E-Manage Thread
#202
found this on super streethttp://www.superstreetonline.com/techarticles/87158/
#204
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BTW, I got the new harness done and will take some pictures tonight. I put the socket in an experiment box and taped up the entire lengths of cable. Looks pretty good IMO. All terminals are crimped and soldered and all taps soldered. I Ohm'd out all terminals so it should be good to go.
More on this later...
More on this later...
#205
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If you end up making a few more, I can send you my harness to re-use the connectors.
When I did the glove box mod, I ended up trimming the bottom, left, of the plastic air filter access cover (?), that sits behind the glove box. It started to pull the end cover off the eman when you opened the glove box, so chop-chop. You could probably mount it sideways and avoid that if you want to. Here is how mine ended up.
http://www.photohost.org/gallery/sho...t=7&thecat=500
When I did the glove box mod, I ended up trimming the bottom, left, of the plastic air filter access cover (?), that sits behind the glove box. It started to pull the end cover off the eman when you opened the glove box, so chop-chop. You could probably mount it sideways and avoid that if you want to. Here is how mine ended up.
http://www.photohost.org/gallery/sho...t=7&thecat=500
#206
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#207
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I was about to install it but Makenna decided differently.
So all I got done this evening was fitting the new manifold. But I did snap a few picture of the harness. I'll try to get around to installing it tomorrow. Pictures below:
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
So all I got done this evening was fitting the new manifold. But I did snap a few picture of the harness. I'll try to get around to installing it tomorrow. Pictures below:
#209
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i have to say, this is all getting pretty exciting. how long would you say until you are testing an e-managed and intercooled cl-s?
#210
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One month hopefully; but at least before the end of the year. That is with cooperation from my girls. I have been going into the office around 5:30 to 6:00 AM to find the time to mess with this stuff.
Before their birth I would gladly work from the time I went home to the time I went to bed. But now when I get home I have two wonderful bundles of joy to take care of. Needless to say, I go to bed early.
Before their birth I would gladly work from the time I went home to the time I went to bed. But now when I get home I have two wonderful bundles of joy to take care of. Needless to say, I go to bed early.
#211
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I got a chance to test the new harness and get some real street time with the e-Manage today. Upon firing up the car with the e-Manage in place I got a DTC. A quick read with the OBD-2 software indicated a VTEC System malfunction. I had re-done the wiring to support the information in the shop manual. But obviously the shop manual was incorrect, which is not the first time I have found this.
I had to tear apart a portion of my harness and a quick snip, splice and re-tape and the car was fired up again. This time with the wiring for the VTEC control exactly as it was shown in the e-Manage manual. I cleared the code and it didn't come back. So now it was time for a drive.
Now remember, this is with all zeros and it should be running as though the e-Manage was not in place. That is except for the Boost Cut limiter and VTEC control. I removed the Comptech ESM and ran solely off the e-Manage boost cut control which is important to information provided later.
I headed out on the road and got on it a few times. The car ran just fine and I could feel the VTEC coming in at 4500 revs where I set it at. However, the overall power was down some from where I had been or expected it to be. I pulled over and adjusted the boost cut point to 2.9VDC and went back out. This time the car cut out harshly and was violent about it. When I nailed the throttle the car bucked seriously. I pulled over again and reset it to 2.8VDC and it behaved as it had on the initial drive.
So I went back, unplugged the e-Manage; switched the plugs (and the quick disconnect leads for the ESM to be used or bypassed) and went for another drive. The power had now returned and was where it should be.
Unfortunately I didn't have enough time to test any further and will try to resume this tomorrow or Monday. Initially I though that the interception of the ignition or injector signals was causing the lower output; which could still be the case. However, seeing that the 100mV increase in the boost cut setting brought on such a violent reaction; I have to assume the 2.8VDC is also near the limit. The e-Manage does not use the same ground reference sources as the ESM had so the overall electrical potential may be different calling for different settings.
I plan on testing this theory by running the car with the ESM intact and without the e-Manage and watch the MAP signal though the OBD-2 software. I'll then compare this with the values with the e-Manage hooked up and adjust accordingly. I suspect a setting of 2.6VDC may be needed.
Otherwise I'll need to sort through each area, additional injection and ignition timing to determine the source of the problem.
More to come...
I had to tear apart a portion of my harness and a quick snip, splice and re-tape and the car was fired up again. This time with the wiring for the VTEC control exactly as it was shown in the e-Manage manual. I cleared the code and it didn't come back. So now it was time for a drive.
Now remember, this is with all zeros and it should be running as though the e-Manage was not in place. That is except for the Boost Cut limiter and VTEC control. I removed the Comptech ESM and ran solely off the e-Manage boost cut control which is important to information provided later.
I headed out on the road and got on it a few times. The car ran just fine and I could feel the VTEC coming in at 4500 revs where I set it at. However, the overall power was down some from where I had been or expected it to be. I pulled over and adjusted the boost cut point to 2.9VDC and went back out. This time the car cut out harshly and was violent about it. When I nailed the throttle the car bucked seriously. I pulled over again and reset it to 2.8VDC and it behaved as it had on the initial drive.
So I went back, unplugged the e-Manage; switched the plugs (and the quick disconnect leads for the ESM to be used or bypassed) and went for another drive. The power had now returned and was where it should be.
Unfortunately I didn't have enough time to test any further and will try to resume this tomorrow or Monday. Initially I though that the interception of the ignition or injector signals was causing the lower output; which could still be the case. However, seeing that the 100mV increase in the boost cut setting brought on such a violent reaction; I have to assume the 2.8VDC is also near the limit. The e-Manage does not use the same ground reference sources as the ESM had so the overall electrical potential may be different calling for different settings.
I plan on testing this theory by running the car with the ESM intact and without the e-Manage and watch the MAP signal though the OBD-2 software. I'll then compare this with the values with the e-Manage hooked up and adjust accordingly. I suspect a setting of 2.6VDC may be needed.
Otherwise I'll need to sort through each area, additional injection and ignition timing to determine the source of the problem.
More to come...
#212
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Ok,...
First of all I wired the vtec as you said, and it's running fine, with no DTC or eman codes, and vtec is working great, allthough I have not tried to change the engagement point yet.
Second, I never checked where the ems was set, on the ems, but when I logged thru the eman, the clamp was at 2.70 V.
Would it help if I checked the ems clamp setting?
First of all I wired the vtec as you said, and it's running fine, with no DTC or eman codes, and vtec is working great, allthough I have not tried to change the engagement point yet.
Second, I never checked where the ems was set, on the ems, but when I logged thru the eman, the clamp was at 2.70 V.
Would it help if I checked the ems clamp setting?
#213
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The problem with checking the ESM level is that it is wired off the sensor power which provides both power and a ground. This ground appears to be at a different potential than the chassis ground. So comparisons are hard to make unless you measure this differential.
By checking the ECU read MAP values with a scan tool we can determine what the appropriate value should be. And I hope this is the reason for the lower output.
Otherwise I will need A/F ratio numbers but I can probably use the O2 voltage as a quick, albeit not absolute, reference.
As for VTEC, we will probably need to try another harness just to be sure. It will be interesting to see if the manual is correct for some cars and not for others...
By checking the ECU read MAP values with a scan tool we can determine what the appropriate value should be. And I hope this is the reason for the lower output.
Otherwise I will need A/F ratio numbers but I can probably use the O2 voltage as a quick, albeit not absolute, reference.
As for VTEC, we will probably need to try another harness just to be sure. It will be interesting to see if the manual is correct for some cars and not for others...
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
#215
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The problems I was having might have been from the VTPSW connection that ended up falling off in my hands.
Now that the vtec is wired different, and seams to be running right, I should try to change the vtech point, and see if maybe it's not actually wired right.
You reconnected the ems, and left the vtech change in place, and it worked?
Now that the vtec is wired different, and seams to be running right, I should try to change the vtech point, and see if maybe it's not actually wired right.
You reconnected the ems, and left the vtech change in place, and it worked?
#216
Safety Car
Steve. I assume your boost vs. timing map is all zero'd out? In addition to the boost vs. injector duty cycle...
I'd debug this the following way:
(1) Check injector duty cycle on a 2nd gear pass (stock ECU)
(2) Check injector duty cycle on a 2nd gear pass (E-manage)
If (1) and (2) are the same.... its not fuel! Hence it can only be timing. Everything else is a mechanical... and that won't change.
If (1) and (2) are not the same... check the rotary dials for fuel enrichment/leaning etc. Also... I would check the basic Air Flow map vs. RPM as well.
The only thing affecting timing would be the boost vs. timing retard map (which I assume is '0' for now) or the MAP output to the ECU.
(3) What is the ESM clamp voltage (measured with a DMM to chassis ground)?
(4) What is the E-manage clamp voltage (measured with a DMM to chassis ground)?
If (3) and (4) are the same... then I am stumped![Confused](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif)
My initial thoughts are the MAP voltage settings as well - I suppose the first step is to have the car run equally (using the Comptech FPR) between the E-manage and the stock ECU.
Keep up the good work!
I'd debug this the following way:
(1) Check injector duty cycle on a 2nd gear pass (stock ECU)
(2) Check injector duty cycle on a 2nd gear pass (E-manage)
If (1) and (2) are the same.... its not fuel! Hence it can only be timing. Everything else is a mechanical... and that won't change.
If (1) and (2) are not the same... check the rotary dials for fuel enrichment/leaning etc. Also... I would check the basic Air Flow map vs. RPM as well.
The only thing affecting timing would be the boost vs. timing retard map (which I assume is '0' for now) or the MAP output to the ECU.
(3) What is the ESM clamp voltage (measured with a DMM to chassis ground)?
(4) What is the E-manage clamp voltage (measured with a DMM to chassis ground)?
If (3) and (4) are the same... then I am stumped
![Confused](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif)
My initial thoughts are the MAP voltage settings as well - I suppose the first step is to have the car run equally (using the Comptech FPR) between the E-manage and the stock ECU.
Keep up the good work!
![Thumbs Up](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#217
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Originally posted by ModAddict
When you changed the vtec point, did you also change the percent of vtec change?
When you changed the vtec point, did you also change the percent of vtec change?
#218
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Originally posted by ModAddict
You reconnected the ems, and left the vtech change in place, and it worked?
You reconnected the ems, and left the vtech change in place, and it worked?
#219
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Originally posted by allmotor_2000
I'd debug this the following way:
I'd debug this the following way:
The car also ran better pulling just as strong as without the e-Manage except for one time in 3rd gear up high. But that could have been my imagination.
To check fueling I watched the O2 (although this is not ideal it does show relative differences) with and without the e-Manage hooked up. Without the e-Manage I was reading 935mV. With the e-Manage it dropped to about 920mV which is not insignificant and probably due to the slightly lower MAP reading. But that is still well on the rich side.
I'll need to run this a bit more and get comfortable with it. I also agree that at this point if there is a drop in power it would be ignition related which I will bypass to test further. But I think it was due to the Boost Cut being too high. We'll know more as I get some miles on it.
#220
hey steve so is what your saying i have my esm voltage at 2.91 and i can go lower?because when i set it at 2.8 the car pulled harder but i thought as i drop voltage the car leans out.i never had any issues with the esm voltage being lower but shad at comptech said if its too low the car would run very lean.i wonder if the 2.91 is too high for us.
#221
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Originally posted by ModAddict
[B]The problems I was having might have been from the VTPSW connection that ended up falling off in my hands.
Now that the vtec is wired different, and seems to be running right,....B]
[B]The problems I was having might have been from the VTPSW connection that ended up falling off in my hands.
Now that the vtec is wired different, and seems to be running right,....B]
Originally posted by scalbert
As for VTEC, we will probably need to try another harness just to be sure. It will be interesting to see if the manual is correct for some cars and not for others...
As for VTEC, we will probably need to try another harness just to be sure. It will be interesting to see if the manual is correct for some cars and not for others...
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
![Doh](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/doh.gif)
#222
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Originally posted by types1967
hey steve so is what your saying i have my esm voltage at 2.91 and i can go lower?
hey steve so is what your saying i have my esm voltage at 2.91 and i can go lower?
#223
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Originally posted by ModAddict
My wiring is not correct now, and I'm sure the problems I was having before was because of the VTPSW wire on the harness was broken. I will repair the wiring and try again, wiring as the eman manual shows.
My wiring is not correct now, and I'm sure the problems I was having before was because of the VTPSW wire on the harness was broken. I will repair the wiring and try again, wiring as the eman manual shows.
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
#224
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Steve, just to clarify,... Did you have the vtec wiring just as it is shown in the eman manual, with the EMS connected, and it ran without bucking, and with engagement of the vtec, into the upper rpms.
because,
I tried it as such, and had done so before, and I'm back to bucking where vtec hits, just as before. The pin that broke on my harness is not used. It is the VTPSW end that gets cut and is not used. I will ring out the other vtec wiring on the harness to check for continuity.
because,
I tried it as such, and had done so before, and I'm back to bucking where vtec hits, just as before. The pin that broke on my harness is not used. It is the VTPSW end that gets cut and is not used. I will ring out the other vtec wiring on the harness to check for continuity.
#225
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Originally posted by ModAddict
I will ring out the other vtec wiring on the harness to check for continuity.
I will ring out the other vtec wiring on the harness to check for continuity.
![Confused](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif)
#226
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Originally posted by ModAddict
Steve, just to clarify,... Did you have the vtec wiring just as it is shown in the eman manual, with the EMS connected, and it ran without bucking, and with engagement of the vtec, into the upper rpms.
Steve, just to clarify,... Did you have the vtec wiring just as it is shown in the eman manual, with the EMS connected, and it ran without bucking, and with engagement of the vtec, into the upper rpms.
#227
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Originally posted by ModAddict
good continuity on vtec wiring thru the harness
good continuity on vtec wiring thru the harness
![Confused](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif)
#228
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rotary settings 7-8-D
JP1 1-2
JP2 1-2
JP3 2-3
JP4 1-2 (on)
JP5 off
JP6 off
JP7 off
and,
In the support tool in the "Main Unit Setting Information", does it show; (mine did not)
---------------Airflow Meter 1-----In use------Airflow Meter1
---------------Airflow Meter 1-----In use------VTEC out
--Airflow Meter Pulse Input-----In Use------VTEC in
Airflow Meter Pulse Output-----In Use------VTM out
JP1 1-2
JP2 1-2
JP3 2-3
JP4 1-2 (on)
JP5 off
JP6 off
JP7 off
and,
In the support tool in the "Main Unit Setting Information", does it show; (mine did not)
---------------Airflow Meter 1-----In use------Airflow Meter1
---------------Airflow Meter 1-----In use------VTEC out
--Airflow Meter Pulse Input-----In Use------VTEC in
Airflow Meter Pulse Output-----In Use------VTM out
#229
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Originally posted by ModAddict
rotary settings 7-8-D
JP1 1-2
JP2 1-2
JP3 2-3
JP4 1-2 (on)
JP5 off
JP6 off
JP7 off
and,
In the support tool in the "Main Unit Setting Information", does it show; (mine did not)
Airflow Meter 1 In use Airflow Meter 1
Airflow Meter 1 In use VTEC out
Airflow Meter Pulse Input In Use VTEC in
Airflow Meter Pulse Output In Use VTM out
rotary settings 7-8-D
JP1 1-2
JP2 1-2
JP3 2-3
JP4 1-2 (on)
JP5 off
JP6 off
JP7 off
and,
In the support tool in the "Main Unit Setting Information", does it show; (mine did not)
Airflow Meter 1 In use Airflow Meter 1
Airflow Meter 1 In use VTEC out
Airflow Meter Pulse Input In Use VTEC in
Airflow Meter Pulse Output In Use VTM out
#230
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Originally posted by scalbert
It only shows Airflow Meter 1 In Use. I'll confirm this later though.
It only shows Airflow Meter 1 In Use. I'll confirm this later though.
I keep thinking I need to enable the VTEC somehow in the software, since I have not changed it. Did it work for you before you changed the vtec settings, or did you change it right away?
#233
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Well I've been fooled again,...or I'm a fool again??? ![Doh](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/doh.gif)
I changed the vtec on(4800)/off(4600) and logged a short run, and yes vtec comes on and off just as it's supposed to. The problem is not related to vtec. It was cutting out just after the factory vtec was set, so I was fooled into thinking it was the vtec.
So the vtec is fine, but it is still bucking right before 5500rpm, just like a rev limiter.
![Doh](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/doh.gif)
I changed the vtec on(4800)/off(4600) and logged a short run, and yes vtec comes on and off just as it's supposed to. The problem is not related to vtec. It was cutting out just after the factory vtec was set, so I was fooled into thinking it was the vtec.
So the vtec is fine, but it is still bucking right before 5500rpm, just like a rev limiter.
#234
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OK, so following your lead Steve, I'm going to try setting the eman boost limit to 2.7v, (across the board?), and bypass the EMS, to see where I'm at with this.
#235
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I lowered the vtec to 4500/4400, by-passed the EMS, set boost cut to 2.70, and hit the rev limit at the same spot, (5500+/-). Lowered the boost cut to 2.65, and still hit the rev limit at the same place. I threw plent of boost at it in the lower rpms with no problem.
Somebody needs to tell this e-man the rev limit is 7500, not 5500!
I'll go back thru the ingnition wires.
Somebody needs to tell this e-man the rev limit is 7500, not 5500!
I'll go back thru the ingnition wires.
#236
Safety Car
Originally posted by ModAddict
I lowered the vtec to 4500/4400, by-passed the EMS, set boost cut to 2.70, and hit the rev limit at the same spot, (5500+/-). Lowered the boost cut to 2.65, and still hit the rev limit at the same place. I threw plent of boost at it in the lower rpms with no problem.
Somebody needs to tell this e-man the rev limit is 7500, not 5500!
I'll go back thru the ingnition wires.
I lowered the vtec to 4500/4400, by-passed the EMS, set boost cut to 2.70, and hit the rev limit at the same spot, (5500+/-). Lowered the boost cut to 2.65, and still hit the rev limit at the same place. I threw plent of boost at it in the lower rpms with no problem.
Somebody needs to tell this e-man the rev limit is 7500, not 5500!
I'll go back thru the ingnition wires.
I don't know if the E-manage controls the rev-limiter?!?
#237
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Originally posted by allmotor_2000
The 5500 rev limit occurs when the ECU isn't getting receiving data on all the parameters its expecting to get data - usually it pops a DTC after 2-4 cycles of this happening.
The 5500 rev limit occurs when the ECU isn't getting receiving data on all the parameters its expecting to get data - usually it pops a DTC after 2-4 cycles of this happening.
I don't know if the E-manage controls the rev-limiter?!?
![Frown](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
#238
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I've rung out every wire, plug. and socket, in every direction, and continuity checked out in every case, so at this point I think I can rule out the harness.
#239
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Originally posted by ModAddict
I've rung out every wire, plug. and socket, in every direction, and continuity checked out in every case, so at this point I think I can rule out the harness.
I've rung out every wire, plug. and socket, in every direction, and continuity checked out in every case, so at this point I think I can rule out the harness.
#240
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Originally posted by 99%StockAV6
How are you testing it? A 5500 rpm rev limit is normal in park or neutral.
How are you testing it? A 5500 rpm rev limit is normal in park or neutral.