Shawn S

Like others here, I am somewhat paranoid of vapor-locking my engine if I accidentally ingest water during a storm or poor road drainage situation.
Up until now the only option seemed to be the AEM valve.
Some will argue that a bypass valve ISN’T necessary at all, but please take that argument elsewhere.

I’m really not a big fan of the construction of the plastic AEM valve.
Mine has seen about 30,000 miles of use total on both my 2001 and 2003 CL’s.
I’m looking for something better.

I have to give EricL credit for finding this company. RTEC
They make an alternative that looks like a much more robust design.

I sent them an E-Mail with some questions and I got a response back today.
Please review this and offer your opinion on this setup for our cars.
And if anyone knows of a vendor who sells these please share.

Shawn S



MY LETTER *******************************************

RTEC,

I currently have a custom 3” Cold Air Intake on my 2003 Acura CL Type- S.
It has an inline AEM bypass valve for protection from vapor lock in a high-water condition.
I am concerned with the shoddy construction of this valve and am looking to replace it.
I read about your (IAF) Inline Filter.
Does this device function like a bypass valve or is it just an inline filter?
My concern is that I would be drawing in HOT under hood air all the time if there weren’t any kind of baffle or flapper valve to prevent this like the AEM has.
Please provide some info on this for me to aid in my purchase.

Thank You,
Shawn S


THEIR RESPONSE **************************************

Hi Shawn,

First of all I would like to say thank you for inquiring about RTEC and our product lines.
You are correct, AEM's by pass valve is made of plastic and is not very durable.
Although the AEM's valve does function in some cases where minimal air/moisture is drawn into the intake system, but for the most part the valve can't respond quick enough to prevent water from reaching the engine.
By the time your filter gets wet you can bet so is your engine. Additionally, the AEM's valve is never truly closed. The valve mechanism makes it impossible to be in a true closed position. You can test this yourself. Get up close to the valve when your engine is running and you can hear leakage.
For all the reasons above, RTEC have come up with the world's first inline air filter. The concept is to draw in warm air to serve as an insulator cushioning the colder air coming in. On a normal intake system, heat transfer is conducted thru the piping and in turn immediately raising the temperature of the colder air coming in from the filter. In short RTEC's patent pending Inline Air Filter provides an invisible jacket to keep the colder air cold as it enters the engine. RTEC have DYNO the Inline Air Filter and found an increase of up to 10 HP depending on intake system and car setup. I hope I have answered some of your questions. Please feel free to tell your friends about us and as always, all inquiries are welcome. One last thing, can you tell us where you read about our Inline Filter? This is for marketing purposes only.

Thank you,
Bryan

mc222

Who wants to be the guinea pig?

Scrib

How much?

Scrib

Oh and...

Their response says nothing about it functioning the same as the AEM product, in terms of preventing a hydro-lock. I'm assuming it does serve as a bypass as well as keeping the air cool as it makes its way into the motor???

Shawn S

I think someone said 50-60 dollars before.
I can’t find the thread because SEARCH isn’t working correctly right now.

I’m hoping this thread will jog someone’s memory.

Shawn S

danny25

I will, if someone wants to sponsor the test.

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

Somebody send them the link to the SCC article where they tested the AEM bypass valve on that NSX. Remember, they put the end of the intake into a bucket of water and it worked.

Ask them if they have ever done this and posted their results.

Scrib

Guinea pig for what?? See if the value protects you from a hydrolock???

No thanks!!!

Slimey

This was my thought when EricL originally posted the link. I'm not sure how this thing would act as a bypass if the filter was under water. In the description, it seems like it's designed to open to air from the engine bay at WOT (?). Maybe I need more of a schematic to understand it's function.

If it acts like an inline filter does it restrict air flow?

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

Then what's the point of having it? I'd go with nothing than having that thing.

Shawn S

The designation of “Inline Filter” is in NAME only.
As you can see by the photo above it’s open in the middle like the AEM design.
There shouldn’t be any air restriction except for the slightly different contour of the sidewall where the valve is.

As for their “testing methods” I will inquire in another E-Mail tonight.
I wasn’t really expecting such a quick response.

Shawn S

Slimey

I was referring to this quote from the product advertisement:
To me this means that it 1) suck in air from somewhere else when you step on the gas and 2) it returns to 'normal' CAI function after.

Where is it getting this 'large quantity of air'? I would guess, from the engine bay.

As said, I think I need to see a schematic of the design and see what opens at what pressures. As they described it (or at least how I interpret it), it sounds like it's designed to bypass the CAI during WOT, which, I agree, would be contrary to typical CAI function.

Nothing is stated about prevention of hydrolock.

I guess that I'm being a devil's advocate, but the ad and the email remind me of those resistor sales on eBay. Of course it would be nice if there was a dyno. You could also test for hydrolock prevention without damaging an engine. Just hook the throttle end into a suction machine with a bottle buffer (no biggie) and turn on. Dip other end in bucket and see what happens...does air or water make into the bottle?

Shawn S

If it comes down to it I could probably “test” the thing with my Shop Vac.
I’ve got one of those 30-Gallon industrial size monsters and that thing probably “sucks” more air then my engine ever could.
And if it fails, it's designed for ingesting water better then my Acura is.

Shawn S

soopa

this is not a bypass valve.

it will not eject water.


the aem design uses the foam to soak up any water. and has rubber seals


this design does not SEAL.

Slimey

From their email:
Huh? The warm air 'insulates' the cold air and keeps it cold. How? Only if this was pumping away the warm air, as a refrigerator does (simplistically). Is warm air better at insulating then the metal pipe?

It still doesn't make sense to me. I do like the metal design though. Looks more durable then AEM plastic.

The cold side's cold and the hot side's hot. Sounds like the failed McDLT.

Scrib

Shawn S

Soopa,

The AEM doesn’t “eject” or “soak up” water either.

All it is supposed to do is open up and allow the engine to breathe through the foam filter for a few seconds if the cone filter is under water.

In theory anyway.

Shawn S

Slimey

Yes. Has anyone done this with the AEM?

Shawn, keep posting. I love staring at your avatar.

Scrib

Shawn, more power to ya if you can rig something up with your shopvac. I wonder if those things would be able to pull water through a 3" pipe though...

Shawn S

Slimey

Yessssssss.

Jens H.

Aem demonstrated their valve by making a custom intake that allowed the open end to be submerged in a huge fishtank.The test car (An NSX) was run up at full throttle on a dyno and the end of the intake was shoved in a huge fish tank full of water.The engine did not ingest any water nor suffer any other damage.
This new style inline filter defeats the true purpose of a cold air intake by allowing warm underhood air to enter the intake stream.The AEM if installed correctly is a durable piece of equipment though i wish they did make it out of metal to accomodate the less than perfect install.Jens

Shawn S

Yes, I remember that test on the NSX. That guy had BALLS doing that to his car.
Or maybe it wasn’t his.

Does anyone still have the link for that ???

Shawn S

I found it......

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0104scc_tested/

edgalang

Whoa! First off, if installed properly, the AEM bypass is never even suppose to get touched by water. The foam is not to "soak" up water, but instead is used to "filter" out dirty air that it lets in.

My problem with the bypass is NOT with the idea of preventing a hydrolock, but with the construction. The valves open up soo easily that you are constantly using that POS foam filter. If the valves were closed most of the time, and never open up until they are needed then it would be ok (since at least you would be getting clean air that comes from the main K&N filter head)...but the fact is that you don't...and unless you properly wash and re-oil that AEM foam filter once in a while, chances are you are letting in a ton of dirt in your engine.

Too bad Road Rage is not around to help explain...but the bottom line is that although you may have made yourself feel better by thinking you are protecting yourself from a potential hydrolock, you in turn let more dirt in the engine than you are supposed to. Just like the K&N, for foam filters to work, they must be properly oiled and maintained. The sad part is...when was the last time we've ever seen anyone post about cleaning and reoiling their AEM foam filter? :shakehd:

It's basically a trade off...protection from a potential hydrolock VS a cleaner engine in the long run. I plan to keep my car for a VERY long time...so for me...proper filtration is very important.

EricL

The AEM does NOT eject water.
The RTEC does NOT eject water.

The very action of having an alternate filter (or filtered inlet air source) will act as a air bypass filter. If you look at both designs, the AEM is a virtual copy of the RTEC with the exception of the "flapper" valves. Those flapper valves need to work with foam on either side.

No, it doesn't. The foam is on the outside to prevent "dirt" and other particulate matter from getting into the system when flappers open (which is most of the time).

THE AEM DESIGN DOES NOT SEAL either! When it is being driven at part throttle, it sucks in tons of air.

If you have a AEM CAI and drive through high water and completely bury the filter in water, you will suck water up into the engine (even at idle).

A small alternative filter that is designed as follows (AEM or RTEC)

Will create LESS pressure in the area of the inverted Vs (see AEM or RTEC picture. It will also provide an alternative path for air to enter the engine if there is a blockage or if the main filter element is filled with water.

The picture shown is the opposite of a venturi.

Simply having water enter the engine is not a problem. The problem is so much water coming in, that it fills the cylinder with so much water that the piston tries to compress the water and break one or more engine parts.

soopa

ok im a dumb ass. sue me.


all i know is that my bypass foam gets wet.

mattg

are they saying this thing could offer hp gains (up to 10 hp) over a non-cut cai

mattg

too slow, i was :o

EricL

I hate to inform you of the bad news, but the AEM pulls in TONS of hot engine air during WOT operation.

I did some tests, and the flappers on the AEM open up with minimal pressure.

You are making an assumption that the AEM's flappers DO NOT let in hot air during operation. I'm telling you they do.

The "dirty little secret" is: If you want to avoid pulling in hot engine air, you need to put a 3" chunk of rubber hose in place of the AEM bypass valve. I talked to them on the phone and they admitted that the valve lets in hot air and that it would result in the loss of a HP to heat ingestion and other issues.

If you get a chance, stick the AEM bypass filter up to your mouth and see how easy the flappers open. There is only a tiny amount of thin plastic acting to hold the flappers open. The fit is so poor that air can be forced OUT of the valve with a light bit of air pressure.

To give you an idea of just how easy the unit will let air in: If you put the unit at the end of a snorkel, and closed off one end, it would happily allow enough air into a small submarine (think snorkel) for 3- to 5-people.

I have no doubt that the AEM will prevent engine damage as shown in the NSX demo. However, AEM has never shown or demonstrated the HP loss and warm air ingestion that occurs when it is installed according to their instructions.

EricL

The reason the foam gets wet is from the "frothing" water heading up the pipe. That water wets the foam.

Even in the NSX experiment, there is water frothing and it is getting into the engine. You don't see a water trap setup to see if any water is caught in that experiment. It only shows that the entire column of water is NOT pulled into the engine.

I hope most people would realize that there is no problem with having water in certain quantities enter the engine. I put on more than a few water injection systems that shot water at medium throttle openings and the water stream looked like a "Super Soaker" (a nice high-pressure stream of water heading into the engine.

When I first received my AEM bypass valve I was expecting the equivalent of some kind of "super valve" that would require a nice tug of air to get the flaps to open. I was rather surprised to see how leaky there were. They were so leaky and opened so easily, that I wondered why they didn't just build a device that looked like the RTEC device.

Look, just buy what you want...

IMO, I don't want to install the AEM and I don't see anyone willing to pay $80 for a bypass valve that can be switched on and off with a slide lever. End of story.

Look at the exploded picture of the RTEC and then look at the AEM -- they are more similar than different.

Shawn S

B-B-B-BUMP

azn5ucka86

how much does this rtec sell for? does it sell yet?

Scrib

^BUMP^

Anyone bought one of these things yet???

moomaster_99

I have a Cold Air Box....no hydrolock or loss of power from that..

peiqinglong

And once CT releases their Ice Box...I bet some of us will have somethign that won't hydrolock or loss of power either

Nashua_Night_Hawk

Ok... Hear this ...Injen is making a better By-pass Valve I saw it in Magazine... For sure it was demo at SEMA 2002..

Someone email Injen for more info....

Shawn S

I was REAL close to buying one of the RTEC ones, but I just don’t like the idea that it’s open ALL THE TIME.
I know the AEM flaps are open often too, but at least that design attempts to shield the intake from the HOT under hood air.

Shawn S

EricL

AT WOT, I would bet that both device suck in the same amount of hot air.

AT WOT, I doubt that there is any difference in lost HP due to heat "mixing."