tsx-fl

Been driving 2 weeks on new ToyoŽ Proxes T1-S. Got rid of my Michelin after 23,000 miles. I live in South Florida and I wanted a summer tire instead of that all season compromise. First impression the T1-S have a rubbery, airy feel, and sound hollow over obstacles. Noise is comparable to the Michelin. Performance wise the T1- S stick to the road like glue. The increased traction is quite noticeable at any speed. They feel very precise and extremely responsive to wheel input. As far as esthetic, the T1-S fits the rim better. No lip between the rim and the tire. The thick threads are aggressive looking and complement the rim very nicely. Quite a nice look. Overall at $136 a tire, I am quite pleased with my purchase.

http://www.toyo.com/tires/tire_lines/high_perf/t1s.html

xizor

Where'd you get them for $136? Are they on your OEM wheels?

tsx-fl

I got them from SABAL CHASE SERVICE & TIRE CNT
12019 S W 117 CT., MIAMI, FL 33186 Tel: (305) 255-5997, a South Florida Toyo dealer. Yes they are on my OEM wheels. You can go to http://www.toyo.com and find a dealer in your neck of the woods. I searched for a long time to replace the OEM Michelin. At 23,000 miles they were noisy and had a wo wo wo wo sound even tough I rotated them regularly. The ToyoŽ Proxes T1-S are first class tires. Fortunately I don’t have to worry about cold weather in South Florida. What I needed was a SUMMER TIRE with a high speed rating. That’s what I got.

Santa Rosa Steve

Online Tires has the T1-S on special for $138 or $139 ea. in 215/50 & 225/45-17.

(For people not living near Florida )

Santa Rosa Steve

captainjack

Howdy tsxfl, I'm down here too. Curious about how long the Toyos are expected to last. I want grip but don't want to buy new tires every six months.

Also, come to the big ol' meet next Sunday 5/1 at Aventura Mall.

tsx-fl

How are you captainjack? At what time is the meet? I would love to come. My office is close by in North Miami Beach. I agree that is the question T1-S’s longevity. I did a year and 23k on the Michelin which can last anywhere from 20k to 30k. Tires are important and the enjoyment you get from them so I am willing to compromise longevity. Only time will tell how long they will last but I sure enjoy them.

Nighthawk04

iTrader: (2)

$138 a tire for 215/50ZR17 @ Edge Racing: http://www.edgeracing.com/tires/2155017/

$135 a tire for 225/45ZR17 @ Edge Racing: http://www.edgeracing.com/tires/2254517/

Nighthawk04

iTrader: (2)

The T1-S comes with a UTQG treadwear rating of 280.

Your driving style is the most prominent factor as to how long these tires will last. If your an aggressive driver they'll last you 12k-15k miles. If you drive in a nice and relaxed manner they'll last you 18k-22k miles.

When I had them in 215/50ZR17 on my Eclipse they lasted me 13k miles, thanks largely to my autoX events...

Shorei

That lip can save a rim scrape though

tsx-fl

I don’t know. I am thinking the rim does not protrude so you hit the tire instead of the rim. I did touch the touch the rim once with my Michelin on and scraped the rim slightly. I will report if I am able to duplicate the incident not of my free will of course.

Dan Martin

Mind you some of the tires cost more than the rims these days.

Shorei

Iwas considering the Dunlop Sp9000 for the TSX - less money and I had them on my GSR and liked them but will check out the Toyos. They weren't too bouncy were they? I live in S. FLA too and we don't need all season. Most high perf. tires do better in the rain than all season.
I do have a Proxes TP that fits a pre 2004 TL 205/60/16 with 600 miles on it that I will sell for cheap if you know anyone with a TL - they can get 3 (About $105 ea) they are all season Z rated unidirectional.

tsx-fl

Not bouncy at all. I am very happy with them.

Shorei

I will be looking at the new Bridgestone Fuzion when I need tires for my TSX. They are getting excellent reviews and at Tire Rack in TSX size - $89 and they also have 320 tread wear rating. I'll wait and see if the reviews get worse.

Maxim Fx

Basically if you are looking for a street tire with the best grid, go for T1-S. I found it very sticky on race track. But yes it doesn't last long (may be I used it on track that's why) but compare to P7000, Falken tires I used, I love this the most.

Shorei

well at $138 compared to $90 the Fuzion so far look good if they have the grip and do good in the rain and aren't too noisy and wear level is the same - no brainer.

tsx-fl

I think the wear rating is 200.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/UTQG/Tires2.cfm

Nighthawk04

iTrader: (2)

Nope, its 280....

http://www.toyo.com/tires/tire_lines...tures_benefits

A manufacturer's website is always more accurate than a government website....

On top of that I've had T1-S's and it said 280 on the sidewall.

dnl2ba

At 20.9 lbs for 225/45/17, that's a 5 lb savings per corner from stock.

What's the skinny on 225/45/17 vs. 215/50/17 (the latter of which is the stock tire size)?

dowzer

I did some pretty exhaustive research on this, and decided to go with the 225/45/17s. I think it's a better overall fit than the 215/50/17, at least for the T1-S.

Apart from the obvious benefit of a wider contact patch, the 225s are 2 lbs lighter than the 215s. I also compared dimensional stats and was pleasantly surprised. Since the 225s are reinforced, their load rating is a better match than the 215s. The OEM Michelins are 93V, the Toyo 215s are 91Y and the 225s are 94W.

Furthermore, you'd expect a 2% diameter difference using a tire calculator, but in the case of the OEMs vs T1-S 225s, the difference is only 1%. The T1-S goes 828 revs/mile, and the OEMs are 819 revs/mile. Clearance is not an issue, as the loaded width is 8.8 for the OEMs vs 8.9 for the T1-S 225s.

The difference between the Y rating of the 215s and the W rating of the 225s (apart from speed) is probably slightly better ride comfort with the W. Generally higher rated tires have stiffer sidewalls - I can only assume its the same for the T1-Ss.

The OEMs weigh 26lbs each, the 225/45/17 T1-S weighs 20.9 lbs. The general rule for rotational mass is that 1lb is equivalent to 10lbs of sprung mass. So it would be like losing 5lbsx4x10 = 200lbs of weight on the car. Should give the car a bit more pep.

tsx-fl

That's interesting. I will have to look into that when I am ready to replace my 215/50/17. No doubt good rubber makes the car more enjoyable and safer with the extra grip.

I have had my rotors resurfaced three times since I bough the car because of warped rotors. I was feeling AGAIN some vibrations in the steering wheel but since I have my T1-S seems like the vibrations have stopped. Don't know if it’s my imagination.

dowzer

Your vibrations could have been caused by a defective tire. Did you try rotating the tires to see if the vibration changed or stopped? A bad belt/cord in the tire could cause vibrations that can't be detected or fixed by a tire balancer.

dnl2ba

I've heard everywhere from 2-8 lbs ratio, but I think 10 is new to me. Others have remarked that it varies depending on the weight of the car, torque available, distance from the hub, etc.

I felt a little difference when moving from 21 lb stock wheels to 12.5 lb, but not 320 lbs (2 male passengers). My guess is closer to 4-6x for the TSX.

tsx-fl

That must be it! I did get them rotated several times at the dealer because I take my car only there for service according to their service schedule. At 20k I thinK the OEM Michelin were on their last legs. Going back to the TS-1, for those who are thinking of changing their OEM rims I would suggest the TS-for looks because they have changed the appearance of the wheels as a whole. It's an aggressive look which I like a lot.

tuan209

those are some light wheels there dnl2ba! i may upgrade to these tires once i hit 15k w/ the oems.

dowzer

I've previously heard of 7lbs for unsprung weight, but then came across a posting describing the effect of rotational mass. I got the 10lb rule from that. But I do agree with you that there are a lot of factors in play, so there definitely isn't a golden rule.

The posting is here: Rotational Mass

I also found this spreadsheet that uses 3 different methods for calculating the effect of unsprung rotational mass. Plugging in some numbers for the TSX, comparing 215/50/17 OEM vs 225/45/17 T1-S, the calculation ranged from 6.2-9.4 lbs.

spreadsheet

KingV

Honestly, while you can say that lighter is better, it's virtually impossible to directly compare two wheels and say you get X amount of gain for X amount of weight loss. The gain depends as much on the distribution of the weight along the wheel as the actual weight of the wheel itself.

While the math for the rotational inertia of a point mass is relatively simple, it's much more complex due to integrals for something like a wheel where the weight is distributed about it. For an aftermarket car wheel, it's practically impossible due to the fact that you don't have the necessary data on hand to approximate the distribution of the mass against the axis. You could make a guess, but you're still not going to be that accurate.

Bigger but lighter wheels could potentially have a higher rotational inertia, lighter wheels of the same size could even have a higher rotational inertia than the stock wheels. There's practically no way to tell for certain other than time slips, figuring out the weight distribution of each wheel and directly comparing, or just kind of looking and saying "that wheel looks like more of the weight is at the center than that wheel, and it's lighter" (hardly an exact science).

TSX Hokie

KingV is dead on. Rotational moment of inertia is related to the distance the weight is from the axis of rotation raised to the FOURTH power. So just going from 17 inch wheels to 18 inch wheels gives you almost 20% more mass moments of inertia, even if the two wheels have the same total weight.

I wish wheel companies would spec more mass properties of their wheels than just the total weight.

TSX Hokie

I am currently deciding between the Toyo T1-S summer tires and the Toyo Proxes 4 all-season tires. It's a tough decision:

Proxes 4
Pros
Cheaper (less than $100 per)
300 Treadwear rating
Tread pattern looks awesome
The few reviews out there are all positive
Newer technology (just released a few months ago)

Cons
Relatively untested: I havent seen many reviews
2 lbs heavier than the T1-S, but still lighter than stock
Not as sticky for sure

T1-S
Pros
Best handling summer tire, bar none
Light. Very.

Cons
Expensive ($40/per more than Proxes 4)
Worse treadlife (280)
Everyone says they get noisy as hell after 5k miles or so
Softer compound, so overnight the tire will develop a flat spot; will vibrate until tire warms up
Ugly tread pattern. Looks like something you would put on a John Deer or something.
Will handle like hockey pucks below 40 deg F (which occurs alot in SW VA)

I don't care about mud+snow rating; I plan to put winter tires on the stock rims for Dec-March. Tough choice though. As you can probably tell, I am leaning towards the Proxes 4.

TinkySD

Very interesting info about the percentage differece on revs/miles.

Is there any cosmetic difference you can notice with increased wheel gap after switching to the t1-s?

dowzer

The overall diameter difference is 0.4", so it's not going to be noticeable.

TinkySD

According to the revs per mile the diameter difference should only be .25" as opposed to the .5 you'd expect from a standard 225-45-17. That's only a .125" increase in wheel gap and lower of ride height. I'm definitely going with these tires when my michelins wear out.

dnl2ba

Would you guys go with T1-Ss in the winter?

dowzer

You definitely need a separate set of winters. T1-S are a 3 season tire at best. They're pretty much useless at temps close to freezing and below.

I have 16" steel rims for winter tires. Probably going with either Dunlop Winter M3 or Goodyear UltraGrip GW3.

xizor

he lives in California, I think he could live w/ T1-S all year long

Shorei

unless he has to drive over Mt. Shasta (can be closed to cars w/no chains or closed period)

Gboyz78

I've had the T1-S on my 97 Eclipse GS-T for 2 years now. I have the 225-45-17. I can't wait for the Michelins to wear out. I am planning to get the same dimentions on my TSX.

tuan209

are the t1-s quiet?

tsx-fl

Quiet like the OEM Michelins. What amazes me with the T1-S is that my brake problems have disappeared. I used to get vibrations in the steering wheel and was unhappy with brake performance. Now the brakes have become a non issue. The best way I can describe it is the T1-S feel light in comparison with the OEM Michelin. They give me a precise feel not cumbersome like the OEM Michelin. I used to thing I had unsolvable rotors warping. Had them done 3 times in 23k miles. Now I realize the OEM Michelins were the culprit!!!! What a big surprise. So I have better braking performance, better steering, better feel, and great look on the OEM rims.

dnl2ba

Cool.

I've never driven in snow and I don't plan to any time soon.