scalbert

Are you using every connector on the straight through harness?? I suspect there is something going on here outside of the e-Manage.

scalbert

With the problems you are having and the small problem I saw I decided to take a couple of steps back and remove some functionality and then add it back in.

Sunday evening I pulled the harness and re-wired it to bypass the VTEC control and I made jumpers for the Ignition harness connector. I did this to isolate various duties and to get miles on the car at various states. I drove all day yesterday with only the basic e-Manage functions (excluding VTEC control) and the Additional Injector control. The car ran just as though the e-Manage was not there. It pulled hard and reacted normally. This confirmed that the e-Manage was not affecting fueling matters at all.

This morning I pulled the jumpers from the ignition harness and added it back in. The car ran just perfectly; again, like the e-Manage was not in place. It pulled hard in every gear all the way to redline. I even got on it in second, held it and took it to 6k revs in 4th getting on the highway. So the ignition control is not affecting anything.

At this point I am satisfied; even if the VTEC control is not in place. Tomorrow morning I will re-enable the VTEC control and see what happens.

scalbert

We'll get this figured out. It is just a matter of paitence and testing and more testing to be sure of all areas.

ModAddict

[QUOTE]Originally posted by scalbert
Are you using every connector on the straight through harness?? I suspect there is something going on here outside of the e-Manage. [/QUOTE

Yes, and continuity was good.

ModAddict

Last night I bypassed the ignition harness, but won't have time to try it until tomorrow.

scalbert

However, that is not complete assurance that it is correct. A single thread of copper could be connected and give a good continuity reading but when loads are applied it fails.

A voltage drop test with a load applied is a better indicator as to the health of the circuit.

ModAddict

True

scalbert

I wired in the quick disconnects for the VTEC but it is too wet to really try it out right now. I will try though later today into tomorrow morning. But so far since running the ignition control that car is perfect. Now if I do run into a problem it will be isolated with the VTEC control.

scalbert

I also went out this morning and used a voltage calibration on the MAP input to the ECU to determine the actual scale of the MAP sensor. We will need this for tuning the tables since we need to correlate MAP input voltage with Boost. I had guessed at it before and was a little off.

Also remember, the MAP reads absolute pressure whereas boost is a gage measurement (referenced to atmosphere) so 0 PSI boost is actual an absolute value of whatever the current barometric pressure is. For this though I will use a base of 30.00 inHg as the common barometric pressure to convert to boost.

Below are the test numbers; this was using a Fluke 701 meter as the source which is NIST traceable to 10 microvolts. The pressure numbers were read from the ECU with the OBD-2 software:

0.5VDC = 3.6inHg
1.0VDC = 9.2inHg
1.5VDC = 14.8inHg
2.0VDC = 20.1inHg
2.5VDC = 25.5inHg
3.0VDC = 31.1inHg
3.5VDC = 36.4inHg
4.0VDC = 41.8inHg
4.5VDC = 47.4inHg

Or when measuring positive manifold pressure in PSI Boost:

3.0VDC = 0.5 PSI Boost
3.5VDC = 3.1 PSI Boost
4.0VDC = 5.8 PSI Boost
4.5VDC = 8.5 PSI Boost

Going back to the Linear Equation most should have learned in 7th grade

M (Slope) = 5.267
B (Offset) = -15.301

So when related to the tables in the e-Manage since they are in 0.200VDC steps, these are the approximate boost values:

2.8VDC = -0.6 PSI Boost
3.0VDC = 0.5 PSI Boost
3.2VDC = 1.6 PSI Boost
3.4VDC = 2.6 PSI Boost
3.6VDC = 3.7 PSI Boost
3.8VDC = 4.7 PSI Boost
4.0VDC = 5.8 PSI Boost
4.2VDC = 6.8 PSI Boost
4.4VDC = 7.9 PSI Boost
4.6VDC = 8.9 PSI Boost

Below about 2.8VDC is irrelevant as it would be under vacuum and nearly under the Boost Cut reading.

ModAddict

Nice job on the numbers, but you better run them up to 10 psi.

ModAddict

and,

Good news on the ignition thru the eman,....I was worried there was more to this with the problems I'm having. I will be able to test mine today w/o the ignition thru the eman.

scalbert

4.8VDC = 10.0 PSI Boost
5.0VDC = 11.0 PSI Boost

ModAddict

ModAddict

I bypassed the ignition harness, and reset the eman boost cut to 5v with the ems back in place, and still encountered the 5500rpm rev limit.

Going back a step though,
when I had everything wired thru the eman, but with the vtec wired connecting the VTSOL and the VTPSW together and sending that from the ecu to the eman, the rev limit was absent, and every thing ran great, but no actual vtec engagement. That being said, I think that can rule out the harness, with the exception of the vtec. However the way the vtec is wired now, it's activating on/off with no problem, that should rule out the harness for the vtec wiring.

I will wait for your results on the vtec, hopefully it will stop raining for you soon. I've got to work a trade show starting tomorow thru Sunday, and the weather is supposed to be great.

scalbert

Well, the sun is out now and I ran to get my hair cut and some lunch. It ran just fine without a hiccup. I have it engaging the VTEC solenoid at 4500 revs and all seems fine, I'll keep an eye on it and will report back in the morning.

BTW, I assume you are in sales?? If so, what market???

ModAddict

I'm a manufactures rep for two dental equipment companies. One has a line of patient chairs, air/water/suction delivery units operating lights, and dental specific cabinetry, and the other one is the leading manufacturer of Nitrous Oxide, and Oxygen equipment in the dental market.

ModAddict

You are running it up to, or close to, the redline?

scalbert

Yes, even hit just over 7 grand one time.

scalbert

Good to see other reps out there. We are a rep for about thirty manufacturers but in a completely different market.

ModAddict

I'm going to give this harness one more crack today. If it does not work, and yours is working, I'd like to send you my main unit, and have you try it on your harness. I would like to rule out a defective E-Manage unit.

scalbert

No problem...

ModAddict

Where can I send it to? I'll let you know by the end of the day If it's comming.

Thanks!

scalbert

You don't have my office address any longer??

ModAddict

I kept it for a while, but don't have it any more, sorry. PM if you want.

ModAddict

It should be there Friday. After I shipped it, I was thinking about you hooking it up and remembered I had set the eman boost cut back to 5.00 V, and went back on the EMS. If you're off the EMS, as I suspect you are, you will need to change the boost cut in the eman.

Thanks again for your help!

BTW, i finally checked the voltage on the ESM and it was at 2.81 vdc. The log function thru the eman showed the clamp at 2.70 vdc.

scalbert

I'll hook up the laptop before hand to check everything out just to be sure.

ModAddict

scalbert

I finally got some open road time with the VTEC control going through the e-Manage and the results are not good.

On the way home yesterday I thought I felt something weird. When I got on it in 2nd, held it to redline and shifted to 3rd the car felt like it fell flat. It felt similar to timing being pulled significantly. But I couldn't be 100% sure since it was hard to hold it at that time of the day.

This morning I left for the office and was getting on the highway and was in 3rd. I got on it to get around a car that was hardly moving (doing 40MPH to merge on an interstate with the speed limit of 65MPH ), the revs came up and then hit a wall. The car felt like it hit a rev limiter. I don't know the revs but it was probably around 5500 RPM. I tried to re-create it but was unsuccessful.

When I got off the interstate I got on it in 2nd, shifted to 3rd and it was definitely flat just after the shift. I slowed and re-tried with the same result. I could tell it was falling flat because there was little forward momentum when I let off the gas. I immediately pulled over, switched it back to bypassing the VTEC control; running off the factory control. The car was now back to normal. I made about five 2nd gear WOT pulls with hard shift into 3rd and held it to 6000 RPM and every time it pulled hard.

It does appear that there is something the e-Manage is doing with the VTEC controls that the ECU does not like. I’m not sure if the signals are falling out; the e-Manage can’t hold the solenoid open, the confirming signal is not being supplied correctly or if there is some VTEC output/input timing correlation aspect in the ECU which isn’t being satisfied. But I will be looking into it and try to determine the source of the problem.

For the time being though, I am not too concerned because the VTEC control is not paramount. The fuel and ignition controls are why I am using it. The VTEC change was just a perk but inconsequential in the whole scope of the project. For the time being I will run without that function to get more miles on the system with the fuel and ignition control enabled.

I plan on starting some tuning next week just to get some experience. If I get a chance I might try to test the ignition control with the scope and see if timing can be advanced after all.

ModAddict

I guess there's no reason to test mine when it gets there. Refuse the delivery tomorow and it will come right back to me.

It pulls fuel, and probably timing too, when the 5500 rev limit hits,.... the wideband goes lean. I've been easing into it when I test, and load doesn't seem to matter.

There are S-2000s that have done something different with the vtec wiring and been sucsesful. I'll try to get more details.

ModAddict

The S-2000 guys are NOT running vtec thru the eman. They decided Honda put the vtec change over right where it should be. (because they couldn't get it to work )

If anyone can figure it out Steve, you can. But as you say, it's not really what we were after, so if not, it's cool.

scalbert

I'll still test it out and turn it around for you. No big deal and it is better to be sure.

scalbert

Juts FYI, the car is running strong so that is the problem with the unit. I will eventually put a scope on the VTEC input and output signal just to see what they are doing but it is not urgent.

I am pondering over the need though. At 4800 RPM it is at a point that is ideal for two reasons. It is within reason when shifting and staying in it. But it is high enough that you don't venture into it during normal driving.

scalbert

It would probably be a relay or two along with maybe a pull up or pull down resistor. Maybe more than what we need though to change the VTEC 300 - 500 RPM.

BTW, I hope the trade show is going well... Are you working a booth or strolling around??

typeR

hey is this stupid...but what in the ECU detects load? it can pull timing based on load yes? when you rev it in neutral or park you hit the rev limiter at 5500 maybe the problem is a load sensor.

scalbert

Load is a calculated value primarily based on the TPS, MAP and IAT sensors. It is an internal value to the ECU and not relevant externally; more or less a generic term for stating how much fuel the ECU might throw in.

The 5500 limit (in park it is 5000 RPM) is now isolated to when the e-Manage controls VTEC. I'll figure out how to take care of it; but that is later. I don't really need it at this time.

ModAddict

Working the booth by day, signing dinner bills and bar tabs by night.

scalbert

I do understand that; although I leave the nightly bills to Sales. Engineering never coughs up the $$$.

scalbert

BTW, although your e-Manage came in on Friday I didn't get it until yesterday. I installed and loaded my program this morning and it ran perfectly.

It is going out today; I'll PM you the tracking number later.

scalbert

Oh BTW, I have the e-Manage and the harness connection in the glove box right now. They fit like a glove in there together.

I'll snap some pictures this evening but it is now clean in there and running string. Now I will begin tuning the system. I'm going to drop the fuel pressure and then add pulse width along with pulling some timing.

The hope is to lean it out some and pull timing so I can pick up some power, especially down low.

scalbert

One more thing, I saw an interesting idea on the e-Manage forum. If we do not use the VTEC control we can set the output to turn on at about 6900 RPM. Then tie the VTEC Solenoid output to a 12VDC light and we now have a shift light.

Now to find a good place to mount the light.