Rock Dog

Those who are not up to speed on this can start with the first post of this thread.

http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...threadid=80264

For those that are. Here is today's happenings...
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I called the service guy today at the dealer. I asked him for the name of the Acura person who came to see the car yesterday. He hemmed and hawed. I asked again... He said that HE was then one who looked at the car and then reported his findings to the regional guy. I stated that that is not what he said yesterday. Yesterday he told me that "Acura came out and looked at the car, came to the conclusion that CAI=abuse, and that they would only cover THIS trans. He said there must be some confusion, I told him there is no confusion, you stated exactly that, and that now you are telling me you lied. He ignored that comment, and stated again that HE looked at the car, and reported his findings to the regional guy. Since I know the regional guys name, I asked for confirmatin . He said yes. I hung up.

NOW FOR THE KICKER!
ARE YOU SITTING DOWN?

I called Acura customer service to complain about the way the dealer is handling this thus far. I explained the situation and stated that the service rep is lying about Acura's involvement and explained that according to him (the service guy,) that Acura would not warranty another trans due to CAI=abusive driver.

The following is a "cliff notes" transcript of the conversation. This is NOT verbatim, but close enough.

ACS-The warranty states that any after market mod to the car can and will void the warranty.

RD-But the dealer said it another way. He said that the mods = a driver with a propensity to abuse the car. I have a pager and window tint. Does that mean Acura considers me a drug dealer?

ACS- (she blows off the drug dealer comment) Never the less. If you modify the car, the warranty will be void. You understand that the CAI increases HP and torque.

RD-Yes, but not with any real increase. It's minimal at best.

ACS-By adding the CAI to your car, you've increased the HP and torque outside of what the vehicle was designed for, therefore increasing the stress on the trans. They are going to replace this trans, but due to the fact that you modified the car. We will not cover a second, if the need arises.

RD-Well I am aware, as I am sure you are that Honda/Acura is having transmission problems in the Odyssey, Accord and CL/TL. So it is unlikely that the CAI had any affect on the failure of the transmission.

ACS-Have you read your owners warranty?

RD-Yes

ACS-It states that if you modify the car, you void the warranty.

RD-Yes, but according to the Magnusson-Moss Act, you have to prove that the CAI caused the transmission failure, and since you and I both know that Honda/Acura is having transmission problems with many "unmodified" vehicles. It's a given that the transmission would have failed mod or not.

ACS-Again... by installing the CAI you increased the horsepower and torque to point of streess on the transmission.

RD-Are you telling me that Acura has designed this car to within +/- 1 horse and +/- 1ftlb of torque? How do you justify transmission failures for those customers living in a very cold climate? Colder, denser air will increase horsepower and torque. So you will warrant a trans in Texas, but not Quebec?

ACS-(No Response)

RD-Well what about the dealers who sell, install and WARRANT aftermarket mods?

ACS-The dealers are independent, each chooses how to run their dealership.

RD-Well wait… That’s a contradiction. My dealer who took it upon himself to inform me about not covering a second trans replacement, is stating so according to Acura policy. But any dealer who stocks, installs and warrants aftermarket parts is working of his/her own volition?

ACS-The warranty is the warranty and it clearly states that any modification installed on the car. We are aware that there are transmission problems. But modifying the car does not entitle the owner to coverage. Installing the CAI modified the specifications of the car.

RD-But there are plenty of cars out there. That have had transmission failures without mods.

ACS-If you choose to leave the CAI installed with the

RD-I have 2 friends who bought Acuras based on my recommendation, I have a client who is waiting for his ’03 TL-S Anthracite w/nav, right now. Should I tell him to cancel his order because there’s a real possibility that Acura may not warrant an electrical failure due to his garage door opener creating interference? Surely you care more about your customers? Current and potential…

ADS-We care about our customers, but we also car about the car. When you installed your CAI, you damaged your car. {I’m not kidding, that remark is VERBATIM}

RD-Wait, Wait, Wait… Did you just say I DAMAGED MY CAR? I see that this is not going anywhere. I concede that I have been warned about voiding my warranty. You have been informed that the M-M act states you must prove the failure was caused by the existence of the CAI. Which is not going to happen because the transmission problem is a pre-existent condition that has nothing to do with any mod, and everything to do with a poorly designed and implemented transmission.

I drove Chrysler products for 17 years. My last 2 had more than the average problems. With the last one, their flagship luxury sedan having a big enough problem that I had to Lemon Law the vehicle. I came to Acura because of the reputation, quality and reliability. It’s very disconcerting to see that Acura is no better than Chrysler at this time. This circumstance is the kind of action I would expect from a 5-Star dealer. But NOT Honda Motor Corp. Certainly you could have set the bar a little higher than CHRYSLER. But we all have our goals, and it seems that Honda/Acura has given up on theirs.

ACS-(no respone)

RD-Well, I would like to send a letter to the president of American Honda, do you have that information available?

ACS-Koichi Amemiya
1919 Torrence Blvd
Torrence CA. 90501

A couple more words, an exchange of goodbye(s), I hang up…

Zapata

:shakehd: Hmmmm sorry to hear bud. I would just sat there and waited for him to responded to the MM Act. Idiots........

DISRUPTV

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!! Now CAI fucks up the car?!! What abt dealership installed and sold comptech performance products i.e. headers, and pretty soon intake....don't 4get some dealerships sell brand new nsx's and s2000's w/comptech superchargers...its obvious acura/honda isn't really going 2 care anymore...looks like they are becoming more (no offense) "AMERICANISED" then we thought

BlueCLS6

That is just a lame conversation... they are just trying to find excuses so they don't have to warrant ANOTHER transmission. The CAI damaging the car is simply B.S.
p.s. it's TorrAnce, CA... I work right down the street from there

MiK3Y

you wont get anywhere talking to just the a customer service rep. my friend does that for mazda and he tells me all the stories about people that call in bitching and how they put them on mute and start telling his co-workers what an ass this guy is. they don't give a shit if you tell your friend to get an Acura or if you tell them not to get an Acura, they get nothing out of it. their pay doesnt increase or decrease. everything is done by the book with them. do you think my friend cares if somebody who called in decided to tell his friend not to get a mazda?? hell noooo...he could care less and thats exactly how it is with an Acura customer service rep.

Rock Dog

Well, I have a little background into the training of these fools Zap.

They are trained to be non-confrontational. You will never EVER get a rise out of them.

They will NEVER offer anymore information than is completely necessary. And they will not respond to a statement.

If you want to know something you must ask a direct question. Or else they just sit there, breathing into the phone, typing what you say on their system.

They will NEVER editorialize.

I asked her point blank if she was aware of the M-M act, and how it would apply to my situation, no response, I asked again, she reiterated the warranty crap. She would not answer or comment.

limuas22

That's screwed up...it sounds like the person you were talking to was reading out of a book and didn't care what you were saying, I bet she nows nothing about the car. You got shafted and , and since when does a CAI damage your car...that's jacked up!

Rock Dog

Lame conversation or not. THIS IS THEIR TAKE ON MODS! Of course they are trying to get out of covering it. Which is exactly what they will do if allowed. This isn't a joke dummy. There are a lot of people out there who could be in for a rude awakening. If they stand pat on this, anyone with a CAI, Headers, Chip, Exhaust or RES. Could be stuck footing the bill for a new tranny. That is unless you've got the balls, and strength, and wherewithall to fight them all the way to court on it. Ever go through the Lemon Law process? I HAVE! It's a nightmare, and it takes months to accomplish. They throw every lie, and roadblock up they can, to get you to back down. Many people do. I DIDN'T

As far as spelling TorrAnce wrong. Excuse me Einstein. I DON'T work right down the street from them. And I have no need to learn how to properly spell every pissant, little town in the contiguos 48 states. Another NooB!

Scrib

I'm sitting here and all I can do is shake my head...

I'm not only concered for you Rock Dog, but for every other member here. This whole transmission thing is going too far and Acura is putting their tail up their asses and trying to hide.

Keep it up Acura... You may start losing more customers then you care to...

Rock Dog

No Kidding? Wow thanks for the insight chief. They will care about a couple thousand members of this forum dumping their rides, buying someone elses product next time, or pushing for class action. Do a Little research on the Windstar headgasket for starters. That started out with a small percentage, and Ford telling their customers to take a hike, they weren't covered. Through a forum just like this one. It turned into a TSB, then a recall and a warranty extension.

Anyone else able to see the BIG PICTURE? Or am I stuck with these fools, who just don't get it?

Rescuer

same here. i can only shake my head too. this is utter bullshit happening to us all (Actually Rock Dog at the current moment).

they are totally contradicting themselves. my dealership sells CL WITH all the comptech bolt-ons for a price. so if increasing HP voids the warranty, then why is their company selling cars WITH bolt on's on them? i guess it's at the dealers descretion tho. but the MM act clearly says over and over again, that bolt ons do NOT void warranty.

i think you need to call up places like 7 on your side, or whatever TV stations you have in your area that deal with bullshit like this. get some other type of people involved in this "scam"

thanks for taking the time to type out all that BS above Rock Dog. i think all of us will back you up on this.

Rescuer

PS. i have been really really thinking about trading in my car for a WRX soon since i do love the WRX so much. it's things like this that make my decision more final. keep us updated

Rescuer

here is a helpful link i got off this site awhile back http://www.sema.org/content/?ID=22237&criteria=Warranty

mattg

utter bullshit. we need to rally the troops on this tranny problem.

Scrib

But what can be done???


The little deamon inside me keeps saying "Get rid of your car. Get rid of your car."

mattrush78

Maybe all the members if this forum should call Acura Customer Care everyday until they recall or extend the warranty of our transmissions!! While on the call give them shit about aftermarket parts voiding the warranty.

Someone with an e-mail server should put together some of the transmission threads and send it to Acura every hour of the every day.

We shouldn't stop calling and emailing until we get what we want!!!

Just a thought!

Matthew

Scrib

Harassment isn't the solution...

We need to be tackful and professional. I've always thought a GROUP ACL.com letter to Acura would be the way to go.

However, whatever actions that were to be taken, it's unlikely we'd get anything more than a .

We can bitch and moan all we want, but I doubt we're going to have any success getting Acura to listen.

Unfortunately...

mattrush78

If Acura is not acting professional and tactful about this problem why should we???? If we get in there face they will have to deal with us!!!

Matthew

Scrib

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm all for trying to figure out the best way to handle this. But emailing every 30 minutes and calling every hour isn't my idea of the right way to handle things.

Just because Acura isn't acting like adults, doesn't mean we have to stoop down to their level.

mattrush78

If two wrongs don't make a right then that means all the work I did at Sprint was for not.

Believe it or not I agree with you. I also understand that to get a big company to listen to you. You have to drive them crazy and make them loose lots of money before they will even to start to work with you!

I wish there was an easier way to handle this! If there is cool! If not my idea is still on the table for people to think about!

Matthew

Scrib

Point well taken...

I guess I like to look for more not-so-confrontational methods of getting something resolved. Don't get me wrong, I'll annoy the shit out of someone if need be. But I think there are other avenues that should be considered before everyone bogs down the phone lines and creates an internet bottleneck with all the emails. :P

I think it's good to post ideas and brainstorm...

JZ

I agree that the best way to handle this would be to put forth a concerted effort of all ACL.com and ATL.com (and maybe even AV6.com) members and after every person's name that has had a transmission replaced list the mileage and mods done to the car. As we all know, there is no relationship to the bolt on mods that all of us have and transmission failure.

This is the only way that they will give a crap. I'm sure that they will think twice if an intelligent and strongly written letter signed by all of the members of these forums is sent to them. I can only imagine that this would be upwards of 2000 people who agree on this issue.

Rock Dog--you draft that letter and put a sticky on it here and we'll all sign it. I'm sure you could just type it up and then allow us all to respond with our signatures and/or stories and then print out that long-ass post and send it to these jerk offs!

pofi

I think the only thing big companies respond to are the media. Which is why the L.A. Times article is a good thing (I actually printed it out and keep it in my car just in case my tranny blows. That way i'll have it when i see the closest dealer so if they give me any lip, i can shove the web site in their face )
Um... yeah...

chikai

damn... :head-shaking-side-to-side:

well, we have a pretty huge number of members on this site...no one knows of any publishers, news reporter, etc? Any one know contacts at Road and Track...Motortrend...Sport Compact Car???

I agree...the only way Honda/Acura is going to listen is if this problem is publicized like crazy. I don't think just having a forum is going to help.

Rock Dog...can't you try another dealership? Aren't there any others in your area?

fender4

LA Times reference to this web page and and now Acura has a direct attack against the number one mod most members have. To much of a coincidence,,, this is our penalty for keeping track of trans failures,, just a thought,, Acura read the article and off course reviewed our web page and now a little payback from the big Corp with ruffled feathers ..

Red Rider

I guess you won't be doing the SC upgrade at that dealership I agree with Typesdragoon, at my dealer Niello in Sacramento, all their managers are driving modified TL-Ss and CL-Ss with every Comptech part available. When they're done with them, they go on the used lot for sale. In their new showroom, they have brand new cars for sale, loaded with Comptech parts at large markups. I highly doubt they are telling people who just plunked down 37 large, that the warranty has already been voided, and by the dealer no less !!!

Loseit

iTrader: (1)

Reading this...i posted something similar (but not so serious as our cars) about a show that people are trying to stop from getting cancelled. They got 600,000 hits on a website in one night! ONE NIGHT. they got CNN to listen and CNN got such a response from viewers that they keep the subject going. AND THIS IS FOR A STINKIN TV SHOW!!!! People have started an online petition that has crazy numbers of people signing it. This is a matter of saftey of our cars. this concern can easily get the media's attention. Someone mentioned that the NTHSA has only 2 or 3 complaints. People are not putting in the effort . If everyone is serious we have to get something orginized and attack this problem methodically in a calm , collected and educated manner.

Loseit

iTrader: (1)

oh and RD sorry man . I remember talking to those Acura Service Reps on the phone about a problem i had .... the guy started getting irate....but unfortunately i lost my cool, too. Have to learn how to control my temper. But those guys are impossible. He repeated the same thing about 20 times. No matter what question i asked him.

beestea

Wow this really sucks.

Rock Dog, thanks for posting this info... I think the time is finally here whenwe all need to step together and use the power of numbers to get some sort of resolution to this transmission problem.

I like the idea of putting together a letter with a list of everyones names that has had transmission problems, how many times they have had them fail, and at what mileage. We could also include a list of people that own the cars and haven't yet had a problem but are considering selling their car or never buying from Honda/Acura again unless Honda comes up with a good solution. We could send copies of the letters to NHTSA, BBB, Honda Executives, and the media.

I think at the very least we can get a LA Times follow up story in the likes of "After our last story we recieved calls and emails from hundreds even thousands of Acura / Honda owners with the same problem.... They have started an initiative to attract more attention to this issue in the hopes of getting a productive response from Honda"

If Honda were to offer owners of the vehicles with the questionable transmission extended powertrain warranties that would be a good outcome in my mind.

Also this nonsense about a bolt on that add's maybe 4HP max in the perfect conditions bringing the HP out of spec with what the transmission is built for is rediculous.... especially considering dealer comptech packages.

At any rate... im in on any kind of group efforts we come up with. I haven't had a tranny go and don't have any mods yet... but still this whole situation makes me very uncomfortable with my car.

Silver™

"pissant, little town..."

Hey I take offense to that statement about Torrance.

rise

maybe even get the makers of CAIs to give research findings and what not....

maevonee

imm all in to any way we take action to this crap thats been going on...lets do something about this i dont want to hae to go to the dealer one day and them refuse my car for my simple mods....

superdx

What a crock of BS. To every one of those accusations you should have just asked them to prove it. Ask the dealer to prove it. Ask the customer service rep to prove it. Otherwise it is all speculation and you should them that to even do that with your time is a direct insult.

How can you prove that someone is a bad driver?
How can you prove that the CAI increases horsepower and torque?
How can you prove that by inreasing the horsepower and torque, you increase the stress on the transmission, therefore making it fail?

Obviously all three of the above are hard to prove and would require time and money to do so. You'd have to go to a court to get these things proven, at the expense of the dealer and Honda. This is not to mention the horrible publicity for them.

When I went to get my fog lights replaced, which were cracked by road debris (i.e. pebbles), the dealer actually refused the warranty work, saying that this kind of damage didn't fall under the warranty. I was amazed. I asked them if I should expect to come back every couple months and plunk down $400 (!!!) for a set of stupid lights that cracked because I took the highway to work? The service adviser even had the guts to say that due to aggressive driving above legal speed limits is the primary cause of cracks. I asked her to prove that I was an aggressive driver and that I disregard all speed limits. That shut her up good.

Because I was starting to make a scene (and was making perfectly good sense too!), the service manager finally came out of hiding, took 20 seconds to locate the service bulletin for the fog light lens and took care of the warranty work.

I wonder if dealers and their employees are trained to give you the walk around the block, hoping that you'll go away rather do any sort of work at all.

KavexTrax

Some people have settled their case with Acura, others have gone to court. That's how it should be, anything less would be uncivilized...

gjr2001

Rock Dog,
I'm there for you man, that really pisses me off. Get me a phone number to the CEO. I fawking help you out!!!!

jit

Acura's irresponsible reaction / response actually got me thinking to sell the car before my trans fails again (hopefully not). My dealer fixed the trans last time it failed, no question asked. But if Acura HQ is saying these groundless comments, who knows how the dealership might react if the trans fails again.

We have over 8000 registered members here. Even 1/10 of that is a pretty significant number of Acura owners. I think we should utilize this to our advantage. Let's start a poll on how many people want to be part of this campaign.

BigPimp

This is preposterous, unbelievable and inconsistent on the part of acura. Some dealers say one thing, other install the parts themselves, yet others wont even put in aftermarket driving lights in because its not covered under warranty.

How I wish I knew this b4 I bought this car. The part that I dont understand is how come Honda has done NOTHING to get this tranny issue resolved. I mean Accord V6 tranny has been breaking down for years. So these foggies take the same tranny and add hp to the engine, and expect that IT DOES NOT BREAK :sqnteek:. That is preposterous. I have a CAI, i have not heard stupid shit like RD is saying, but Marc S has heard some BS regarding tranny replacement and having spring WTF is wrong with these dealers.

We deffinetly need to do something.

RockDog: Have you tried going to another dealer?

Rock Dog

I am assuming your referring to Acura and the dealers "stupid shit" and not me directly, correct?

Haven't gone to another dealer. The trans failed, became really dangerous due to downshifting with no warning at freeway speeds. Took it to the dealer I bought it at, and have all service performed without issue prior to this nonsense.

Besides I would imagine the other 2 dealers in the metro area would have the same response given the fact the none of them support or install mods. And kind of view them in the same way my dealer does.

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Wait a sec? Aren't Acura and Honda providing Factory Performance Kits for the the RSX and the Civic...

Well if the Acura and honda are selling parts that increase HP/Toqure... does this mean there is no more warrenty for these cars because the aftermarket parts will damage the car?... It is a contradiction... Pure BS...

Just tell that bitsh... this.... Honda and Acura are Performance Oriented Cars.... Or should I trade in for a Mazda MP3 Speed edition?....

Davediego

dont think that the kits have any actual engine mods, just brakes, rims, and a body kit (at least for the RSX, dunno about the Civic)
regardless I can't believe you have to put up with this BS Rock Dog. I actually get compliments from my service manager about the mods Ive done when I bring in my car. Next thing you know there will be a TSB out for the CAI to place blame on the tranny