno ... (skinny pedal fast, fat pedal slow)

mrdeeno

i think there's a module somewhere that interrupts the circuit for the main headlight power...'cuz on u.s. models if you pull (or blow) the fuse for the headlights (hid), when you turn on your lights the highbeam bulb will go on but dimmer. it's just my guess but i think the HID lamps are wired 'on' all the time on canadian models the switch only controls that module (to (un)interrupt the HID circuit) and the aux/tail lights.

i know 'cuz i burned the fuse playing around with the road lamps (each one shares a fuse with the same-side HID) and that's what happened.

but i'm not an acura tech and don't have my helm with me so i don't know.