defrag

Webtoker, Your talking about st00pid right? he is a friggin beast =) Tunes and mods all types of cars. I wish I lived in Houston so i could be his friend, maybe hed let me drive his car
A friend of mine is working on building a 300+HP Civic Hatchbak, He just got the car today, a 94' Civic HB DX =p Its puttin at the most like 60HP at the wheels, How can anyone drive that? weLL its mod time plZ

-defrag

WebToker

Ya if you can get that thing to grip it will be for sure in the high 13s


------------------
Mustang Killa

so cal type s_RENAMED

damn those are good times. .

i wonder if powerbreaking will be possible with slicks. .

we'll see on friday. .

------------------
'01 cl-s blk/blk :: comptech headers, comptech springs, comptech sway bars

EricL

I think it would do much better with the 17" and sticky rubber. The car is heavy, I'm not so sure the Pilot Sports are the best "drag" radial. I'm sure the car will get down in the 13.7 times if given some "grip" and reduced wheel weights.

I wonder if the LT10 is helping or hurting.

BTW -- I don't think the car would have to run around on non-street legal rubber. Some good DOT rubber would probably make for a happy on the street and on the track car.

(just my opinions...)


------------------
Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines w/Brembos?
• Comptech headers & sways
• Silver AEM CAI
• 9 coats of Zaino magic

[This message has been edited by EricL (edited 05-03-2001).]

F=ma_RENAMED

Hey RAdams, for comparison purposes, since it was on the same day at the same track, tell us what you ran with your TL, and what mods you have.

------------------
Kenny
Slow TL

RAdams

Oh man... I was really hoping no one would ask me this.

I'm not making excuses (ok, yes I am) but I had 3/4 tank of gas and I guess it doesn't help that I'm 6'9" and 290 pounds. Plus the launch area of Moroso's track could use a LOT of help.... BUT

My best run was a 15.966 @ 87 (I'm too depressed to look at the actual MPH). I was getting 2.45 60' times.. which is bad. I guess the stock [read: crap] tires don't help much either, especially at God Knows What [read: high] PSI. My only mod is an AEM CAI... my car number is 0005... if you check the timeslips you'll see that I lined up with the 3.5 for one "race". By the time my car shifted from 1->2 the 3.5 was -- literally -- 4 car lengths ahead of me. It was pretty cool... and somehow saddening at the same time.

However, I do have some real data to share: Since there were so few cars running, I knew we'd get several runs in that night (ended up being 9 -- unheard of at this track) so I played around with different variables and found that opening your hood to let your motor cool between runs does seem to help. My car is consistently .2-.3 quicker when I use SS and shift from 2->3 right before the limiter (6600) versus leaving it in D5. (Score one for human interaction!). Also, leaving TCS on helped my 60' times dramatically. Without it the wheels spun like raped apes. I believe the 60' time with TCS off was in the neighborhood of 2.7.

Perhaps I should add "slow TL" to my sig line as well.
------------------
2000 WDP 3.2TL non-NAV
AEM CAI

[This message has been edited by RAdams (edited 05-03-2001).]

Nashua_Night_Hawk

That still is good, I could not break below 15.4 with my CLS with CAI my 60" times were a nightmare, 2.7s-2.9s. The next time I washed my car I removed literaly a 1/3" of molten rubber crap sticking under door sills and just behind the front panel. I was using my stock rims

Next time, I will run with my nittos 18" NT555.

------------------
Black, Ebony, 3.2 CL Type-S, NAV.
- 3M clear bra, by Stonguard (full front bumper, and side mirrors, and partial hood)
- Acura Spoiler, Moonroof visor
- Splash guards, Winter mats, Trunk liner
- Valentine V1 Radar Locator
- HELMS Service Manual
- PIAA 19169 road lamps
- 03/19/01: Injen Polished CAI
- 04/13/01: 235/40/18 NITTO 555 on 18x7.5, +45 offset, Koing Imagine in Silver with wheels locks

NYREP1

i thought the level 10's main reson was to prevent you from shreeding the tranny?

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2001 acura cl type-s
comming soon
2000 accord v6 sedan
1997 4runner
1992 camaro
1993 volvo 850
"THE GREATEST TRICK THE DEVIL EVER PULLED, WAS CONVINCING THE WORLD HE DIDN'T EXIST"

EricL

The level 10 just ups the stall speed, but if you are already spinning the tires like crazy, what's the point.

The 3.5L makes plenty of low end torque. If the tires were "glued" to the strip and the engine was "bogging" down from not getting enough RPMs off-the-line, then sure, increase the stall speed. But, this doesn't sound like the case here.

It sounds like the track is either covered in rubber and some tire compounds don't work well in this situation.

I think it is dangerous to just tell someone without qualifications that, "hey, you will cut a 1/2 second from your track times..."

Maybe so and maybe not -- it depends.

(and as usual -- it's just another of my opinions...)



------------------
Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines w/Brembos?
• Comptech headers & sways
• Silver AEM CAI
• 9 coats of Zaino magic

EricL

Don't add the "slow TL" line, just have your girl friend or wife start driving the car (if she is real light).

Especially nice if she's petite and weighs 100 lbs



------------------
Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines w/Brembos?
• Comptech headers & sways
• Silver AEM CAI
• 9 coats of Zaino magic

syncivic

Ron brings up a good point, this motor brings back memories of the T-Type / Grand Nationals...it loves to be chilled between runs at least 30 minutes under the ice block. I used up $8.00 in ice over 9 passes chilling the motor, along with running the fans and heat to disipate the thermal load. Ocassionally starting the car to circulate the hot coolant out of the block...

scalbert

Interesting, I had thought that you might just need to increase the flow across the band. The increase in displacement is about 8.5% so a subsequent increase in fuel would be needed at all revs.

Did you try larger injectors?? A proportional increase in injector size, 8.5%, may have negated the tuning required on the VAFC or even a bump in pressure to allow the PCM to hold 0% fuel trim. BTW, do you know the stock injector size??

The actual curve really shouldn't have changed since cams, etc. are the same. Just the stroke is increased which just means more fuel is needed at every engine speed and load.

Having tuned a few engines with the original AFC, ARC2, injector re-sizing and by simple 'ole fuel pressure I was just curious as to what all was tried.

scalbert

I can relate... My Typhoon would vary what seemed to be 50hp when going from a cold CAC to a hot CAC.

A liquid/air IC works great when it is cold but once heat soak occurs it takes some time to cool that fluid... Atleast the GN/T-Types had air/air, my preference in street vehicles or autocross.

But having liquid/air in the Sy/Ty was wonderful in the winter months, not to mention AWD...

syncivic

[QUOTE]Originally posted by scalbert:
[B] Interesting, I had thought that you might just need to increase the flow across the band. The increase in displacement is about 8.5% so a subsequent increase in fuel would be needed at all revs.

Remember the camshaft profile is a limiting factor to whats getting in the cylinder...

Did you try larger injectors?? A proportional increase in injector size, 8.5%, may have negated the tuning required on the VAFC or even a bump in pressure to allow the PCM to hold 0% fuel trim. BTW, do you know the stock injector size??

240cc is stock, which don't hit 100% duty cycle at WOT and 7000 RPM so why upsize?

The actual curve really shouldn't have changed since cams, etc. are the same. Just the stroke is increased which just means more fuel is needed at every engine speed and load.

ECU compensates with fuel trim adjustment

Having tuned a few engines with the original AFC, ARC2, injector re-sizing and by simple 'ole fuel pressure I was just curious as to what all was tried.

Fuel pressure is fine as long as you keep the injectors below 100% duty cycle...which we do.

syncivic

Scalbert, the above posting has your answers but the bold print didn't take so it looks like your answering your own questions....sorry.

scalbert

Thanks for the info on the injectors. I am always curious as to what size my cars run, just for future refernce. Now I jusy need to remember the lb/hr conversion factor...

The only reason to upgrade is to stay under the 80% - 90% duty cycle threshold. I've never been happy about locking an injector open to supply the needed fuel. What type of DC are you seeing at 7k revs??

What are you seeing as the long and short term trim values?? I assume they are going to the + side??

You can use fuel pressure to bring up or down your trim values. When I had a vacuum leak when I upgraded the blower on my GTP I set the DTC for "System too Lean" (don't remember the number), with the LT and ST FT at +21%. But I needed to go somewhere and by bumping up the fuel pressure I dropped both to about +10% which deterred future codes till I could tighten the bolts down better.

Having the Autotap software is great for the weekend mech. Being able to read DTC, sensors values and reset codes is an incredible tool.

BNut

Have they released AutoTap for the import OBDII connector? Last time I checked their site it was only available for certain domestic manufacturers.

I would love to have AutoTap logging data while I make runs at the track.

Also about icing the intake manifold, I dropped .5 seconds off my time one Friday just by buying a bag of ice. My first time was a 16.23 and that was with no cool down after a 1 hour drive to the track. 30 minutes later after icing the intake manifold down, I ran a 15.7. As my engine temps cooled down more through the night my times dropped down to the 15.5's and my final run of the night was a 15.44.

How long do you need to leave your car on in order for the coolant to cycle through the engine block without having the engine heat back up again?

My best runs are always when the engine temp guage is about 4-5 marks above the C line.

In the winter time be careful about over cooling the engine. Somebody dropped an axle at the end of the track so the track was shutdown for about an hour... well when I went to go run my car I ran a 17 something. Turns out my car had cooled off so much, that the VTEC cam was not engaging because the engine temp wasn't high enough.


------------------
2000 Acccord LX V6 Sedan
- Eibach Pro-Kit Springs& Koni Yellow Shocks
- AEM Short Ram Intake
- AEM Tru-Power Pulleys
- Jet Hot Coated CompTech Headers
- 15.45 @ 88.8mph (Track)

scalbert

I haven't seen it released for the imports yet either. The website still now doesn't even show the listing.

They do have a statement saying that they have not tested it on the imports but it might work. Regardless, they will provide no technical support.

I'm going to try and track down someone with the cable and load up the software just to give it a go.

The basic DTC's should be fine to read. Just the extended one's won't have definitions but the Helms manual would take care of that.

F=ma_RENAMED

RAdams, no sweat man. Its somewhat of a good thing that you didn't run such good times. Its showing just how fast the 3.5 CL-S is.

Remember 14.9 on the TL board? He's gotta 2000 TL as well which are slightly faster than 1999's. 14.9 ran 15.5's with just an AEM and nothing else. After icing the intake manifold he got a 14.9.

Anyways, my point is that he was running 15.5's with your setup, so for one thing we know that whatever the conditions, his were favorable by around .3-.4 seconds. Whether it be altitude, humidity, temperature, whatnot.

I just wanted to point out that your car was running around .3 to .4 seconds slower than what a 2000 TL ought to be running (without ice hehehe). And that we should take that into account when judging the 3.5 CL's times. Shave .3 seconds off its time, 13.8!! and that's hell of impressive!

------------------
Kenny
Slow TL

MCHM3

damn i want my car to break in already

------------------
2001 3.5 cl type s,custom voltage blue paint job, comptech headers, 18 inch ssr agle strusse rims(painted voltage blue with chrome lip), greddy evo exhaust, cross drilled rotors, pioneer avx 7000 tv, playstation2, iceman cold air intake(custom)nos fuel pressure regulator, piaa ion yellow fog lights, slammed on nex suspension (level ten torque converter, dommed topped pistons, mdx crankshaft, rods , bearings, heads ported and polished, vtec timing

my old car www.hondatech.org/99acv6ic.html
my cl http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?...064&Sequence=0

RAdams

Great reply... kinda puts it all into perspective and makes me fell better about it.. heh. I'm going back tonight and maybe I'll throw some ice on that badboy and see if it makes a difference.

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2000 WDP 3.2TL non-NAV
AEM CAI

CLS ACT

Just a note on street tires vs slicks:

Motortrend did some testing of the hennesy (sp?) viper on stock and slicks

0-60 3.21 sec Stock, 2.43 sec on slicks

The quickest street legal car MT has ever tested (Est. top speed of 230MPH, faster than the McLaren F1)

Lingenfelter Corvette: 4.51 vs 3.32 sec

------------------
The Red Rocket

bone-stock, and back to the way she oughta be!!

syncivic

Just relax, see ya on Saturday for your fix...

EricL

Did you ever get a the CAM info?




------------------
Silver 2001 CL-S with NAVI

• Mud guards
• Wheel locks
• Toyo T1S 235/45ZR17-97W* Proxies on 17x8" SSR Competition wheels (48lbs less than stock)
• Kevlar/SS Brake lines w/Brembos?
• Comptech headers & sways
• Silver AEM CAI
• 9 coats of Zaino magic

syncivic

Eric,

Rest assured....the money has flowed into that product a week ago...lets just say an installment on the engineering portion of the work. We will not release a less than fully engineered product, especially one that will destroy the motor if spec'd wrong.

BNut

Syncivic,

How long do you need to leave the motor on for the cooler coolant to enter the engine block? I don't want to leave the car on for too long and have it start heating up the engine again.

Thanks!

syncivic

Between runs, the engine is already above the T-stat opening temp and this means that running the motor for 30 seconds or so....this should change the blocks coolant with the cooler load in the radiator. With the engine off, leave the Heat on with blower high and AC on to run the cooling fans and use the heater core to exhange additional heat load. Cycle the engine (run) every ten minutes or so...just at idle. Put 8-10 lbs of bagged ice on the intake plenum during your "cool down". Remember to make all your runs with the AC panel completely off and the lights off if running daylight to dusk, some tracks require lights at night...use park lamps only to reduce alternator load.

Good luck

BNut

Thanks for the tips! 3 of the differnet tracks I been to in LA and TX only require parking lights when you run at night.

Hopefully it won't take so long for my engine to cool down b/w runs if I circulate the coolant every 10 minutes or so.

I used iced for the first time a few weeks ago. It was amazing, I dropped half a second off my time with engine temp about the same as my first run without the ice. Its been my experience that during the summer, even if I pop the hood and try to let the engine cool off for at least half an hour or more b/w runs that my times would gradually get slower and slower after each run. In the winter its the exact opposite, my times get quicker and quicker as the engine cools off more b/w each run.