The Big Bad Nitrous Post
09-12-2003, 05:21 PM
#1
teh Senior Instigator
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The Big Bad Nitrous Post
shameless stole from my350Z.com but it's very very important knowledge for everyone!
Originally posted by eskimo
Alright, most every car specific board has a post like this and I felt like it's about time we had one. The information about N20 (dinitrogen oxide) is so scattered, and largely uninformed on this board anyway. So on to it.
Introduction part (skip this if you’re not bored):
Dinitrogen Oxide, "Di" because nitrogen is a diatomic molecule and can only exist as two atoms of nitrogen together, other diatomic molecules include hydrogen, oxygen, bromine, iodine, and chlorine, but that dosen’t really matter. Nitrous was discovered by Joseph Priestly in 1772, introduced to dentistry in 1844 by Horace Wells, blah blah blah. Many people know nitrous was originally used in WWII piston powered airplanes for a little extra boost, and for more information on the history of nitrous (and the history of NOS, the company) click here.
What nitrous is/does:
Nitrous is stored as a liquid and done so by using pressure— 10.857 PSI per degree Fahrenheit to be exact. When you go to get your bottle filled at your local performance shop, you won’t just get a bottle of nitrous, you’ll also get sulfur dioxide (pretty much ass gas since it smells bad) to keep you from huffing it or selling it to little kids at raves. You weren’t planning to do either of those anyway were you?
Continuing, nitrous oxide works the way it does because unlike regular air, it is 36% oxygen, regular air has a 23% oxygen content. At the magical and wonderful temperature of 572ºF N20 gives up those tasty oxygen atoms, and as most of us know, more air means more gas is burned, which in turn means more power. Also when the nitrous decompresses it cools the regular air coming into the engine which means denser air, which means more air in the same space, which is a very good thing. Basically nitrous oxide is better air than air.
What nitrous doesn’t do:
Burn, nitrous oxide does not burn, it is not flammable! Basically, the air around you burns when you light a match, if you lit a match in a room of nitrous, thanks to more oxygen, which is flammable, the match would burn brighter and longer. Alright now that we’re past that. Nitrous doesn’t blow up engines, this is what happens: !!!IMPORTANT PART!!! In a “dry” application, pure nitrous oxide (and sulfur dioxide if you’ve been following along) are sent into your intake via a “jet”, jet size determines the amount of horsepower you’ll get out of the “shot” of nitrous. Nitrous wants to be a liquid so when it’s flying through the air if it doesn’t make it to the engine before it turns back into a liquid and settles into your intake manifold, this is called puddling, a simple common backfire of your engine will at some point be exposed to this mass amount of N2O that is now sitting, liquefied at the bottom of your intake, causing a mass explosion, well mass might be too strong a word, but its gonna cost ya a bunch to fix it. In a “wet” application where nitrous and fuel are injected into your intake puddling is even more dangerous because there is now fuel and N2O sitting in your intake waiting to explode (think of Apollo 1, they filled it entirely with oxygen, everything was fine until a tiny spark blew it up on the launch pad) How do we make sure the nitrous explodes in the cylinder and not the intake manifold, by getting it there quicker, how do we do that? By pulling more air into the engine faster, we do that by raising your engine’s speed (it’s RPM) more air is then getting sucked in. 4000 RPM and above are generally considered safe to send nitrous into, but the higher the safer so long as it’s far enough away from redline that you can shift if you have a manual transmission. This is where automatics reign supreme, the drivers don’t have to worry about shifting, the engine shifts at redline every time, further preventing engine damage. Also, a straight intake pipe rather than the air boxes most cars have offers less places for the nitrous to get stuck and puddle. From pure appearance the 350Z’s intake looks like a safe enough factory intake to send nitrous into.
Nitrous systems:
There are dry shots and there are wet shots. Dry shots are sending just nitrous into your intake, wet shots are sending nitrous and fuel into your intake. Dry shots are used for ~75HP and below because your ECU can detect the mass amount of oxygen and send more fuel in to compensate, above 75HP or there abouts, your engines gonna need a little extra help getting the right amount of fuel in the cylinders, this is where the wet shots come in. I personally prefer dry shots because I feel like they’re safer, and don’t feel that an “all-nitrous” race car is a good idea. If you’re reading this you probably don’t need to worry about direct-port nitrous injection, but if you want to know what it is, it’s sending nitrous and fuel directly into your intake ports. This is done in very high horsepower shots ~150 and above in order to ensure equal fuel and nitrous distribution to each cylinder.
Nitrous companies:
-Holley’s NOS –Blue bottle
-NX – White bottle
-Zex – Purple bottle
-Venom –Black bottle
-Bottle color doesn’t mean jack. There are probably other companies using those colors too.
Alright, here’s my opinions on the above companies. I don’t like NOS, I like NX, I’ve heard bad things about Venom, but I think they have good ideas, and I’m indifferent to Zex but it supposedly has a very simple install due to clumping together parts in little boxes. Now here’s why. I don’t like NOS because they’ve done that thing big companies like Sony and Olympus have done, they got a big name, and then start making poor quality products, using their name plate to sell products. I also don’t like NOS because of stuff like this “NOS has always been known for thoroughly engineering each application (unlike our competition)”— straight from their website, which does offer lots of good information on nitrous. If you’re a diehard domestic lover, you’re probably all about tradition and will go for it just because of the name, also if you’re a die hard fast and furious fan you’ll probably go with NOS due again to it’s name, but soon NX will be the nitrous of 2fast 2 furious, so where will ya be then. NX is my personal favorite, they offer a great assortment of accessories, as does Zex, including a remote bottle opener, but honestly, with the two-seater Z, do you really need to spend a couple hundred bucks to not reach into the hatch area? NX sells high-quality parts and has good support from what I’ve heard. Zex as I said, provides the simplest install and offers lots of accessories; ask around about their product quality, I haven’t heard much about them. Venom offers some pretty hardcore computerized nitrous set ups for a bundle of cash, which seem to be really really good, but from what I’ve recently heard, people run into lots of problems with the set up. If you find someone with any set up ask them how they like it and why.
Overview:
You have a bottle full o’ N20 you shove the hose in your intake and point it towards the throttle, then at the push of a button, or at the trigger of a couple thousand RPM your engine gets more air, your fuel burns more, you engine RPM jumps, and your car is cleared for take off. By the way, the trigger at a couple thousand RPM I speak of is called a “window switch.” Also it’s important to know that once you’ve installed nitrous you only have to run it when you want, there is an “arming” switch which I believe is in all set ups so you only get nitrous when you want it. Other kinds of switches are the fast and furious style buttons and the WOT (wide open throttle) switch, or a combination of any of those.
Appends:
I suppose I should talk a little more about the jets and how often a bottle costs to refill and how quickly it runs out.
To fill a bottle of N20 at your local automotive performance store costs anywhere from $3.50 to $5.00 a pound, the standard bottle size is 10lbs but ranges from 10oz. to 20lbs so $35-$50 a bottle to fill for your standard car kit. How long the bottle lasts is based around your jet size and running time, or at least the estimated horsepower produced by your jet size. If you run a 50 shot, which is ~50HP (I’ve seen 50 shots make over 60HP with the right bottle pressure) and a jet size of 35 if you're interested you will use 0.4lbs of nitrous every 10 seconds, so a little over 4 solid minutes on the bottle, by the way, your engine will die if you're on the bottle for 4 minutes straight since you'll be bouncing off the rev limiter for about 3.5 minutes NX's website gives the formula 0.8 lbs N2O X 10 seconds = 100 horsepower if you want to apply that to what you think you’re going to run.
Jet Sizes:
I honestly have no idea what the jet size number means, other than the fact that it’s a scale of the size of the hole in the jet. Using my calculator a fairly close relation of jet size to horsepower is the formula .0217j + 1.469j - 18.657 = P where 'j' is the jet size and 'P' is the estimated horsepower, this estimation is at a bottle pressure of 1050PSI. Since I don't expect any of you to use that formula which is 99.5% accurate here are some examples:
Jet Size:Estimated Horsepower@1050psi
14:10
20:22.5
26:30
35:52.5
46:95
62:170
Alright, most every car specific board has a post like this and I felt like it's about time we had one. The information about N20 (dinitrogen oxide) is so scattered, and largely uninformed on this board anyway. So on to it.
Introduction part (skip this if you’re not bored):
Dinitrogen Oxide, "Di" because nitrogen is a diatomic molecule and can only exist as two atoms of nitrogen together, other diatomic molecules include hydrogen, oxygen, bromine, iodine, and chlorine, but that dosen’t really matter. Nitrous was discovered by Joseph Priestly in 1772, introduced to dentistry in 1844 by Horace Wells, blah blah blah. Many people know nitrous was originally used in WWII piston powered airplanes for a little extra boost, and for more information on the history of nitrous (and the history of NOS, the company) click here.
What nitrous is/does:
Nitrous is stored as a liquid and done so by using pressure— 10.857 PSI per degree Fahrenheit to be exact. When you go to get your bottle filled at your local performance shop, you won’t just get a bottle of nitrous, you’ll also get sulfur dioxide (pretty much ass gas since it smells bad) to keep you from huffing it or selling it to little kids at raves. You weren’t planning to do either of those anyway were you?
Continuing, nitrous oxide works the way it does because unlike regular air, it is 36% oxygen, regular air has a 23% oxygen content. At the magical and wonderful temperature of 572ºF N20 gives up those tasty oxygen atoms, and as most of us know, more air means more gas is burned, which in turn means more power. Also when the nitrous decompresses it cools the regular air coming into the engine which means denser air, which means more air in the same space, which is a very good thing. Basically nitrous oxide is better air than air.
What nitrous doesn’t do:
Burn, nitrous oxide does not burn, it is not flammable! Basically, the air around you burns when you light a match, if you lit a match in a room of nitrous, thanks to more oxygen, which is flammable, the match would burn brighter and longer. Alright now that we’re past that. Nitrous doesn’t blow up engines, this is what happens: !!!IMPORTANT PART!!! In a “dry” application, pure nitrous oxide (and sulfur dioxide if you’ve been following along) are sent into your intake via a “jet”, jet size determines the amount of horsepower you’ll get out of the “shot” of nitrous. Nitrous wants to be a liquid so when it’s flying through the air if it doesn’t make it to the engine before it turns back into a liquid and settles into your intake manifold, this is called puddling, a simple common backfire of your engine will at some point be exposed to this mass amount of N2O that is now sitting, liquefied at the bottom of your intake, causing a mass explosion, well mass might be too strong a word, but its gonna cost ya a bunch to fix it. In a “wet” application where nitrous and fuel are injected into your intake puddling is even more dangerous because there is now fuel and N2O sitting in your intake waiting to explode (think of Apollo 1, they filled it entirely with oxygen, everything was fine until a tiny spark blew it up on the launch pad) How do we make sure the nitrous explodes in the cylinder and not the intake manifold, by getting it there quicker, how do we do that? By pulling more air into the engine faster, we do that by raising your engine’s speed (it’s RPM) more air is then getting sucked in. 4000 RPM and above are generally considered safe to send nitrous into, but the higher the safer so long as it’s far enough away from redline that you can shift if you have a manual transmission. This is where automatics reign supreme, the drivers don’t have to worry about shifting, the engine shifts at redline every time, further preventing engine damage. Also, a straight intake pipe rather than the air boxes most cars have offers less places for the nitrous to get stuck and puddle. From pure appearance the 350Z’s intake looks like a safe enough factory intake to send nitrous into.
Nitrous systems:
There are dry shots and there are wet shots. Dry shots are sending just nitrous into your intake, wet shots are sending nitrous and fuel into your intake. Dry shots are used for ~75HP and below because your ECU can detect the mass amount of oxygen and send more fuel in to compensate, above 75HP or there abouts, your engines gonna need a little extra help getting the right amount of fuel in the cylinders, this is where the wet shots come in. I personally prefer dry shots because I feel like they’re safer, and don’t feel that an “all-nitrous” race car is a good idea. If you’re reading this you probably don’t need to worry about direct-port nitrous injection, but if you want to know what it is, it’s sending nitrous and fuel directly into your intake ports. This is done in very high horsepower shots ~150 and above in order to ensure equal fuel and nitrous distribution to each cylinder.
Nitrous companies:
-Holley’s NOS –Blue bottle
-NX – White bottle
-Zex – Purple bottle
-Venom –Black bottle
-Bottle color doesn’t mean jack. There are probably other companies using those colors too.
Alright, here’s my opinions on the above companies. I don’t like NOS, I like NX, I’ve heard bad things about Venom, but I think they have good ideas, and I’m indifferent to Zex but it supposedly has a very simple install due to clumping together parts in little boxes. Now here’s why. I don’t like NOS because they’ve done that thing big companies like Sony and Olympus have done, they got a big name, and then start making poor quality products, using their name plate to sell products. I also don’t like NOS because of stuff like this “NOS has always been known for thoroughly engineering each application (unlike our competition)”— straight from their website, which does offer lots of good information on nitrous. If you’re a diehard domestic lover, you’re probably all about tradition and will go for it just because of the name, also if you’re a die hard fast and furious fan you’ll probably go with NOS due again to it’s name, but soon NX will be the nitrous of 2fast 2 furious, so where will ya be then. NX is my personal favorite, they offer a great assortment of accessories, as does Zex, including a remote bottle opener, but honestly, with the two-seater Z, do you really need to spend a couple hundred bucks to not reach into the hatch area? NX sells high-quality parts and has good support from what I’ve heard. Zex as I said, provides the simplest install and offers lots of accessories; ask around about their product quality, I haven’t heard much about them. Venom offers some pretty hardcore computerized nitrous set ups for a bundle of cash, which seem to be really really good, but from what I’ve recently heard, people run into lots of problems with the set up. If you find someone with any set up ask them how they like it and why.
Overview:
You have a bottle full o’ N20 you shove the hose in your intake and point it towards the throttle, then at the push of a button, or at the trigger of a couple thousand RPM your engine gets more air, your fuel burns more, you engine RPM jumps, and your car is cleared for take off. By the way, the trigger at a couple thousand RPM I speak of is called a “window switch.” Also it’s important to know that once you’ve installed nitrous you only have to run it when you want, there is an “arming” switch which I believe is in all set ups so you only get nitrous when you want it. Other kinds of switches are the fast and furious style buttons and the WOT (wide open throttle) switch, or a combination of any of those.
Appends:
I suppose I should talk a little more about the jets and how often a bottle costs to refill and how quickly it runs out.
To fill a bottle of N20 at your local automotive performance store costs anywhere from $3.50 to $5.00 a pound, the standard bottle size is 10lbs but ranges from 10oz. to 20lbs so $35-$50 a bottle to fill for your standard car kit. How long the bottle lasts is based around your jet size and running time, or at least the estimated horsepower produced by your jet size. If you run a 50 shot, which is ~50HP (I’ve seen 50 shots make over 60HP with the right bottle pressure) and a jet size of 35 if you're interested you will use 0.4lbs of nitrous every 10 seconds, so a little over 4 solid minutes on the bottle, by the way, your engine will die if you're on the bottle for 4 minutes straight since you'll be bouncing off the rev limiter for about 3.5 minutes NX's website gives the formula 0.8 lbs N2O X 10 seconds = 100 horsepower if you want to apply that to what you think you’re going to run.
Jet Sizes:
I honestly have no idea what the jet size number means, other than the fact that it’s a scale of the size of the hole in the jet. Using my calculator a fairly close relation of jet size to horsepower is the formula .0217j + 1.469j - 18.657 = P where 'j' is the jet size and 'P' is the estimated horsepower, this estimation is at a bottle pressure of 1050PSI. Since I don't expect any of you to use that formula which is 99.5% accurate here are some examples:
Jet Size:Estimated Horsepower@1050psi
14:10
20:22.5
26:30
35:52.5
46:95
62:170
09-12-2003, 06:58 PM
#3
Happy CL-S Pilot
Just for the fun of it... I want to run my CLS with 75 shots at the drag strip, I just want to feel the difference between 14.6s and 13.5s in the 1/4 mile!
09-12-2003, 07:17 PM
#4
teh Senior Instigator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Huntington Beach, CA -> Ashburn, VA -> Raleigh, NC -> Walnut Creek, CA
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330 Posts
Originally posted by Nashua_Night_Hawk
Just for the fun of it... I want to run my CLS with 75 shots at the drag strip, I just want to feel the difference between 14.6s and 13.5s in the 1/4 mile!
Just for the fun of it... I want to run my CLS with 75 shots at the drag strip, I just want to feel the difference between 14.6s and 13.5s in the 1/4 mile!
okay, don't talk about it till you do it
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09-13-2003, 03:25 PM
#8
GEEZER
Originally posted by liquid_x
good read
good read
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