3.5L Dyno Results and Problems
09-18-2007, 02:32 AM
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3.5L Dyno Results and Problems
180 WHP...
So we cannot figure out why it's running so poorly. We know my car should be about 240 (same exact setup as typeR). My fuel pressure dropped slowly over the past 2 years from 35-45WOT to 28-35WOT since I got the 3.5L swap. Shop said the car is running lean b/c the plugs are looking burnt but should not have anything to do with the fuel pressure b/c they pinched the vacume line and got it up to 80 psi and it was still performing poorly.
A while ago, my car clocked 14.2 on the 1/4, and that was with really low oil ( which gave me no VTEC). On the street, my car has been running fine but has recently loss a lot of power at Mid to WOT. While the car was on the dyno, all warning lights turned on. The shop turned the car off, then turned it back on thinking it would reset the lights, and all the lights stayed on. The only time the warning lights turned off is when I took it off the lot, and drove it for a mile or so.
After more and more dyno'ing the cars performance got worse and worse.
Anybody have any ideas as to what could be going on? IMRC is working fine, just changed oil, air filter is relatively clean, compression checked out fine (maxed out their gauge on all cylinders at 250 psi), no fuel leaks, no vacume leaks.
As for the feel of the car, I would say at WOT, it feels like the e-brake is on or putting your car into 4th gear when going up a hill on a freeway. Low RPMs feel decent, not as powerful as before, but definitely not as noticable as the poor performance at WOT.
(stroked with - 05' RL pistons 0.25OB, odyssey crankshaft)
So we cannot figure out why it's running so poorly. We know my car should be about 240 (same exact setup as typeR). My fuel pressure dropped slowly over the past 2 years from 35-45WOT to 28-35WOT since I got the 3.5L swap. Shop said the car is running lean b/c the plugs are looking burnt but should not have anything to do with the fuel pressure b/c they pinched the vacume line and got it up to 80 psi and it was still performing poorly.
A while ago, my car clocked 14.2 on the 1/4, and that was with really low oil ( which gave me no VTEC). On the street, my car has been running fine but has recently loss a lot of power at Mid to WOT. While the car was on the dyno, all warning lights turned on. The shop turned the car off, then turned it back on thinking it would reset the lights, and all the lights stayed on. The only time the warning lights turned off is when I took it off the lot, and drove it for a mile or so.
After more and more dyno'ing the cars performance got worse and worse.
Anybody have any ideas as to what could be going on? IMRC is working fine, just changed oil, air filter is relatively clean, compression checked out fine (maxed out their gauge on all cylinders at 250 psi), no fuel leaks, no vacume leaks.
As for the feel of the car, I would say at WOT, it feels like the e-brake is on or putting your car into 4th gear when going up a hill on a freeway. Low RPMs feel decent, not as powerful as before, but definitely not as noticable as the poor performance at WOT.
(stroked with - 05' RL pistons 0.25OB, odyssey crankshaft)
09-18-2007, 03:11 AM
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WOW, just read the entire NINE page thread from "New Image" and found a few things to try out.
1. coil packs - unplugging at idle 1 coil at a time to try and find culprit.
2. esm voltage - test by volt meter (must be precisely set at 2.83 and 2.93)
3. damaged cat - New Image may not have one, but mine might be fried or clogged from blowing my motor with the nitrous before my 3.5L conversion, then slowly degregating there after.
Will check these items first. Any other ideas to check?
1. coil packs - unplugging at idle 1 coil at a time to try and find culprit.
2. esm voltage - test by volt meter (must be precisely set at 2.83 and 2.93)
3. damaged cat - New Image may not have one, but mine might be fried or clogged from blowing my motor with the nitrous before my 3.5L conversion, then slowly degregating there after.
Will check these items first. Any other ideas to check?
09-18-2007, 07:46 AM
#3
Senior Moderator
could be cat i lost one symptoms were perfectly normal low rpm idel and cruise dead at wot at one point couldnt even redline 1st.... second 180 is not gonna get u a 14.2 ...oh ya it's normal for the dash to light up on the dyno its the abs system and does automatically clear after a few miles of driving...
09-18-2007, 07:52 AM
#4
my dash has NEVER lit up on a dyno except for when i was misfiring..
what rods did you use?
IMO - you and i need to get something to adjust fuel more, i think the higher compression RL Pistons are running us lean. i am running lean too. can't figure it out either. coil packs, plugs, FPR, pump are all good. my only guess is weak injectors because the car SHOULD be compensating, but this is the 2nd case i have seen of mysterious lean... but if i were you, i would do a leak down / compression test on the motor. you blew that sucker and who knows if the rebuild was legit, you never did seem to get the car running right.
what rods did you use?
IMO - you and i need to get something to adjust fuel more, i think the higher compression RL Pistons are running us lean. i am running lean too. can't figure it out either. coil packs, plugs, FPR, pump are all good. my only guess is weak injectors because the car SHOULD be compensating, but this is the 2nd case i have seen of mysterious lean... but if i were you, i would do a leak down / compression test on the motor. you blew that sucker and who knows if the rebuild was legit, you never did seem to get the car running right.
09-18-2007, 02:28 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by CleanCL
my dash has NEVER lit up on a dyno except for when i was misfiring..
.
.
09-18-2007, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by typeR
could be cat i lost one symptoms were perfectly normal low rpm idel and cruise dead at wot at one point couldnt even redline 1st.... second 180 is not gonna get u a 14.2 ...oh ya it's normal for the dash to light up on the dyno its the abs system and does automatically clear after a few miles of driving...
And your symptoms do sound exactly like mine to the T. He said on one dyno run it wouldn't go past 5k rpm. And the more I drive it around, everytime I run WOT, the car gets worse and worse, probably due to the deteriorating cat.
I will start searching for cats on this forum to see what's out there.
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09-18-2007, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by typeR
has to ... as soon as the abs modulator tests itll throw the vsa and abs and i think the ! lights ...few miles after driving away theyll go off... unless you drive the car onto the dyno after the abs system tests and dont shut the car off then i guess it wouldnt...
09-18-2007, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CleanCL
my dash has NEVER lit up on a dyno except for when i was misfiring..
what rods did you use?
IMO - you and i need to get something to adjust fuel more, i think the higher compression RL Pistons are running us lean. i am running lean too. can't figure it out either. coil packs, plugs, FPR, pump are all good. my only guess is weak injectors because the car SHOULD be compensating, but this is the 2nd case i have seen of mysterious lean... but if i were you, i would do a leak down / compression test on the motor. you blew that sucker and who knows if the rebuild was legit, you never did seem to get the car running right.
what rods did you use?
IMO - you and i need to get something to adjust fuel more, i think the higher compression RL Pistons are running us lean. i am running lean too. can't figure it out either. coil packs, plugs, FPR, pump are all good. my only guess is weak injectors because the car SHOULD be compensating, but this is the 2nd case i have seen of mysterious lean... but if i were you, i would do a leak down / compression test on the motor. you blew that sucker and who knows if the rebuild was legit, you never did seem to get the car running right.
And yes I need more fuel as well, but maybe changing my cat out may work. Oh, but if I remember correctly, you have an aftermarket cat right? So that may not help with the leaning out, but may fix my HP issues.
Oh and we did check the compression and they were really high. Maxed out his gauge at 250 psi on all cylinders.
09-18-2007, 03:24 PM
#12
Originally Posted by typeR
has to ... as soon as the abs modulator tests itll throw the vsa and abs and i think the ! lights ...few miles after driving away theyll go off... unless you drive the car onto the dyno after the abs system tests and dont shut the car off then i guess it wouldnt...
...btw i am planning on going back to the stock cat and seeing what happens.
09-19-2007, 01:29 AM
#15
THE J35A2...
Originally Posted by rtatsutani
180 WHP...
So we cannot figure out why it's running so poorly. We know my car should be about 240 (same exact setup as typeR). My fuel pressure dropped slowly over the past 2 years from 35-45WOT to 28-35WOT since I got the 3.5L swap. Shop said the car is running lean b/c the plugs are looking burnt but should not have anything to do with the fuel pressure b/c they pinched the vacume line and got it up to 80 psi and it was still performing poorly.
A while ago, my car clocked 14.2 on the 1/4, and that was with really low oil ( which gave me no VTEC). On the street, my car has been running fine but has recently loss a lot of power at Mid to WOT. While the car was on the dyno, all warning lights turned on. The shop turned the car off, then turned it back on thinking it would reset the lights, and all the lights stayed on. The only time the warning lights turned off is when I took it off the lot, and drove it for a mile or so.
After more and more dyno'ing the cars performance got worse and worse.
Anybody have any ideas as to what could be going on? IMRC is working fine, just changed oil, air filter is relatively clean, compression checked out fine (maxed out their gauge on all cylinders at 250 psi), no fuel leaks, no vacume leaks.
As for the feel of the car, I would say at WOT, it feels like the e-brake is on or putting your car into 4th gear when going up a hill on a freeway. Low RPMs feel decent, not as powerful as before, but definitely not as noticable as the poor performance at WOT.
(stroked with - 05' RL pistons 0.25OB, odyssey crankshaft)
So we cannot figure out why it's running so poorly. We know my car should be about 240 (same exact setup as typeR). My fuel pressure dropped slowly over the past 2 years from 35-45WOT to 28-35WOT since I got the 3.5L swap. Shop said the car is running lean b/c the plugs are looking burnt but should not have anything to do with the fuel pressure b/c they pinched the vacume line and got it up to 80 psi and it was still performing poorly.
A while ago, my car clocked 14.2 on the 1/4, and that was with really low oil ( which gave me no VTEC). On the street, my car has been running fine but has recently loss a lot of power at Mid to WOT. While the car was on the dyno, all warning lights turned on. The shop turned the car off, then turned it back on thinking it would reset the lights, and all the lights stayed on. The only time the warning lights turned off is when I took it off the lot, and drove it for a mile or so.
After more and more dyno'ing the cars performance got worse and worse.
Anybody have any ideas as to what could be going on? IMRC is working fine, just changed oil, air filter is relatively clean, compression checked out fine (maxed out their gauge on all cylinders at 250 psi), no fuel leaks, no vacume leaks.
As for the feel of the car, I would say at WOT, it feels like the e-brake is on or putting your car into 4th gear when going up a hill on a freeway. Low RPMs feel decent, not as powerful as before, but definitely not as noticable as the poor performance at WOT.
(stroked with - 05' RL pistons 0.25OB, odyssey crankshaft)
10-03-2007, 03:14 AM
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Changed all the plugs, and all coil packs checked out fine. Plug 1 on the front left was completely fried and the other 5 were mildly burnt. So we know the car at one point was running really lean. The shop did a flow test on the cat and it had decent flow. We added the universal AEM FPR and now the car runs better at low RPMs like 0-4k. Once I get into the higher RPM range, that's when the obvious problem happens. It goes up and hits vtec then just completely bogs and spudders and stays at around 5800 RPMs. I will video tape it later and post a video. And yes typeR the oil is full, haha. Also with the unichip on mapA, B and removed resulted in the same symptoms.
Any ideas?
Any ideas?
10-05-2007, 01:12 PM
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Hmm. Neutral safety switch? As soon as my car hits vtec it starts bogging. But I'm sure it hits vtec b/c you can definitely hear it, except instead of taking off, it slows down. Clean and Steve, I know in neutral or park vtec doesn't even engage but while actually going in 2nd gear, do you think it possibly could? Clean, what other problems did you experience when you had that issue? I am experiencing no other problems so don't know if it could be the same issue.
10-05-2007, 01:38 PM
#22
neutral safety switch prevents the car from being put into gear unless the gear lock is used (hole next to the shifter). i believe it also helps prevent revving into vtec while stopped, but i don't remember off the top of my head if that's the same sensor typeR is talking about or is that's an isolated sensor.
you might have a bad vtec solenoid? pressure switch? no CELs?
when was the last time you checked your tranny fluid? the tranny solenoids are VERY picky for the auto.
you might have a bad vtec solenoid? pressure switch? no CELs?
when was the last time you checked your tranny fluid? the tranny solenoids are VERY picky for the auto.
10-05-2007, 06:19 PM
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I drove the car today and maxed it out flooring it in 2nd gear and it got stuck at 6200 RPMs. Rode it bogging for about 3 seconds, then I did have a CEL, it blinked a bunch of times then turned off as I kept driving it normally. I drove straight down to checkers to have them read the codes and they couldn't find any codes...
10-06-2007, 09:13 AM
#25
Senior Moderator
try this just for shits and giggles...un bolt the header at the cat and try to slide them away from eachother alittle...then go for a test drive
10-06-2007, 11:43 AM
#26
Sanest Florida Man
It seems to me that your VTEC isn't engaging, I know you say you hear it but I got a VAFC on my cl and I once set my VTEC engage point at like 5500rpm when it should be 3500rpm and it gave the exact same symptoms your describing. The car was fine in the low RPMS but when it was supposed to switch it didn't cause the x-over point was so high and that caused the car to just drag ass. Do you have a VAFC and if so what do you have the vtec x-over set too? If it's not that it's might be something wrong with your camshaft intended for hi rpms. Do you by chance have a dyno graph so we can analyze it? It like to see what happen to your hp graph at the point where VTEC is supposed to kick in.
10-08-2007, 09:55 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by CleanCL
your solution to everything is a fouled cat 
just breakin your balls 
just breakin your balls
10-08-2007, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by typeR
that n low oil level
Hahaha. Well, good point on the cat. I was going to install a random technology cat anyway so we'll see then. And your description does sounds more and more similar. He said that after they did more and more passes on the dyno, the numbers just got worse and worse.
Just throwing another idea out there, but any chance I have a collapsing valve spring/s at high RPMs? AEM wideband shows pig rich maxing my meter out at 10. I was thinking possibly an exhaust valve spring, collapsing under high RPMs then releasing uncombusted gas into my exhaust prematurely?
11-26-2007, 12:16 AM
#34
Originally Posted by rtatsutani
Damn, now that was below the belt. Hahaha.
Well, good point on the cat. I was going to install a random technology cat anyway so we'll see then. And your description does sounds more and more similar. He said that after they did more and more passes on the dyno, the numbers just got worse and worse.
Just throwing another idea out there, but any chance I have a collapsing valve spring/s at high RPMs? AEM wideband shows pig rich maxing my meter out at 10. I was thinking possibly an exhaust valve spring, collapsing under high RPMs then releasing uncombusted gas into my exhaust prematurely?
Hahaha. Well, good point on the cat. I was going to install a random technology cat anyway so we'll see then. And your description does sounds more and more similar. He said that after they did more and more passes on the dyno, the numbers just got worse and worse.
Just throwing another idea out there, but any chance I have a collapsing valve spring/s at high RPMs? AEM wideband shows pig rich maxing my meter out at 10. I was thinking possibly an exhaust valve spring, collapsing under high RPMs then releasing uncombusted gas into my exhaust prematurely?
11-27-2007, 04:50 AM
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Not yet. Just had it towed from the mall last weekend. My fuel pressure regulator blew a washer and was leaking gas. Got a replacement oil plug washer and have to re-tighten all the fittings now. Once I fix that I will begin trouble shooting the problem again.
01-11-2008, 01:24 PM
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Alright, the shop checked the cat from the front this time and it was melted. So that'll be the reason I've been having the slow 14.2 1/4 times, the bad top end, etc... TypeR you were right. The shop checked the cat from the back and said it looked fine the first time hence missing the melted front half of it. They said it wasn't completely clogged hence decent flow but poor top end performance.
So right now I'm gutted and it sounds perfectly fine. I would say it's still quieter than a G35 but just a tad bit louder than stock. The damn thing just stinks though, haha. No rotten eggs, no garbage smell, just straight potent exhaust.
Car feels awesome. Their dyno strap broke so they're just waiting for a new one so I'll throw it on later. I will post vids of the performance and sound later.
So right now I'm gutted and it sounds perfectly fine. I would say it's still quieter than a G35 but just a tad bit louder than stock. The damn thing just stinks though, haha. No rotten eggs, no garbage smell, just straight potent exhaust.
Car feels awesome. Their dyno strap broke so they're just waiting for a new one so I'll throw it on later. I will post vids of the performance and sound later.
01-11-2008, 07:25 PM
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no 1/4 mile here in Oahu. Unless we ride our ferry off island. Ours got closed down a while ago 
How sad is that. But yeah, dynos are coming up for sure. But videos will be up soon.
How sad is that. But yeah, dynos are coming up for sure. But videos will be up soon.