Acura considers AWD, HYBRID, S/Cs, Turbos
10-06-2003, 10:11 AM
#1
Cost Drivers!!!!
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Acura considers AWD, HYBRID, S/Cs, Turbos
SEATTLE -- Tom Elliott is counting on the new Acura TL to help bring the division out of a sales slump.
Of the six largest luxury marques in this country, Acura was the only one to suffer a sales decline through the first nine months of the year. The TL, which goes on sale today, Oct. 6, can help.
Elliott, who is executive vice president of auto operations for American Honda Motor Co. Inc., predicts that the TL will help Acura set a sales record this year of 180,000 units. That would be an achievement. Acura's sales dropped 2.9 percent in 2002 and were down 2.2 percent through Sept. 30 of this year.
Some critics say Acura will never be a true luxury marque until it offers upscale rear-wheel-drive vehicles and V-8 engines. The TL runs counter to this theory - it's a front-wheel-drive car powered by a V-6 engine.
Critics argue that it will compete against vehicles such as the Nissan Maxima and Toyota Camry, rather than, say, the Lexus ES 300.
But Elliott says the market appeal of a V-8 is overblown. "I wouldn't say we won't do a V-8," he says. "It is one of the possibilities." But he admits that hybrids are the most likely route.
Elliott says Acura will decide how to increase power on each product in the next six months. "We're really close to making a decision on a hybrid," he says. Such a vehicle could be powered by a 300-hp engine in the front plus a 100-hp electric motor in back.
He also says the company is considering all-wheel drive, superchargers and turbochargers, but not rwd. But critics say a V-8 is essential.
Consider the slow-selling RL sedan, Acura's $50,000 flagship. RL sales were 7,557 through the end of September, down 27.8 percent from the same period in 2002.
The vehicle's 225-hp V-6 engine does not impress consumers, says Jim Wangers, president of Automotive Marketing Consultants Inc. in Vista, Calif.
"It's not so much the power but the image," Wangers says. "The price of entry in the luxury segment is a V-8, not a hybrid or a V-6. Hybrids are not accepted mainstream cars yet."
Says Daniel Gorrell, vice president for automotive of Strategic Vision in Tustin, Calif. "If they're going to be in competition with Mercedes and BMW, they need a flagship, and RL is not that. I don't see them being a serious luxury top-rung contender."
Undeterred by critics, Elliott is gradually moving Acura's product mix upscale. For example, the company is reducing production of its entry-level RSX, which debuted in 2001.
"The RSX is for young people, but we will limit the sales because we want to bring the brand up," Elliott says. "What we will do next is fix the RL. We want it to go upscale. It needs more power, more style. It will be totally redone, and part of that will be more power."
For the moment, Acura dealers are defending the company's product lineup. "There's no question that the TL is upscale and doesn't compete against Hondas," says Jerry Britain, general manager of Downey Acura in Downey, Calif.
Britain also doesn't think V-8s are necessary, saying that the Acura V-6s are reliable, reasonably priced and handle well.
"The other luxury brands are dramatically more expensive, and they don't really have more creature comforts," he says. "The only problem I have is that I don't have enough vehicles."
Of the six largest luxury marques in this country, Acura was the only one to suffer a sales decline through the first nine months of the year. The TL, which goes on sale today, Oct. 6, can help.
Elliott, who is executive vice president of auto operations for American Honda Motor Co. Inc., predicts that the TL will help Acura set a sales record this year of 180,000 units. That would be an achievement. Acura's sales dropped 2.9 percent in 2002 and were down 2.2 percent through Sept. 30 of this year.
Some critics say Acura will never be a true luxury marque until it offers upscale rear-wheel-drive vehicles and V-8 engines. The TL runs counter to this theory - it's a front-wheel-drive car powered by a V-6 engine.
Critics argue that it will compete against vehicles such as the Nissan Maxima and Toyota Camry, rather than, say, the Lexus ES 300.
But Elliott says the market appeal of a V-8 is overblown. "I wouldn't say we won't do a V-8," he says. "It is one of the possibilities." But he admits that hybrids are the most likely route.
Elliott says Acura will decide how to increase power on each product in the next six months. "We're really close to making a decision on a hybrid," he says. Such a vehicle could be powered by a 300-hp engine in the front plus a 100-hp electric motor in back.
He also says the company is considering all-wheel drive, superchargers and turbochargers, but not rwd. But critics say a V-8 is essential.
Consider the slow-selling RL sedan, Acura's $50,000 flagship. RL sales were 7,557 through the end of September, down 27.8 percent from the same period in 2002.
The vehicle's 225-hp V-6 engine does not impress consumers, says Jim Wangers, president of Automotive Marketing Consultants Inc. in Vista, Calif.
"It's not so much the power but the image," Wangers says. "The price of entry in the luxury segment is a V-8, not a hybrid or a V-6. Hybrids are not accepted mainstream cars yet."
Says Daniel Gorrell, vice president for automotive of Strategic Vision in Tustin, Calif. "If they're going to be in competition with Mercedes and BMW, they need a flagship, and RL is not that. I don't see them being a serious luxury top-rung contender."
Undeterred by critics, Elliott is gradually moving Acura's product mix upscale. For example, the company is reducing production of its entry-level RSX, which debuted in 2001.
"The RSX is for young people, but we will limit the sales because we want to bring the brand up," Elliott says. "What we will do next is fix the RL. We want it to go upscale. It needs more power, more style. It will be totally redone, and part of that will be more power."
For the moment, Acura dealers are defending the company's product lineup. "There's no question that the TL is upscale and doesn't compete against Hondas," says Jerry Britain, general manager of Downey Acura in Downey, Calif.
Britain also doesn't think V-8s are necessary, saying that the Acura V-6s are reliable, reasonably priced and handle well.
"The other luxury brands are dramatically more expensive, and they don't really have more creature comforts," he says. "The only problem I have is that I don't have enough vehicles."
10-06-2003, 10:31 AM
#3
Cost Drivers!!!!
Thread Starter
some nice tid bits in that article......
we don't need no stinkin RWD....gimmie AWD
-RSX production will be reduced. I forsee the reintroduction of the Honda prelude/crx.
we don't need no stinkin RWD....gimmie AWD
-RSX production will be reduced. I forsee the reintroduction of the Honda prelude/crx.
10-06-2003, 10:45 AM
#5
Cost Drivers!!!!
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Originally posted by Black CL-S 4-Life
Great article. Doubt we'll ever see a turbo or SC in a Acura.
Great article. Doubt we'll ever see a turbo or SC in a Acura.
10-06-2003, 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by Zapata
could be possible if they can find away for those to be electric powered and work only when needed.....sorta like the variable turbo they had designs earlier.
could be possible if they can find away for those to be electric powered and work only when needed.....sorta like the variable turbo they had designs earlier.
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10-06-2003, 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by Zapata
-RSX production will be reduced. I forsee the reintroduction of the Honda prelude/crx.
-RSX production will be reduced. I forsee the reintroduction of the Honda prelude/crx.
10-06-2003, 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by Black CL-S 4-Life
I've always thought the RSX should have been a Honda. Glad to see Acura is phasing it out slowly.
I've always thought the RSX should have been a Honda. Glad to see Acura is phasing it out slowly.
i didn't read anywhere they are phasing it out, only that they are reducing production. those are different.
if they were to phase it out completely, why slowly remove it? why not simply stop production to save money, and put all the money towards developing the 2005 awd clx which would be a replacement for the cl and compete with an a4. i'm just hypothetically speaking here of course.
10-06-2003, 11:03 AM
#13
Cost Drivers!!!!
Thread Starter
Originally posted by gavriil
Reducing production of the RSX is a great move.
Reducing production of the RSX is a great move.
hey saw your post in news but thought since this hit close to home etc.,
10-06-2003, 12:30 PM
#16
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by slyraskal
i agree on this notion, honda needs a mid priced sports car to bring the gap between the civic and the s2000. bad choice of removing the prelude.
i agree on this notion, honda needs a mid priced sports car to bring the gap between the civic and the s2000. bad choice of removing the prelude.
- Move the RSX to the Honda Showroom and rename it the Integra (how's that for a novel name?)-dump that FP package
- Give that TL either RWD or AWD; develop a 300hp variant
- Make the same motor avail for the MDX
- Dump the Civic Si; its mediocre @ best and with the ITR in the Honda Showroom, there's no need for the Si.
- Give up, give in and give that RL RWD, a V8 and 300hp+; if Honda makes a V8, people WILL buy it.
- Fire Tom Elliott; if Honda gets anymore conservative they'll become Toyota.
- As far as the NSX goes; its truly ageless (a la Porsche 911)--give it a K32A with iVTEC and leave the rest of it alone.
Peace.
10-06-2003, 12:37 PM
#17
Cost Drivers!!!!
Thread Starter
agree with everything until you start talkin v8 and RWD.
Originally posted by F23A4
They do!! It's called the Honda Integra Type R!! For Honda, it should be simple:
- Move the RSX to the Honda Showroom and rename it the Integra (how's that for a novel name?)-dump that FP package
- Give that TL either RWD or AWD; develop a 300hp variant
- Make the same motor avail for the MDX
- Dump the Civic Si; its mediocre @ best and with the ITR in the Honda Showroom, there's no need for the Si.
- Give up, give in and give that RL RWD, a V8 and 300hp+; if Honda makes a V8, people WILL buy it.
- Fire Tom Elliott; if Honda gets anymore conservative they'll become Toyota.
- As far as the NSX goes; its truly ageless (a la Porsche 911)--give it a K32A with iVTEC and leave the rest of it alone.
Peace.
They do!! It's called the Honda Integra Type R!! For Honda, it should be simple:
- Move the RSX to the Honda Showroom and rename it the Integra (how's that for a novel name?)-dump that FP package
- Give that TL either RWD or AWD; develop a 300hp variant
- Make the same motor avail for the MDX
- Dump the Civic Si; its mediocre @ best and with the ITR in the Honda Showroom, there's no need for the Si.
- Give up, give in and give that RL RWD, a V8 and 300hp+; if Honda makes a V8, people WILL buy it.
- Fire Tom Elliott; if Honda gets anymore conservative they'll become Toyota.
- As far as the NSX goes; its truly ageless (a la Porsche 911)--give it a K32A with iVTEC and leave the rest of it alone.
Peace.
10-06-2003, 12:38 PM
#18
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its funny how if you go to IS300.net there is a thread about this SAME article...but the thread name is "Acura sales slip......AGAIN"
and the every post is bashing acura for using FWD, charging 29k for a 4banger car (TSX) and 50k for a V6 (RL), for not having any balls to do RWD, for having no driving excitement factor, etc.
over here, we put a positive spin on this article, elsewhere, well..you see what i mean
and the every post is bashing acura for using FWD, charging 29k for a 4banger car (TSX) and 50k for a V6 (RL), for not having any balls to do RWD, for having no driving excitement factor, etc.
over here, we put a positive spin on this article, elsewhere, well..you see what i mean
10-06-2003, 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by Black CL-S 4-Life
Great article. Doubt we'll ever see a turbo or SC in a Acura.
Great article. Doubt we'll ever see a turbo or SC in a Acura.
10-06-2003, 01:14 PM
#20
Full-Time IDIoT---DoH!!!
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i think honda will do turbo...when? beats me.....BUT honda does have a few turbocharged vehicles both auto and marine, and have been toying w/turbos since the early 80s...trust me....i think honda wants to make sure the turbo is done the rite way from the getgo...but i'm afraid they may think that adding a turbo will take away their rep of being a great engine manufacturer 
yummy....a turbo awd tsx
p.s. ok i'm dreaming abt the tsx but still....i wish honda did some rallying...if honda could blow up in rallying w/perhaps a turbo awd tsx like mitsu and subaru has w/their cars, then honda will regain their position as an enthusiast manufacturer...something i'm afarid 2 say they have slipped off recently i.e. new si
macphaerson strut civic etc, no prelude, no crx etc.
yummy....a turbo awd tsx
p.s. ok i'm dreaming abt the tsx but still....i wish honda did some rallying...if honda could blow up in rallying w/perhaps a turbo awd tsx like mitsu and subaru has w/their cars, then honda will regain their position as an enthusiast manufacturer...something i'm afarid 2 say they have slipped off recently i.e. new si
macphaerson strut civic etc, no prelude, no crx etc.
10-06-2003, 01:18 PM
#21
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Originally posted by ModAddict
Honda introduced an intercooled, "bullet proof", 4 cylinder, Turbocharged personal watercraft in the fall of 2002. They do know how to do it right,...... never say never.
Honda introduced an intercooled, "bullet proof", 4 cylinder, Turbocharged personal watercraft in the fall of 2002. They do know how to do it right,...... never say never.
10-06-2003, 01:52 PM
#22
still a Masshole
Originally posted by slyraskal
if they were to phase it out completely, why slowly remove it? why not simply stop production to save money, and put all the money towards developing the 2005 awd clx which would be a replacement for the cl and compete with an a4. i'm just hypothetically speaking here of course.
if they were to phase it out completely, why slowly remove it? why not simply stop production to save money, and put all the money towards developing the 2005 awd clx which would be a replacement for the cl and compete with an a4. i'm just hypothetically speaking here of course.
10-06-2003, 02:21 PM
#23
Cajun Gumbo Man
I did it already and got the MDX AWD "CL on Steroids" ! 260 hp, nice low end tourqe and comfortable as hell ! I do miss driving the CLS, but this MDX is the best vehicle they make at the moment. After having the CL and going threw it all, the MDX has all the missing and improved stuff. That is all I can say. All you guys should go test drive one. My only complaint is, every time I get in the "X", it feels like I'm in the CL Type S, but on Steroids..........:P :P :P
10-06-2003, 05:45 PM
#25
Happy CL-S Pilot
go check the new Nissan Engine on the Titan/Pathfinder Armada:
Really Impressive: 305 HP and 379 lbft and 90% of the torque is available at less then 2500 rpms. It is DOHC 5.6L V8 and still no use for (VTEC Tech) VTCS and no Variable or dual stage Intake! The engine can be re-tuned to make 345-375 HP easy!!..
The Titan hauls some serious ass....It moves, in a drag race, I witnessed the Titan beating the Dodge QuadCab with 5.7L Hemi engine. Both were towing a FORD car on flat trailer!!!
Really Impressive: 305 HP and 379 lbft and 90% of the torque is available at less then 2500 rpms. It is DOHC 5.6L V8 and still no use for (VTEC Tech) VTCS and no Variable or dual stage Intake! The engine can be re-tuned to make 345-375 HP easy!!..
The Titan hauls some serious ass....It moves, in a drag race, I witnessed the Titan beating the Dodge QuadCab with 5.7L Hemi engine. Both were towing a FORD car on flat trailer!!!
10-06-2003, 09:50 PM
#27
Subie Dubie
Originally posted by Fabvsix
I did it already and got the MDX AWD "CL on Steroids" ! 260 hp, nice low end tourqe and comfortable as hell ! I do miss driving the CLS, but this MDX is the best vehicle they make at the moment. After having the CL and going threw it all, the MDX has all the missing and improved stuff. That is all I can say. All you guys should go test drive one. My only complaint is, every time I get in the "X", it feels like I'm in the CL Type S, but on Steroids..........:P :P :P
I did it already and got the MDX AWD "CL on Steroids" ! 260 hp, nice low end tourqe and comfortable as hell ! I do miss driving the CLS, but this MDX is the best vehicle they make at the moment. After having the CL and going threw it all, the MDX has all the missing and improved stuff. That is all I can say. All you guys should go test drive one. My only complaint is, every time I get in the "X", it feels like I'm in the CL Type S, but on Steroids..........:P :P :P
10-07-2003, 04:37 AM
#28
Cajun Gumbo Man
Hey ! Hell NO, I still have my CLS. Its PAID for, its MINE and it sits in the garage resting these days, so I putt around in the X ! :P
I now have a little over 2000 miles on the X, so yeah I don't drive that much, but that may change......
I now have a little over 2000 miles on the X, so yeah I don't drive that much, but that may change......
10-07-2003, 05:34 AM
#30
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by SiGGy
<yawn>
<yawn>
Nothing in that press release that really excites me. Sounds like a man who's trying to keep his job to me
Originally posted by Shawn S
See the LAST line of my signature !!!
See the LAST line of my signature !!!
There are alot of other choices out there (w/ RWD, etc), so if Acura doesn't want to continue to post loses in sales (when the competition is seeing increases in sales), they had better get their shit together quickly.
I love my CLS, but it may be my last Acura. If I had to buy a car today, Acura doesn't make anything that appeals to me (new TL doesn't do it). I'd be buying from the competition (330, G35, etc). Hopefully that'll change and Acura will come out with another coupe, but who knows when that'll be.
Acuras unwillingness to even think about a V8 and rwd might be their downfall. Hybrids ain't gonna do it. At least for buyers like me.
10-07-2003, 07:14 AM
#33
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by unsure
anyone know if the infinit g35C will come in awd anytime soon?
anyone know if the infinit g35C will come in awd anytime soon?
http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...hlight=g35+awd
Might want to search one of the "G" forums.
EDIT: oops. saw that you posted in that thread, so you already knew that
10-07-2003, 07:20 AM
#34
Senior Moderator
Stay tuned @ www.freshalloy.com. Quasi-official first word may appear here.
10-07-2003, 08:57 AM
#35
Cost Drivers!!!!
Thread Starter
AWD in honda/acura is a given. You'll see the 400hp Legend. NSX will be reintroduced. Accord get AWD by '05 and i would think the TL will get it in '04. If that doesn't excite you 
I suggest you place to fingers on your neck and feel for a pulse
I suggest you place to fingers on your neck and feel for a pulse
10-07-2003, 09:30 AM
#37
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by Zapata
Accord get AWD by '05 and i would think the TL will get it in '04.
Accord get AWD by '05 and i would think the TL will get it in '04.
Oh, you meant that the annoucement would come out in 04, ok. <yawn>
Zapata, you're such a Acura Cheerleader, I wonder if you're on the payroll
I'm sure AWD will happen w/ H/A, it's just that they've had the technology for so long and haven't used it on anything but SUVs.
10-07-2003, 09:33 AM
#38
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AWD in honda/acura is a given. You'll see the 400hp Legend. NSX will be reintroduced. Accord get AWD by '05 and i would think the TL will get it in '04. If that doesn't excite you
I suggest you place to fingers on your neck and feel for a pulse
I suggest you place to fingers on your neck and feel for a pulse
2004 AWD TL? Not gonna happen. 2005 maybe
NSX - I've been reading the new NSX will basically be the same car just with new styling. Yawn.
Hybrid Legend - Very interesting concept but I still would prefer a nice powerful V8.
10-07-2003, 10:07 AM
#39
Cost Drivers!!!!
Thread Starter
Originally posted by greenmonster
04 TL's are out. No AWD. So where's the excitement ??
Oh, you meant that the annoucement would come out in 04, ok. <yawn>
04 TL's are out. No AWD. So where's the excitement ??
Oh, you meant that the annoucement would come out in 04, ok. <yawn>
Whatever.... It'll be out. Current TL may not excite you but it seems like it's a home run
10-07-2003, 10:10 AM
#40
Cost Drivers!!!!
Thread Starter
Originally posted by greenmonster
04 TL's are out. No AWD. So where's the excitement ??
Oh, you meant that the annoucement would come out in 04, ok. <yawn>
Zapata, you're such a Acura Cheerleader, I wonder if you're on the payroll
I'm sure AWD will happen w/ H/A, it's just that they've had the technology for so long and haven't used it on anything but SUVs.
04 TL's are out. No AWD. So where's the excitement ??
Oh, you meant that the annoucement would come out in 04, ok. <yawn>
Zapata, you're such a Acura Cheerleader, I wonder if you're on the payroll
I'm sure AWD will happen w/ H/A, it's just that they've had the technology for so long and haven't used it on anything but SUVs.
Nah just a car enthusiast
I like honda/acura because of the products....could just easily be nissan or somebody else for that matter.The new TL is exciting. It marks the second step of Acura move towards an upscale market. They haven't disappointed thus far, a la TSX, TL. Whether you like those models or not is one thing but they are a departure from the previous generation of Acura vehicles.