spiroh

I wonder if they will make Cam Gears for our car? Would a cam gear be beneficial on our car?

spiro

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
Random Technology Cat
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

moomaster_99

No one knows for sure if Vtec cams work.

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2001 Cl-S Black on Black with Navigation
Black Tint all around (15%~45%)
Weapon-R Dragon Filter
Weapon-R Coil-Overs
Koni Adjustable Struts
Comptech Sway Bars
Comptech Headers (hehehe...I got something for you drchang!!)
14.698 @95.977mph....Sears Point Raceway.I think I need a Level 10 Torque Converter!!
Yes, I know I'm going to hell for wasting gas on Civics....
My Peoples

JRock

I think they sell those on the shelf with the lubed tail-light gyros and performance stabilizer pulleys.

-J

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2001 CL-S Aegean Blue/black interior spoiler, wheel locks, no-navi
Stock for now.
50% tint sides, 35% back.

spiroh

VTEC cams work. At least they did on the integra, but Im talking about the cam gears.

Spiro



------------------
Black/Black 2001 CL-S
Random Technology Cat
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

moomaster_99

You see a place to install cam gears?

------------------
2001 Cl-S Black on Black with Navigation
Black Tint all around (15%~45%)
Weapon-R Dragon Filter
Weapon-R Coil-Overs
Koni Adjustable Struts
Comptech Sway Bars
Comptech Headers (hehehe...I got something for you drchang!!)
14.698 @95.977mph....Sears Point Raceway.I think I need a Level 10 Torque Converter!!
Yes, I know I'm going to hell for wasting gas on Civics....
My Peoples

spiroh

If we have a SOHC engine then we have a cam gear.

Spiro

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
Random Technology Cat
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

moomaster_99

I guess...but since our timing is not able to be advanced...wouldn't that make the cam gear unable to be adjusted?

------------------
2001 Cl-S Black on Black with Navigation
Black Tint all around (15%~45%)
Weapon-R Dragon Filter
Weapon-R Coil-Overs
Koni Adjustable Struts
Comptech Sway Bars
Comptech Headers (hehehe...I got something for you drchang!!)
14.698 @95.977mph....Sears Point Raceway.I think I need a Level 10 Torque Converter!!
Yes, I know I'm going to hell for wasting gas on Civics....
My Peoples

spiroh

Different kind of timing. We would be adjusting the cams timing, not the ignition.

Spiro



------------------
Black/Black 2001 CL-S
Random Technology Cat
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

scalbert

Yes a Cam gear would fit. But it would not work as well as with the DOHC.

Since we have only one cam per head that work both the intake and exhaust valves the gain potential is little to none. Which way to you adjust it?? Advance or retard?? In DOHC applications you can tune both the intake and exhaust cams for optimal power. But this tuning is in the opposite direction which is fine for DOHC since they are separate gears.

In our SOHC application, by adjusting it one way you gain some in one band but loose elsewhere. From what I recall, if you advance the timing of the gear you'll gain up high in the revs but loose power down low. Retarding the timing has the opposite affect, gaining down low and loosing power as the revs climb.

So in the end you can end up with 0 average power gain. This might be OK if tuning for continually revving high, etc.

spiroh

I saw a dyno where they left the degrees to 0, and still gained 2hp. Personally I wouldnt do cam gears until warranty runs out..but I was just wondering about it.



------------------
Black/Black 2001 CL-S
Random Technology Cat
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

scalbert

Just normal dyno variances. The idea of Cam gears are to change the phasing of the intake and exhaust vales opeing/closing. Leaving it at 0 degrees is identical to running the stock gears. Unless it were off a bit and they weren't actually running at 0 degrees??

On second thought, they might also be lighter allowing it to turn a little easier. Just a thought...

[This message has been edited by scalbert (edited 06-06-2001).]

spiroh

Yeah that would make sense. Less rotational mass to move.

Spiro



------------------
Black/Black 2001 CL-S
Random Technology Cat
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

Chris

scalbert is always so knowledgeable

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Acura 3.2CL Type-S w/ Navigation
Black/Ebony

- H&R Sport Springs
- Pirelli P7000 Supersport 235/40ZR17 on stock rims
- Neuspeed Tower Strut Bar
- Custom CAI
- Cleared Headlights, PIAA 19169
- Tint all around
- Mesh Grill
- Dual 12'' Alpine Type-S Subs
- Kenwood KAC-728S Amp

-=SoCalV6=-

We asked AEM officials at the SEMA/NOPI Salon last Feb/March about this in regards to the Accord v6. I couldn't even remotely remember the technical mumbo jumbo, but evidently there's certain things that need to be removed (hydraulic in nature) that would make it a bitch n a half to not only just install new cam gears ( I say cam gears because eventhough we're SOHC, we have two SOHC heads ) but also advance or retard them, since each time you'd have to reassemble and then take it a part again. They're not as easily exposed as the 4 cylinder ones, again, I believe because of the hydraulic nature. I'm sure Jens or Syncivic would have something to say on this and the reasons why. Basically AEM just doesn't see it as feasible to do based on their opinion at SEMA/NOPI

------------------
-=SoCalV6=-
1999 TW Accord EX v6 Cpe
aka Valentine with some show 'n go.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...5449&a=6671899
*Comptech Headers, Sways, V6 Oil Cap/Batt TD
*WeaponR Circuit Pros,CF Intake, Dragon Filter, FPR, Breather, Coo Res, G-Spec Floors, 4-PTs
*Koni Yellows
*18/7.5/+40 Volk TE37s
*225/40/18 Nitto NT-555s
*Tanabe Hyper Medals
*PIAA Hi's,lo's,Fogs, Wedge
*Nology HotWires,Powercore Ig Amp
*Razo Pedals, NE AT Knob
*GD2000BW, WW Touring Wing

[This message has been edited by -=SoCalV6=- (edited 06-07-2001).]

scalbert

Installing cam gears would be easy. They are easily exposed and attainable.

All V6s have two heads, that is irrelevant. An I6 has a single head. It has to do with the cam(s) and its actuation on the valves. Does it open the intake and exhaust vales, SOHC. If there are two that individually open the intake or exhaust valves, DOHC.

-=SoCalV6=-

I realize it's irrelevant to the operation of the camshafts, because even if we have two SOHC heads or four or eight SOHC heads, they still operate both the intake valves and exhaust valves from one camshaft per head. HOWEVER, many people seem to mistake our engine for only having one cam gear eventhough we are a v6, hence the reason why I mentioned the fact we have two cam gears to tune, even IF we're not a DOHC. Does that mean we can retard as well as advance at the same time? NO, just means we have two cam gears to advance OR retard. Not sure why you mentioned the i6 though, as they can be SOHC or DOHC. No reason to get cocky, although I guess ur ego was bloated by the afortmentioned compliments of ur genius, so there's no room for like minds.

If you feel the cam gears are easily reachable, call AEM and tell them what you tell me. Then see what their explanation is for not producing them, because demand is TOTALLY irrelevant and not even a reasonable excuse considering how many pulleys and CAI's and short rams they sell for the v6's, so they'll have to pull something else outta their ass for ya and hopefully they'll tell ya the same thing they told me. If they're that easy to reach and tune, there's no reason why they shouldn't make them, so if anyone should be able to convince them otherwise, I guess it should be you.

Chris

now socalv6 is making more sense... haha

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Acura 3.2CL Type-S w/ Navigation
Black/Ebony

H&R Sport Springs | Pirelli P7000 Supersport 235/40ZR17 on stock rims | Neuspeed Tower Strut Bar | Custom CAI | Cleared Headlights, PIAA 19169 | Tint all around | Mesh Grill | Dual 12'' Alpine Type-S Subs | Kenwood KAC-728S Amp

EricL

Steve -- very nicely put.

Your 95% correct. There are a few cars that do gain with a cam gear (and SOHC), but it is a trade-off, and I wonder how many dyno shops would have the talent and time to get it right. Some of the earlier SOHC engines gained a bit with a timing gear, but this was not always the case (and a trade-off as you said).

The give and take at low end/high end is an exercise that requires great patience and a lot of time -- and the gains might actually be negative.




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Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines w/Brembos?
• Comptech headers & sways
• Silver AEM CAI
• 10 coats of Zaino magic

scalbert

I am sorry if you mistook my comments, I was not intending to be 'cocky' or whatever. Just wanting to clarify the comments...

Anyway, the cam gears are just cover by individual shrouds. In fact there is a rubber grommet in the cover that you can pull off and physically touch the gears. The front one is right between the alternator and power steering pump. There would be a little difficulty getting at the rear one due to the strut tower but not anymore so that getting at the alternator.

I'm simply stating what I know having been under the hood a number of times. Why AEM would state that, I don't know. Or could there been misinterpretation on two sides?? Regardless the pulleys are attainable, but IMO, there is little to be gained by swapping them in our SOHC configuration.

And again, I was meaning no disrespect and apologize if you took it that way.

-=SoCalV6=-

I apologize for mis-interpreting. However, from what you tell me, I still think someone should contact AEM about this. I realize you don't consider it a worth-while investment to attempt to tune, but some of us would like to try it. I suppose I'll have to write AEM or call Greg Nakano and ask him the direct reasons why they won't make them, and then relay that information back to you and see what you think.

syncivic

There is nothing Hydraulic in nature that would preclude this type of work. But there is another reason...

Although we have a prototype gear in process, the problem is the TDC sensor uses 3 of the 5 "spokes" of the gear as a reluctor ring. These spokes can be identified with the gear removed and the 3 "pyramid" shaped blocks attached mid span of the spoke correlating to the sensor pick up arc on the head. This complicates the construction of the piece. The ignision is coil over so an offset to ignition timing to optimize a "degreed" cam would be accomplished with a new CKP sensor bracket. If you think getting in here and working behind the T-Belt is easy on this model - your crazy!!! But we are still working it out just to see.

astro

so, is this the mystery mod??

SidVicious

Maybe it is the sensor itself. You can trick the computer by changing the sensor rather than the gear. hmmm...

astro

I think that may well be right...since everything on our car is electronic, it's probably pretty easy to develop something that fools it into changing things...

typeR

which is what i said cause before chris K. left he had that thing he was workin on where he was challenging certain BMW owners and showed us a 5.33 gtech and it seems there was an apex'i and a harness involved...and chris i think had a line of communication with doug...hum???

soopa

....... and the circle was complete.

blazerbob1

Oh! Just a minor correction when tuning cams! Advancing cam increased low end power and retarding cam increased high power! I think our car is amazingly balanced with its power band. Curious what advancing 2* would do on a dyno! But real world test would be what it would do in 1/4m!