Bilstein B12 Tuning Kit!!!
08-27-2009, 04:15 PM
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Bilstein B12 Tuning Kit!!!
So far, on my search for the perfect suspension for the TSX and my personal needs I have had the stock suspension:
too floaty, sits too high and not much there when it comes to brake dive, squat and roll.
Then had the A-Spec suspension and liked it rather well:
sat a little lower, dive, squat and roll were better controlled, but too abrupt over harsh bumps, not the best of rides all things considered.
Next I got a Tein Flex, sits as low as you want it, more harsh over bumps, especially slow bumps, also abrupt over bumps when it doesn't need to be.
A race suspension engineer I know suggested Bilstein, and I set out on a quest to find the correct set-up and finally received it.
Bilstein B12 Tuning kit
Compare rear/rear Bilstein vs. Aspec
As the car sits, so far the springs haven't settled, rear is down about 3/4" from the Aspecs, front maybe 1/2" lower.
Overall, with about 150 miles so far, the improvement was IMMEDIATE! Just pulling out of the driveway was smoother, less abrupt.
How do I describe this suspension????
Brake dive is much, much better, squat is tighter and much better controlled, roll is more controlled than the Tein Flex, but the ride is much, much smoother.
I just can't describe how much better this suspension is compared to every other suspension I have had:
Eibach/Tokiko Blues
H&R/Tokiko Illumina
Tein HA
Tein Super Street
SRR
JIC
And on the TSX
Stock
ASpec
Tein Flex
now Bilstein B12
In a nutshell, better control all around yet smoother than all the others I have had. I would recommend this suspension to anyone whether it's a daily driver or a lapping day fun toy.
too floaty, sits too high and not much there when it comes to brake dive, squat and roll.
Then had the A-Spec suspension and liked it rather well:
sat a little lower, dive, squat and roll were better controlled, but too abrupt over harsh bumps, not the best of rides all things considered.
Next I got a Tein Flex, sits as low as you want it, more harsh over bumps, especially slow bumps, also abrupt over bumps when it doesn't need to be.
A race suspension engineer I know suggested Bilstein, and I set out on a quest to find the correct set-up and finally received it.
Bilstein B12 Tuning kit
Compare rear/rear Bilstein vs. Aspec
As the car sits, so far the springs haven't settled, rear is down about 3/4" from the Aspecs, front maybe 1/2" lower.
Overall, with about 150 miles so far, the improvement was IMMEDIATE! Just pulling out of the driveway was smoother, less abrupt.
How do I describe this suspension????
Brake dive is much, much better, squat is tighter and much better controlled, roll is more controlled than the Tein Flex, but the ride is much, much smoother.
I just can't describe how much better this suspension is compared to every other suspension I have had:
Eibach/Tokiko Blues
H&R/Tokiko Illumina
Tein HA
Tein Super Street
SRR
JIC
And on the TSX
Stock
ASpec
Tein Flex
now Bilstein B12
In a nutshell, better control all around yet smoother than all the others I have had. I would recommend this suspension to anyone whether it's a daily driver or a lapping day fun toy.
08-27-2009, 04:55 PM
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They ship the kit in either a container across the ocean or air ship it. So it is available and I believe Marcus @ Heeltoe would be able to get it (I need to talk to him).
But he could arrange to have a couple of kits sent to the states.I can't say enough about this set-up, it seems perfect for the TSX and it's core attributes (great handling), only much, much enhanced.
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08-28-2009, 09:20 AM
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09-21-2009, 09:44 AM
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Ride is still well controlled but smoother, love the lack of brake dive when standing on the binders
My friend with an E46 M3 was very impressed with the ride and feel but still calls the TSX Wrong Wheel Drive.
09-21-2009, 03:40 PM
#16
Still feeling the love, only minus is not having the time to take it out on the track to REALLY give it a full evaluation.
Ride is still well controlled but smoother, love the lack of brake dive when standing on the binders
My friend with an E46 M3 was very impressed with the ride and feel but still calls the TSX Wrong Wheel Drive.
Ride is still well controlled but smoother, love the lack of brake dive when standing on the binders
My friend with an E46 M3 was very impressed with the ride and feel but still calls the TSX Wrong Wheel Drive.
10-13-2009, 01:42 AM
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We have the Bilstein dampers in Australia and they match really well with the Eibach springs..I was surprised that they are not readily available in the US??? You guys have everything!
11-07-2009, 06:15 PM
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11-10-2009, 04:41 PM
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11-11-2009, 03:03 AM
#24
bilstein's website says front drop is 30mm and rear is 25... ~1.2 inch front and ~1 inch drop rear? would you say that's about right? your pictures seem to indicate the drop is a bit bigger than that...
how would you rate the ride now? being that its non-adjustable and you get whatever you get out of the box, would you recommend it for a daily driver with spirited driving mixed in?
how would you rate the ride now? being that its non-adjustable and you get whatever you get out of the box, would you recommend it for a daily driver with spirited driving mixed in?
11-11-2009, 01:11 PM
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bilstein's website says front drop is 30mm and rear is 25... ~1.2 inch front and ~1 inch drop rear? would you say that's about right? your pictures seem to indicate the drop is a bit bigger than that...
how would you rate the ride now? being that its non-adjustable and you get whatever you get out of the box, would you recommend it for a daily driver with spirited driving mixed in?
how would you rate the ride now? being that its non-adjustable and you get whatever you get out of the box, would you recommend it for a daily driver with spirited driving mixed in?
Ride is MUCH better than A-Spec, it's firm, but much smoother...doesn't pound over bumps, it rides like a E46 M3 which is what I compare it to because I drive my friends all the time. I'm 42 with back problems and drive it everyday....would even take it out on the track with this suspension, which I have often done with my previous cars.
11-11-2009, 08:20 PM
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http://www1.carparts-cat.com/webkat....5018004&ROOT=1
BILSTEIN - B12 Tuning Kit
Gas Pressure, For vehicles without Xenon light, Conditions see certificates
Fitting Position Front Axle, Lowering 30 mm, To axle load 1040 kg
Fitting Position Rear Axle, Lowering 25 mm, To axle load 920 kg
without Xenon light? WTF? TSX has Xenon light...
BILSTEIN - B12 Tuning Kit
Gas Pressure, For vehicles without Xenon light, Conditions see certificates
Fitting Position Front Axle, Lowering 30 mm, To axle load 1040 kg
Fitting Position Rear Axle, Lowering 25 mm, To axle load 920 kg
without Xenon light? WTF? TSX has Xenon light...
11-12-2009, 03:28 AM
#29
http://www1.carparts-cat.com/webkat....5018004&ROOT=1
BILSTEIN - B12 Tuning Kit
Gas Pressure, For vehicles without Xenon light, Conditions see certificates
Fitting Position Front Axle, Lowering 30 mm, To axle load 1040 kg
Fitting Position Rear Axle, Lowering 25 mm, To axle load 920 kg
without Xenon light? WTF? TSX has Xenon light...
BILSTEIN - B12 Tuning Kit
Gas Pressure, For vehicles without Xenon light, Conditions see certificates
Fitting Position Front Axle, Lowering 30 mm, To axle load 1040 kg
Fitting Position Rear Axle, Lowering 25 mm, To axle load 920 kg
without Xenon light? WTF? TSX has Xenon light...
11-12-2009, 06:32 PM
#30
I believe the drop is more than what they say. It's lower than the A-Spec I had before.
Ride is MUCH better than A-Spec, it's firm, but much smoother...doesn't pound over bumps, it rides like a E46 M3 which is what I compare it to because I drive my friends all the time. I'm 42 with back problems and drive it everyday....would even take it out on the track with this suspension, which I have often done with my previous cars.
Ride is MUCH better than A-Spec, it's firm, but much smoother...doesn't pound over bumps, it rides like a E46 M3 which is what I compare it to because I drive my friends all the time. I'm 42 with back problems and drive it everyday....would even take it out on the track with this suspension, which I have often done with my previous cars.
currently at the top of my short list is the neuspeed supercup kit... if that group buy ever happens with the b12's tho i'd be really tempted! my ghetto option is h.techs with stock shocks... haha. i don't want anything more than ~1.2F/~1R drop... a-specs from what i can tell is not a big enough drop and not as compliant a ride for a DD to warrant spending that much money on
11-14-2009, 10:13 AM
#32
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The kit lowers the rear more than most non-adjustable suspensions, so yea, I have gotten flashed a few times since putting this kit on...have yet to adjust my headlights.
12-05-2009, 12:46 PM
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Thanks for sharing TodaSi. Good find!
BTW nice colour car!
It's most likely because as TodaSi said, this kit has to be imported and was originally made for Non-US spec TSX's. The Accords (TSX) in Europe and Australia have a NON Xenon option and can opt for just regular halogen headlights.
BTW nice colour car!
http://www1.carparts-cat.com/webkat....5018004&ROOT=1
BILSTEIN - B12 Tuning Kit
Gas Pressure, For vehicles without Xenon light, Conditions see certificates
Fitting Position Front Axle, Lowering 30 mm, To axle load 1040 kg
Fitting Position Rear Axle, Lowering 25 mm, To axle load 920 kg
without Xenon light? WTF? TSX has Xenon light...
BILSTEIN - B12 Tuning Kit
Gas Pressure, For vehicles without Xenon light, Conditions see certificates
Fitting Position Front Axle, Lowering 30 mm, To axle load 1040 kg
Fitting Position Rear Axle, Lowering 25 mm, To axle load 920 kg
without Xenon light? WTF? TSX has Xenon light...
02-22-2010, 03:13 PM
#36
Has anyone found more info on shipping prices to the states and sources? Feuss2, what is your shipping source?
TodaSi, thank you for sharing this info. Does this kit come complete with top hats and top hat bushings? If not, perhaps the
tl-s top hat bushings would make a nice addition.
What rim and tire size are you running TodaSi?
TodaSi, thank you for sharing this info. Does this kit come complete with top hats and top hat bushings? If not, perhaps the
tl-s top hat bushings would make a nice addition.
What rim and tire size are you running TodaSi?
Last edited by Mr.Wes; 02-22-2010 at 03:15 PM. Reason: more info needed.
02-22-2010, 05:46 PM
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Has anyone found more info on shipping prices to the states and sources? Feuss2, what is your shipping source?
TodaSi, thank you for sharing this info. Does this kit come complete with top hats and top hat bushings? If not, perhaps the
tl-s top hat bushings would make a nice addition.
What rim and tire size are you running TodaSi?
TodaSi, thank you for sharing this info. Does this kit come complete with top hats and top hat bushings? If not, perhaps the
tl-s top hat bushings would make a nice addition.
What rim and tire size are you running TodaSi?
They do not come with top hats.
11-16-2010, 07:43 PM
#38
To update this thread, I have been using the kit now for about 6 months. I spoke with Dan from DCDezign at dan@dcdezign.com which is a UK vendor that sourced the kit for me. Dan was great and very gracious taking time to research and answer my questions. Price shipped to me in Cali was about 1000 USD.
Impressions:
yes guys, the kit does seem to drop lower than advertised and lower than A-spec. The springs do settle some over time, but I believe that mine have stopped the settle process. My car looks lower in the front and slightly higher in the rear compared with Toda's photos. I believe that some of this effect may be due to Toda's pics being on a slanted surface. Overall, the kit lowers front more than rear and the overall stance is a slight rake with front being lower compared with the stock stance of the rear being somewhat lower. Rarely and after the springs settled in a few months, I do scrap the front bumper on steep driveways. This is rare and can usually be avoided with slowing down a bit and slight angled driving. However, this is very manageable and not overkill in my opinion (my former integra was quite low and avoiding scrapes was a chore).
In the following, I'll use the word "feel" often because I don't have actual measurements, only my impressions.
After the install, I immediately felt as though the car (stock suspension prior) was immediately faster. I found it odd that this was the first thing I noticed, but it was due to the MUCH better controlled acceleration squat compared to stock. So the acceleration feel and butt feeling when on the gas in a straight line was nicely improved.
Braking feel (a weak point on stock TSX) was also improved because brake squat is MUCH reduced.
Corner roll is also MUCH reduced though not eliminated. I was initially considering upgrading the rear sway along with this install, but I decided to test this kit on its own first. I am glad that I did because after the install (Thank you Marcus from heeltoe!), Marcus and I took the car for a spin with Marcus driving. Through some tight corners Marcus managed to get the tires squealing a little bit and the rear end of the car was trying to oversteer surprisingly. I would rate hard cornering at neutral to slight tendency to oversteer. However, this was before a proper alignment and with unsticky stock like tires!! So, I have not had the car in similar hard cornering situations after an alignment and the stock like tires remain (holding back the true cornering nature of this setup/car). So at this point guys, maybe Toda can tell you his cornering impressions to be more accurate (assuming he has good alignment and tires, unlike me at the time).
In average non-spirited driving the suspension was "bumpy" or "choppy" right after the install. These are imprecise terms, but the proper terminology escapes me...It just seemed to follow the uneven surfaces of the road a little too much. This had me concerned initially, but I do feel as does Marcus (after driving it several months later) that the suspension has mellowed out in this regard.
Now after all the settling, I would say this suspension is definitely comfortable for the daily drive. My girlfriend was not able to tell the difference in ride before/after and I had to remind her that I lowered the car at all. Discerning drivers like us will certainly tell the increased responsiveness over stock however. But in most situations the responsiveness is not overkill. There are times however like going over a dip at speed that the front end of the car raises up and squats back down somewhat sharply. No, the suspension is not bottoming out, I think it is more a function of the rebound in the strut.
Overall, the setup is an impressive blend of comfortable daily drivability and seriously improved performance that could also handle light track duty.
I love the setup, but I do realize that other options exist in the same price range that offer more adjustability (ride height, damping, etc.) while also matching the comfort/performance of this kit. So overall, I do recommend the kit...it's just all about whether you want adjustability or not.
Impressions:
yes guys, the kit does seem to drop lower than advertised and lower than A-spec. The springs do settle some over time, but I believe that mine have stopped the settle process. My car looks lower in the front and slightly higher in the rear compared with Toda's photos. I believe that some of this effect may be due to Toda's pics being on a slanted surface. Overall, the kit lowers front more than rear and the overall stance is a slight rake with front being lower compared with the stock stance of the rear being somewhat lower. Rarely and after the springs settled in a few months, I do scrap the front bumper on steep driveways. This is rare and can usually be avoided with slowing down a bit and slight angled driving. However, this is very manageable and not overkill in my opinion (my former integra was quite low and avoiding scrapes was a chore).
In the following, I'll use the word "feel" often because I don't have actual measurements, only my impressions.
After the install, I immediately felt as though the car (stock suspension prior) was immediately faster. I found it odd that this was the first thing I noticed, but it was due to the MUCH better controlled acceleration squat compared to stock. So the acceleration feel and butt feeling when on the gas in a straight line was nicely improved.
Braking feel (a weak point on stock TSX) was also improved because brake squat is MUCH reduced.
Corner roll is also MUCH reduced though not eliminated. I was initially considering upgrading the rear sway along with this install, but I decided to test this kit on its own first. I am glad that I did because after the install (Thank you Marcus from heeltoe!), Marcus and I took the car for a spin with Marcus driving. Through some tight corners Marcus managed to get the tires squealing a little bit and the rear end of the car was trying to oversteer surprisingly. I would rate hard cornering at neutral to slight tendency to oversteer. However, this was before a proper alignment and with unsticky stock like tires!! So, I have not had the car in similar hard cornering situations after an alignment and the stock like tires remain (holding back the true cornering nature of this setup/car). So at this point guys, maybe Toda can tell you his cornering impressions to be more accurate (assuming he has good alignment and tires, unlike me at the time).
In average non-spirited driving the suspension was "bumpy" or "choppy" right after the install. These are imprecise terms, but the proper terminology escapes me...It just seemed to follow the uneven surfaces of the road a little too much. This had me concerned initially, but I do feel as does Marcus (after driving it several months later) that the suspension has mellowed out in this regard.
Now after all the settling, I would say this suspension is definitely comfortable for the daily drive. My girlfriend was not able to tell the difference in ride before/after and I had to remind her that I lowered the car at all. Discerning drivers like us will certainly tell the increased responsiveness over stock however. But in most situations the responsiveness is not overkill. There are times however like going over a dip at speed that the front end of the car raises up and squats back down somewhat sharply. No, the suspension is not bottoming out, I think it is more a function of the rebound in the strut.
Overall, the setup is an impressive blend of comfortable daily drivability and seriously improved performance that could also handle light track duty.
I love the setup, but I do realize that other options exist in the same price range that offer more adjustability (ride height, damping, etc.) while also matching the comfort/performance of this kit. So overall, I do recommend the kit...it's just all about whether you want adjustability or not.
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Cyde (09-30-2011)
03-18-2011, 01:00 PM
#39
Ok, I'm in the middle of getting this kit from Germany, apparently Bilstein changed the numbers last January, and you will need this number now: 46-190178
http://web1.carparts-cat.com/default...6018001&12=140
http://web1.carparts-cat.com/default...6018001&12=140
http://web1.carparts-cat.com/default...6018001&12=140
http://web1.carparts-cat.com/default...6018001&12=140