CL-TYPE S testdrive thoughts (long post)
02-11-2001, 09:21 PM
#1
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CL-TYPE S testdrive thoughts (long post)
I'm in the market for a new car around April. My budget is $33,000 or less out the door. The CL-S really piqued my interest due to the power and features available at the relatively low price. I first test drove a BMW 325i to get a baseline for the "sporty" sedan. Just yesterday I t.d. a TL-S. Here are my thoughts divided into categories. I was just looking for some CONSTRUCTIVE feedback from current CL-S owners.
Power/handling
The car is quite powerful off the line, though I was actually a bit dissapointed as it is not as "punchy" as I expected from first. The front tires did break chirp/squeal indicating a lot of torque to be had early on. Once the engine got pas 2500 the power was smooth and strong with a good "turbine-like" feeling. Definitely it felt faster than the 325 off the line and into higher-RPMs. I was surprised to learn that initial torque/hp is about the same as the base CL. The powerband graph on the brochure bears this out. I'm satisfied with the power of this car but the smoothness of the delivery almost makes it feel slower than it really is. (not necessarily a bad point)
The saleswoman insisted on riding with me so I couldn't really push the car as hard as I wanted to. The steering is not as precise as the BMW which I expected. It seems great for a front-driver, though. My brother who was riding in the back seats really is trying to convince me to get the Bimmer because of handling superiority. Ride quality is great and felt a bit smoother than the sport package 325 I drove. I'd like some opinions of people who have drove both cars. The sport shift works better than the BMW auto sport I drove. There is a bit more delay on manumatic shifting than I would like but I've read that it gets better as the tranny warms up. It was about 45 deg. outside during the drive. One issue I'm concerned about is the high-compression Type-S powerplant requiring 92 octane gas. Gas is cheap relative where I live but still there is quite a differential between 89 and 92. Can I get away with 89 or even 87 or will the engine power suffer as a result of compensating for the lower octane fuel?
interior/luxury The perf. leather is very nice and the seats are quite supportive. My brother reported the back seats were roomy and should be still even a six footer riding shotgun. What do you guys think? My family is short so the low glass should not be an issue in the back seats. Still, it is not as convenient as a sedan would be. More on the 4-door vs coupe below...
Instrumentation is nice...more functional and less form. I felt the Bimmer has better looking controls and such. The CL switches and knobs remind me of a '88 Toyata minivan we used to have. (not that bad, but not as good as Lexus/BMW)
features/valueHands down this has the Bimmer beat as the get a similarly equipped Bimmer (non-nav) I would be probably spending $3000-$4000 more! I love the std. HIDs especially. I don't think the windows are auto power up & down on all four (bimmer's are) but this is a minor issue.
Styling/appearance
To me the Bimmer is a prettier car. The Acura is quite dull styling, though it is very clean and sporty looking. I do like the rear of the CLS more than the front. The car looks best in black which I was told by a friend to stay away from. (because it is a pain in the butt to keep clean and swirl-marks that will lead to sleepless nights!) I also wish there were more color selection available.
Value is outstanding for this car and it seems the lower demand for the CL-S over the predicted demand for the TL-S should give me quite a bit of bargaining room. I'm expecting to shave off at least $1500 off of MSRP (TLs non-NAV) What do you guys think of this? I'm willing to give up the excellent handling of the BMW for a more powerful front driver with a ton more std. features. I'm leaning strongly towards the TLS. I'd like to test drive an IS300 next to give me something else to compare to.
I'm also looking at the TL-S but judging by perceived demand on the internet and what the saleswoman told me, this car will be quite a jump in actual price compared to the 2001 CL-S. I feel I'll have much more bargaining room with the '01 CL-S.
I'd like some INTELLIGENT responses to my points and other issues that I might have missed. Thanks,
------------------
-HaVoC7701
[This message has been edited by HaVoC (edited 02-11-2001).]
Power/handling
The car is quite powerful off the line, though I was actually a bit dissapointed as it is not as "punchy" as I expected from first. The front tires did break chirp/squeal indicating a lot of torque to be had early on. Once the engine got pas 2500 the power was smooth and strong with a good "turbine-like" feeling. Definitely it felt faster than the 325 off the line and into higher-RPMs. I was surprised to learn that initial torque/hp is about the same as the base CL. The powerband graph on the brochure bears this out. I'm satisfied with the power of this car but the smoothness of the delivery almost makes it feel slower than it really is. (not necessarily a bad point)
The saleswoman insisted on riding with me so I couldn't really push the car as hard as I wanted to. The steering is not as precise as the BMW which I expected. It seems great for a front-driver, though. My brother who was riding in the back seats really is trying to convince me to get the Bimmer because of handling superiority. Ride quality is great and felt a bit smoother than the sport package 325 I drove. I'd like some opinions of people who have drove both cars. The sport shift works better than the BMW auto sport I drove. There is a bit more delay on manumatic shifting than I would like but I've read that it gets better as the tranny warms up. It was about 45 deg. outside during the drive. One issue I'm concerned about is the high-compression Type-S powerplant requiring 92 octane gas. Gas is cheap relative where I live but still there is quite a differential between 89 and 92. Can I get away with 89 or even 87 or will the engine power suffer as a result of compensating for the lower octane fuel?
interior/luxury The perf. leather is very nice and the seats are quite supportive. My brother reported the back seats were roomy and should be still even a six footer riding shotgun. What do you guys think? My family is short so the low glass should not be an issue in the back seats. Still, it is not as convenient as a sedan would be. More on the 4-door vs coupe below...
Instrumentation is nice...more functional and less form. I felt the Bimmer has better looking controls and such. The CL switches and knobs remind me of a '88 Toyata minivan we used to have. (not that bad, but not as good as Lexus/BMW)
features/valueHands down this has the Bimmer beat as the get a similarly equipped Bimmer (non-nav) I would be probably spending $3000-$4000 more! I love the std. HIDs especially. I don't think the windows are auto power up & down on all four (bimmer's are) but this is a minor issue.
Styling/appearance
To me the Bimmer is a prettier car. The Acura is quite dull styling, though it is very clean and sporty looking. I do like the rear of the CLS more than the front. The car looks best in black which I was told by a friend to stay away from. (because it is a pain in the butt to keep clean and swirl-marks that will lead to sleepless nights!) I also wish there were more color selection available.
Value is outstanding for this car and it seems the lower demand for the CL-S over the predicted demand for the TL-S should give me quite a bit of bargaining room. I'm expecting to shave off at least $1500 off of MSRP (TLs non-NAV) What do you guys think of this? I'm willing to give up the excellent handling of the BMW for a more powerful front driver with a ton more std. features. I'm leaning strongly towards the TLS. I'd like to test drive an IS300 next to give me something else to compare to.
I'm also looking at the TL-S but judging by perceived demand on the internet and what the saleswoman told me, this car will be quite a jump in actual price compared to the 2001 CL-S. I feel I'll have much more bargaining room with the '01 CL-S.
I'd like some INTELLIGENT responses to my points and other issues that I might have missed. Thanks,
------------------
-HaVoC7701
[This message has been edited by HaVoC (edited 02-11-2001).]
02-11-2001, 10:12 PM
#3
Happy CL-S Pilot
I own a CL-S/NAV with most of the Accessories since June 15, 2000. Least to say, in the first 3 months, I had to come up with any excuse to drive the car. Sometimes, in the middle of the night I just wake up and drive to nowhere on HW or some backroads.
So, I love the car and yes it's a black night hawk. A Beauty when detailed and waxed. Next to Black I would go with the Red.
It is pain in your heart when u see salty... thank to North East weather. In your case, u r in Austin, TX so I do think you will suffer as I do.
Back to your article:
Power/handling
It is "punchy" car IMHO. A simple Comptech Headers alnoe will add you some 24-32 HP to the Wheels, CAI will add another 6-10 HP. So, you will easily pass the 300 HP mark for the CLS.
Lowering the CLS ~1" using Somptech springs and adding Comptech Anit-rolll bars, in addtion to light-weight 18" wheels plus Ultra High Performance tires (e.g., Michelin Pilot Sport, Nitto 555, Yokohama Parada, etc.) will round up the "Sporty" feeling of CLS.
The tourque/HP curve is NOT the same for CL-P and CL-S. CLS max at 260 HP stock, CLP will max at 225HP. "Turbine-like" is the sweet sound of VTEC... some NASCAR sound to my ears.
When I test a CLS with my Brother (driver) he pushed to 120+ until the Salesman in back begged for mercy to not go faster.....
Gas usage: First, if your are paying $33K why you care to save 10 cents a galon for the REQUIRED 92+ Octane. Assume you drive some 18,000 miles a year that is some 800 gals/yr, so you are looking to save some $80 per YEAR and risk damaging your engine!!
Anything below the requied 92 octane could destroy your engine.
TLS would be same CLS plus 2 door, if you need the 2 extra doors. CLS price dropped quite a bit so deals could be easily done. Some dealers will add at no cost spoiler and other accessories to sweet the deal too. I strongly recomend the NAV option. I love mine and will not buy another new car without one. You are in Austin, so I guess your city would be fairly covered and the NAV is very useful as a Yellow Pages too.
TLS would be available First or Second week of March it is your call if you would like to wait for TLS.
As final note, the moment I saw the black CL-S I knew that this is the car that I would be driving for the next few years. After more than 6 moths I still love my car. I would warn you, however, that CLS loves to run at 80+ MPH, so be carefull and watch out for speed traps, or better inhibit your desires ....
------------------
Bare Bone Stock Type-S. Plenty of accessories. PIAA 19169 to be installed soon.
So, I love the car and yes it's a black night hawk. A Beauty when detailed and waxed. Next to Black I would go with the Red.
It is pain in your heart when u see salty... thank to North East weather. In your case, u r in Austin, TX so I do think you will suffer as I do.
Back to your article:
Power/handling
It is "punchy" car IMHO. A simple Comptech Headers alnoe will add you some 24-32 HP to the Wheels, CAI will add another 6-10 HP. So, you will easily pass the 300 HP mark for the CLS.
Lowering the CLS ~1" using Somptech springs and adding Comptech Anit-rolll bars, in addtion to light-weight 18" wheels plus Ultra High Performance tires (e.g., Michelin Pilot Sport, Nitto 555, Yokohama Parada, etc.) will round up the "Sporty" feeling of CLS.
The tourque/HP curve is NOT the same for CL-P and CL-S. CLS max at 260 HP stock, CLP will max at 225HP. "Turbine-like" is the sweet sound of VTEC... some NASCAR sound to my ears.
When I test a CLS with my Brother (driver) he pushed to 120+ until the Salesman in back begged for mercy to not go faster.....
Gas usage: First, if your are paying $33K why you care to save 10 cents a galon for the REQUIRED 92+ Octane. Assume you drive some 18,000 miles a year that is some 800 gals/yr, so you are looking to save some $80 per YEAR and risk damaging your engine!!
Anything below the requied 92 octane could destroy your engine.
TLS would be same CLS plus 2 door, if you need the 2 extra doors. CLS price dropped quite a bit so deals could be easily done. Some dealers will add at no cost spoiler and other accessories to sweet the deal too. I strongly recomend the NAV option. I love mine and will not buy another new car without one. You are in Austin, so I guess your city would be fairly covered and the NAV is very useful as a Yellow Pages too.
TLS would be available First or Second week of March it is your call if you would like to wait for TLS.
As final note, the moment I saw the black CL-S I knew that this is the car that I would be driving for the next few years. After more than 6 moths I still love my car. I would warn you, however, that CLS loves to run at 80+ MPH, so be carefull and watch out for speed traps, or better inhibit your desires ....
------------------
Bare Bone Stock Type-S. Plenty of accessories. PIAA 19169 to be installed soon.
02-11-2001, 11:01 PM
#4
Suzuka Master
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You should really drive the car by your self. I way 120 and the car feels so much faster when I'm driving on my own. You will deffinetly feel a kick in power when you get the comptech headers and for steering/cornering the springs and sway bars should fix no problem.
------------------
CL-S
White/Ebony/Navi/Spoiler/Visor/Full Bra/Mud Guards/Cargo Net/Acura Car Cover/Tint 20%,35%,5% on Sun Roof, Rockford 250a2 Amp w/JL10w6 / K&N Drop in Filter. Comptech Springs. Polarg m-6.
Comptech Headers, Comptech Sways, Eurolite Xenon Crystal high beams.
AEM CAI once they decide to make the dame thing.
235/40/17's or 225/45/17's once I found out which one works for me.
gtech 0-60 6.03 w/ 438 pound load. preheader.
------------------
CL-S
White/Ebony/Navi/Spoiler/Visor/Full Bra/Mud Guards/Cargo Net/Acura Car Cover/Tint 20%,35%,5% on Sun Roof, Rockford 250a2 Amp w/JL10w6 / K&N Drop in Filter. Comptech Springs. Polarg m-6.
Comptech Headers, Comptech Sways, Eurolite Xenon Crystal high beams.
AEM CAI once they decide to make the dame thing.
235/40/17's or 225/45/17's once I found out which one works for me.
gtech 0-60 6.03 w/ 438 pound load. preheader.
02-11-2001, 11:54 PM
#5
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It really takes the purpose out of a test driving a sporty car when there's a salesman in the car bent on keeping things "safe", which is completely stupid because:
1. The test vehicle is covered by insurance with no risk to the salesperson.
2. Usually, the harder a buyer is trying to wring out a car, the more serious the buyer's interest.
HaVoC: It seems like you are considering sporty automatics at around 30K. At the risk of incurring the wrath of some forum members, have you considered an IS300? It will be faster than the 325 yet slower than the CL-S, and handle somewhere in between the two.
------------------
051/LP/SR/LD/HH
1. The test vehicle is covered by insurance with no risk to the salesperson.
2. Usually, the harder a buyer is trying to wring out a car, the more serious the buyer's interest.
HaVoC: It seems like you are considering sporty automatics at around 30K. At the risk of incurring the wrath of some forum members, have you considered an IS300? It will be faster than the 325 yet slower than the CL-S, and handle somewhere in between the two.
------------------
051/LP/SR/LD/HH
02-12-2001, 12:12 AM
#6
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Test drive by yourself.... I was able to answer alot of questions I had during the test drive. Like how fast it was, how it would take corners, and Sport Shifter behavor up and down shifting. Both the Acura and Bimmer dealers let me drive by myself.
------------------
01 Silver 3.2CLS
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01 Silver 3.2CLS
02-12-2001, 01:00 AM
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I'm glad I didn't buy the one I test drove
With only about 30 miles on that one, really gave it a good hard run, had the sales guy squirming!! I think he was holding on too tight to get any words out of his mouth. I wouldn't have been able to hear him anyway with the radio blasting and the tires spinning
The one I bought was just unloaded from the truck that morning. Still had shrink wrapping all over it, a nice pink shrink wrap on the tires, clear over the seats, white sheets over hood/trunk/etc.
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Silver CL type S, upgraded cupholder, PIAA-19169, 3 coats Zaino and a pinch of salt
No Navi cause no matter where I go, there I am
With only about 30 miles on that one, really gave it a good hard run, had the sales guy squirming!! I think he was holding on too tight to get any words out of his mouth. I wouldn't have been able to hear him anyway with the radio blasting and the tires spinning
The one I bought was just unloaded from the truck that morning. Still had shrink wrapping all over it, a nice pink shrink wrap on the tires, clear over the seats, white sheets over hood/trunk/etc.
------------------
Silver CL type S, upgraded cupholder, PIAA-19169, 3 coats Zaino and a pinch of salt
No Navi cause no matter where I go, there I am
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02-12-2001, 01:10 AM
#8
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The salesperson was just probably worried she would pee her pants and ruin the leather.
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'01 Acura CL Type S nothing special yet but give me a month or so.
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'01 Acura CL Type S nothing special yet but give me a month or so.
02-12-2001, 11:50 AM
#9
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1) I wouldn't worry about the 92 octane thing... like Nashua said... it's really not that much more money to spend.
2) The owner's manual says something about it being okay to use lower octane fuel, but reduced power may accompany this change. The rule of thumb is... if it doesn't ping, you're fine. If you can use lower octane, then do it. However, I highly doubt you'll be able to use lower octane fuel as my CL-S even pings on some brands of 92.
3) I agree that a CL-S will probably be a couple thousand less than a TL-S in real world numbers due to demand. It may take a good 9 months or so for the TL-S prices to come down. We'll see.
4) Comptech springs and sway bars make an incredible difference in the handling dynamics of this car. The car feels so much sportier with little penalty in ride quality. They'd run you < $1000 installed and if handling is a priority I'd strongly recommend them.
------------------
2001 Acura 3.2CL Type S
Comptech Springs
Comptech Sway Bars
Comptech Headers to be installed in a couple weeks
PIAA 19169
[This message has been edited by GoldTypeS (edited 02-12-2001).]
2) The owner's manual says something about it being okay to use lower octane fuel, but reduced power may accompany this change. The rule of thumb is... if it doesn't ping, you're fine. If you can use lower octane, then do it. However, I highly doubt you'll be able to use lower octane fuel as my CL-S even pings on some brands of 92.
3) I agree that a CL-S will probably be a couple thousand less than a TL-S in real world numbers due to demand. It may take a good 9 months or so for the TL-S prices to come down. We'll see.
4) Comptech springs and sway bars make an incredible difference in the handling dynamics of this car. The car feels so much sportier with little penalty in ride quality. They'd run you < $1000 installed and if handling is a priority I'd strongly recommend them.
------------------
2001 Acura 3.2CL Type S
Comptech Springs
Comptech Sway Bars
Comptech Headers to be installed in a couple weeks
PIAA 19169
[This message has been edited by GoldTypeS (edited 02-12-2001).]
02-12-2001, 12:10 PM
#10
What, me worry?
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I would just like to add, how long you plan on keeping it. My past experience with Mercedes and BMW is that at about the six year point reliability falls off. If you go to bimmer.org you can get a feel for what to expect. They're wonderful cars it just that I got sick of everytime they pop the hood it's $600+. I figured I'd sacrifice a little ultimate handling for reliablity. Besides, I live in Texas there's not too many opportunites to use it except on/off ramps and the occasional 'favorite curve' on the way to work. With the money saved, I bought a used Miata to toy around with.
02-12-2001, 02:35 PM
#11
Pro
HaVOc, read July 2000 Motor Trnd. The Type S wins in comparison with a 328Ci--It's also about 10,000 less when you match feature to feature. It's also much bigger and longer. Buy value or buy a name.
02-12-2001, 03:08 PM
#12
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Thanks for the replies guys. This is exactly the type of feedback I was seeking. Nashua_Night_Hawk's quick math on Premium gas seems quite reasonable. $80 a year difference is not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. Anyone know the compression ratio of the CL-S offhand? I was thinking 10:1.
As far as souping up my car I'm not a big mods person. I really enjoy driving the car stock. However, if I drive a mod'ed CL-S with the springs and swaybar and I like the handling, I might go for it. I find it hard to believe that headers can add 24-32 horses to the drive wheels! 15 I can believe. I did see the comptech header package on a mod'ed CL-P at the dealer. It looked like a great install job.
DtEW: Yes I'm also considering the IS. I'm gonna testdrive it first chance I get. I feel that currently the car is a bit overpriced, though and a little too small. I'll have to drive it and think long/hard. So far the CL-S is still at top my list! The TL-S looks to be more expensive than the second set of doors are worth though time will tell by April.
------------------
-HaVoC7701
[This message has been edited by HaVoC (edited 02-12-2001).]
As far as souping up my car I'm not a big mods person. I really enjoy driving the car stock. However, if I drive a mod'ed CL-S with the springs and swaybar and I like the handling, I might go for it. I find it hard to believe that headers can add 24-32 horses to the drive wheels! 15 I can believe. I did see the comptech header package on a mod'ed CL-P at the dealer. It looked like a great install job.
DtEW: Yes I'm also considering the IS. I'm gonna testdrive it first chance I get. I feel that currently the car is a bit overpriced, though and a little too small. I'll have to drive it and think long/hard. So far the CL-S is still at top my list! The TL-S looks to be more expensive than the second set of doors are worth though time will tell by April.
------------------
-HaVoC7701
[This message has been edited by HaVoC (edited 02-12-2001).]
02-12-2001, 03:10 PM
#13
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The test drive is a real clincher. I also went on the drive alone and that leaves a little more room for you to drop the hammer. I took the car to the parking lot of a local college and beat the crap out of her. The CLS responded each time i hit her. I thought the handling left a little bit to be desired so I lowered her by 1 3/4' and added some sway bars and now she handles like she is on rails. I cant give an opinion about the Bimmer but I have heard better reviews of the CLS than the bimmer. hope this helps
JB
------------------
CL-S BLK on BLK
Navi,mudgaurds,
spoiler,Eibach springs dropped 1 3/4 in ,35%,sitting on 19" Altstadts & Nitto 555 235/35/19s
Comptech headers and sways.
GReddy Dual MX exhaust
JB
------------------
CL-S BLK on BLK
Navi,mudgaurds,
spoiler,Eibach springs dropped 1 3/4 in ,35%,sitting on 19" Altstadts & Nitto 555 235/35/19s
Comptech headers and sways.
GReddy Dual MX exhaust
02-12-2001, 03:26 PM
#14
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Havoc,
1) buy the better gas. period. Don't do anything that Acura engineers tell you not to do.
2) Do some searching on this forum - you will find someone has posted data to the fact that headers add a great deal of hp. That solves your power problem
3) Do some searching to see the reactin of those who have added springs and/or sways. That will handle you handling problem.
4) Do the math, you will still have money left over. Use it to buy the navigation system.
5) Also look at the S4, another great sport sedan. I think you'll be back.
If you can't find the links, post again and ask for one of us to find it...
-Mike
------------------
CL-S #22,299 Black/Parchment/Nav, spoiler, door & fender guards, wood trim, PIAA 19169 & 9005, V1 w/remote, trunk & winter mats, no headers, no sway bars, no springs, no money!
1) buy the better gas. period. Don't do anything that Acura engineers tell you not to do.
2) Do some searching on this forum - you will find someone has posted data to the fact that headers add a great deal of hp. That solves your power problem
3) Do some searching to see the reactin of those who have added springs and/or sways. That will handle you handling problem.
4) Do the math, you will still have money left over. Use it to buy the navigation system.
5) Also look at the S4, another great sport sedan. I think you'll be back.
If you can't find the links, post again and ask for one of us to find it...
-Mike
------------------
CL-S #22,299 Black/Parchment/Nav, spoiler, door & fender guards, wood trim, PIAA 19169 & 9005, V1 w/remote, trunk & winter mats, no headers, no sway bars, no springs, no money!
02-12-2001, 03:31 PM
#15
Three Wheelin'
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by HaVoC:
I find it hard to believe that headers can add 24-32 horses to the drive wheels! 15 I can believe. I did see the comptech header package on a mod'ed CL-P at the dealer. It looked like a great install job.
</font>
I find it hard to believe that headers can add 24-32 horses to the drive wheels! 15 I can believe. I did see the comptech header package on a mod'ed CL-P at the dealer. It looked like a great install job.
</font>
His dyno is posted on this site at this link http://www.acura-cl.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000726.html------------------
2001 Acura 3.2CL Type S
Comptech Springs
Comptech Sway Bars
Comptech Headers to be installed in a couple weeks
PIAA 19169
02-13-2001, 12:11 AM
#16
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Wow, that link certainly satisfied my doubts! That's pretty amazing about the headers. I know drag racers use them on pro-stock cars to decrease backpressure but I was skeptical they could do so much for a production street car.
I think the Type-S engine with the improved induction benefits more from the headers as it seems the stock manifold is a bit of a bottleneck.
One question I have is if these things increase power so much, why doesn't Honda install them stock!?? I mean to say is there any disadvantages or bad attributes to headers? (noise, heat or reliability issues?)
If I get the Type-S looks like I've found my first upgrade (headers)! (though I don't wanna over-modify my car) I was surprised to see the dyno results showing improvement in torque right off of 3000 rpm. Must be something to due with the VTEC.
------------------
-HaVoC7701
I think the Type-S engine with the improved induction benefits more from the headers as it seems the stock manifold is a bit of a bottleneck.
One question I have is if these things increase power so much, why doesn't Honda install them stock!?? I mean to say is there any disadvantages or bad attributes to headers? (noise, heat or reliability issues?)
If I get the Type-S looks like I've found my first upgrade (headers)! (though I don't wanna over-modify my car) I was surprised to see the dyno results showing improvement in torque right off of 3000 rpm. Must be something to due with the VTEC.
------------------
-HaVoC7701
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05-03-2022 08:54 PM
darksky
3G TL Problems & Fixes
2
09-05-2015 03:11 AM