A number of things...
08-24-2003, 05:38 PM
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A number of things...
Ah...couldn't resist but to post another thread, despite my earlier intention of leaving this forum...(someone did say something to gimme second thought...)
Anyways, for those who think I always dislike TSX (why would you think that in the first place...) here's a change:
I just love the way the car handles! I just came back from an autocross practice, and boy'o'boy, the car handles.
I posted a thread some time ago, and a number of people gave me suggestions on how to drive a FWD car (I am so used to RWD...have to fight my instinct behind the wheel today...). I would like to thank them, coz' almost all the technique worked!! I am almost as fast as my friend's Maxima, and only about 1 1/2- 2 sec away from a regular SCCA Solo2 G-Stock champion (used to be 5-6 sec off). The damping of the suspension is really good, and the grip level is satisfying.
A number of things I wish Acura would attend though:
1. Anti dive geometry in suspension. The car dive a little too much during hard braking.
2. Better, faster respond brake. Despite the healthy rotor size, the respond of the braking system is a little too slow/soft. I can't seem to be able to slow down fast enough. Also, more fade resistant will be nice.
3. Limited slip differential. During acceleration out of corners, the tires is always scrambling for traction. An LSD like the one in CL-S should cure the problem. Please offer this in MT, as an option at least.
Other than that, The car is competetive in it's class.
BTW, my car is running on Pirelli P Zero Nero 225/45ZR17 tires, with F 42 psi and R 40 psi.
P/S: Unfortunately, I didn't beat those E36 325is'. They are about 1-4 sec faster.
Anyways, for those who think I always dislike TSX (why would you think that in the first place...) here's a change:
I just love the way the car handles! I just came back from an autocross practice, and boy'o'boy, the car handles.
I posted a thread some time ago, and a number of people gave me suggestions on how to drive a FWD car (I am so used to RWD...have to fight my instinct behind the wheel today...). I would like to thank them, coz' almost all the technique worked!! I am almost as fast as my friend's Maxima, and only about 1 1/2- 2 sec away from a regular SCCA Solo2 G-Stock champion (used to be 5-6 sec off). The damping of the suspension is really good, and the grip level is satisfying.
A number of things I wish Acura would attend though:
1. Anti dive geometry in suspension. The car dive a little too much during hard braking.
2. Better, faster respond brake. Despite the healthy rotor size, the respond of the braking system is a little too slow/soft. I can't seem to be able to slow down fast enough. Also, more fade resistant will be nice.
3. Limited slip differential. During acceleration out of corners, the tires is always scrambling for traction. An LSD like the one in CL-S should cure the problem. Please offer this in MT, as an option at least.
Other than that, The car is competetive in it's class.
BTW, my car is running on Pirelli P Zero Nero 225/45ZR17 tires, with F 42 psi and R 40 psi.
P/S: Unfortunately, I didn't beat those E36 325is'. They are about 1-4 sec faster.
08-24-2003, 05:48 PM
#2
Senior Moderator
Re: A number of things...
Originally posted by TSXautoXer
Ah...couldn't resist but to post another thread, despite my earlier intention of leaving this forum...(someone did say something to gimme second thought...)
Anyways, for those who think I always dislike TSX (why would you think that in the first place...) here's a change:
I just love the way the car handles! I just came back from an autocross practice, and boy'o'boy, the car handles.
I posted a thread some time ago, and a number of people gave me suggestions on how to drive a FWD car (I am so used to RWD...have to fight my instinct behind the wheel today...). I would like to thank them, coz' almost all the technique worked!! I am almost as fast as my friend's Maxima, and only about 1 1/2- 2 sec away from a regular SCCA Solo2 G-Stock champion (used to be 5-6 sec off). The damping of the suspension is really good, and the grip level is satisfying.
A number of things I wish Acura would attend though:
1. Anti dive geometry in suspension. The car dive a little too much during hard braking.
2. Better, faster respond brake. Despite the healthy rotor size, the respond of the braking system is a little too slow/soft. I can't seem to be able to slow down fast enough. Also, more fade resistant will be nice.
3. Limited slip differential. During acceleration out of corners, the tires is always scrambling for traction. An LSD like the one in CL-S should cure the problem. Please offer this in MT, as an option at least.
Other than that, The car is competetive in it's class.
BTW, my car is running on Pirelli P Zero Nero 225/45ZR17 tires, with F 42 psi and R 40 psi.
P/S: Unfortunately, I didn't beat those E36 325is'. They are about 1-4 sec faster.
Ah...couldn't resist but to post another thread, despite my earlier intention of leaving this forum...(someone did say something to gimme second thought...)
Anyways, for those who think I always dislike TSX (why would you think that in the first place...) here's a change:
I just love the way the car handles! I just came back from an autocross practice, and boy'o'boy, the car handles.
I posted a thread some time ago, and a number of people gave me suggestions on how to drive a FWD car (I am so used to RWD...have to fight my instinct behind the wheel today...). I would like to thank them, coz' almost all the technique worked!! I am almost as fast as my friend's Maxima, and only about 1 1/2- 2 sec away from a regular SCCA Solo2 G-Stock champion (used to be 5-6 sec off). The damping of the suspension is really good, and the grip level is satisfying.
A number of things I wish Acura would attend though:
1. Anti dive geometry in suspension. The car dive a little too much during hard braking.
2. Better, faster respond brake. Despite the healthy rotor size, the respond of the braking system is a little too slow/soft. I can't seem to be able to slow down fast enough. Also, more fade resistant will be nice.
3. Limited slip differential. During acceleration out of corners, the tires is always scrambling for traction. An LSD like the one in CL-S should cure the problem. Please offer this in MT, as an option at least.
Other than that, The car is competetive in it's class.
BTW, my car is running on Pirelli P Zero Nero 225/45ZR17 tires, with F 42 psi and R 40 psi.
P/S: Unfortunately, I didn't beat those E36 325is'. They are about 1-4 sec faster.
Why are your running such high PSI?
Was understeer a problem? Have you thought about a thicker rear sway bar?
Also, I am curious about the class that the TSX was put in. Is there a website where I can see all the classes and what cars go in which?
Thanks!
08-24-2003, 06:11 PM
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eh, i'm no expert, but playing with tire pressure can alter the car's understeer/oversteer habits. more air pressure in the front tires helps keep understeer to a minimium. right 
08-24-2003, 06:33 PM
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I'll try to explain, but I am not good at it.
High PSI will make the tire harder, thus less sidewall flex. The result is that you're using more of the tire contact patch, but less side wall during hard cornering. Try to use a new pencil with a brand new eraser on the end. hold the pencil upright (90 degrees), and start rubbing the eraser against a piece of paper, you can see the eraser flexing from side to side, and eventually, you'll use up the edges of the eraser. However, if you have another pencil with harder compound eraser (or shave the existing eraser to half thickness), try to do the same test, and you can see the eraser is less flexible, and thus have more contact against the paper. The basic idea is that the more contact patch, the more grip. If I can find the article on this, I will post it later. Be aware DO NOT run these pressure on stock tires. The stock tire's max pressure is about 38-39 PSI versus my PZero's 51 PSI.
As for understeer, yes and no. Yes, if you enter a corner too fast (with the slow responding brakes, I experienced this a number of times). No, if you enter at the right speed, and control your throttle. I figure out this the other day, which is hold on to the throttle through out the corner, and after the car straightened out, start accelerating. Reason being, if you don't hold on to the gas, the car is actually decelerating, just like braking! And braking through corners is a big no no. The center of gravity will be too much outside of your outer front tires, and it will lose grip, thus results in understeer. Maintain the center of gravity ON the outer front tires by adding a little gas to maintain speed, or even accelerate a little.
The nature of the car is understeer, which is safe, but if you setup correctly, the cornering speed is actually quite high. Try it out.
I don't want to mess with current suspension setting. A thicker rear bar will definitely make the car rotate better. But other cars in my class did not do anything to theirs, so I won't do it either. I wanna beat them fair and square. (Plus I don't think you can change sway bars and still stay in Stock Class, unless you're making it smaller.)
To check the car classes, go to this website:
Jerry Mouton's 2003 SCCA car classes.
Have you ever autocrossed? If not I will try my best to make you go to one. You'll love it.
PS Actually the test I mentioned above will stand true in explaining why lower profile tires have better for performance as well...just a thought.
High PSI will make the tire harder, thus less sidewall flex. The result is that you're using more of the tire contact patch, but less side wall during hard cornering. Try to use a new pencil with a brand new eraser on the end. hold the pencil upright (90 degrees), and start rubbing the eraser against a piece of paper, you can see the eraser flexing from side to side, and eventually, you'll use up the edges of the eraser. However, if you have another pencil with harder compound eraser (or shave the existing eraser to half thickness), try to do the same test, and you can see the eraser is less flexible, and thus have more contact against the paper. The basic idea is that the more contact patch, the more grip. If I can find the article on this, I will post it later. Be aware DO NOT run these pressure on stock tires. The stock tire's max pressure is about 38-39 PSI versus my PZero's 51 PSI.
As for understeer, yes and no. Yes, if you enter a corner too fast (with the slow responding brakes, I experienced this a number of times). No, if you enter at the right speed, and control your throttle. I figure out this the other day, which is hold on to the throttle through out the corner, and after the car straightened out, start accelerating. Reason being, if you don't hold on to the gas, the car is actually decelerating, just like braking! And braking through corners is a big no no. The center of gravity will be too much outside of your outer front tires, and it will lose grip, thus results in understeer. Maintain the center of gravity ON the outer front tires by adding a little gas to maintain speed, or even accelerate a little.
The nature of the car is understeer, which is safe, but if you setup correctly, the cornering speed is actually quite high. Try it out.
I don't want to mess with current suspension setting. A thicker rear bar will definitely make the car rotate better. But other cars in my class did not do anything to theirs, so I won't do it either. I wanna beat them fair and square. (Plus I don't think you can change sway bars and still stay in Stock Class, unless you're making it smaller.)
To check the car classes, go to this website:
Jerry Mouton's 2003 SCCA car classes.
Have you ever autocrossed? If not I will try my best to make you go to one. You'll love it.
PS Actually the test I mentioned above will stand true in explaining why lower profile tires have better for performance as well...just a thought.
08-24-2003, 06:40 PM
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high pressue definitely leads to better streeing response, but at the sacrifice of some traction.. Have you tried running at like 37 all around? I would think that would be a good compromise. Also how do you feel about the neros as compared to stock. Huge difference i assume. also are you running the nero a/s or the nero summer?
08-24-2003, 06:41 PM
#7
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by TSXautoXer
I'll try to explain, but I am not good at it.
High PSI will make the tire harder, thus less sidewall flex. The result is that you're using more of the tire contact patch, but less side wall during hard cornering. Try to use a new pencil with a brand new eraser on the end. hold the pencil upright (90 degrees), and start rubbing the eraser against a piece of paper, you can see the eraser flexing from side to side, and eventually, you'll use up the edges of the eraser. However, if you have another pencil with harder compound eraser (or shave the existing eraser to half thickness), try to do the same test, and you can see the eraser is less flexible, and thus have more contact against the paper. The basic idea is that the more contact patch, the more grip. If I can find the article on this, I will post it later. Be aware DO NOT run these pressure on stock tires. The stock tire's max pressure is about 38-39 PSI versus my PZero's 51 PSI.
As for understeer, yes and no. Yes, if you enter a corner too fast (with the slow responding brakes, I experienced this a number of times). No, if you enter at the right speed, and control your throttle. I figure out this the other day, which is hold on to the throttle through out the corner, and after the car straightened out, start accelerating. Reason being, if you don't hold on to the gas, the car is actually decelerating, just like braking! And braking through corners is a big no no. The center of gravity will be too much outside of your outer front tires, and it will lose grip, thus results in understeer. Maintain the center of gravity ON the outer front tires by adding a little gas to maintain speed, or even accelerate a little.
The nature of the car is understeer, which is safe, but if you setup correctly, the cornering speed is actually quite high. Try it out.
I don't want to mess with current suspension setting. A thicker rear bar will definitely make the car rotate better. But other cars in my class did not do anything to theirs, so I won't do it either. I wanna beat them fair and square. (Plus I don't think you can change sway bars and still stay in Stock Class, unless you're making it smaller.)
To check the car classes, go to this website:
Jerry Mouton's 2003 SCCA car classes.
Have you ever autocrossed? If not I will try my best to make you go to one. You'll love it.
PS Actually the test I mentioned above will stand true in explaining why lower profile tires have better for performance as well...just a thought.
I'll try to explain, but I am not good at it.
High PSI will make the tire harder, thus less sidewall flex. The result is that you're using more of the tire contact patch, but less side wall during hard cornering. Try to use a new pencil with a brand new eraser on the end. hold the pencil upright (90 degrees), and start rubbing the eraser against a piece of paper, you can see the eraser flexing from side to side, and eventually, you'll use up the edges of the eraser. However, if you have another pencil with harder compound eraser (or shave the existing eraser to half thickness), try to do the same test, and you can see the eraser is less flexible, and thus have more contact against the paper. The basic idea is that the more contact patch, the more grip. If I can find the article on this, I will post it later. Be aware DO NOT run these pressure on stock tires. The stock tire's max pressure is about 38-39 PSI versus my PZero's 51 PSI.
As for understeer, yes and no. Yes, if you enter a corner too fast (with the slow responding brakes, I experienced this a number of times). No, if you enter at the right speed, and control your throttle. I figure out this the other day, which is hold on to the throttle through out the corner, and after the car straightened out, start accelerating. Reason being, if you don't hold on to the gas, the car is actually decelerating, just like braking! And braking through corners is a big no no. The center of gravity will be too much outside of your outer front tires, and it will lose grip, thus results in understeer. Maintain the center of gravity ON the outer front tires by adding a little gas to maintain speed, or even accelerate a little.
The nature of the car is understeer, which is safe, but if you setup correctly, the cornering speed is actually quite high. Try it out.
I don't want to mess with current suspension setting. A thicker rear bar will definitely make the car rotate better. But other cars in my class did not do anything to theirs, so I won't do it either. I wanna beat them fair and square. (Plus I don't think you can change sway bars and still stay in Stock Class, unless you're making it smaller.)
To check the car classes, go to this website:
Jerry Mouton's 2003 SCCA car classes.
Have you ever autocrossed? If not I will try my best to make you go to one. You'll love it.
PS Actually the test I mentioned above will stand true in explaining why lower profile tires have better for performance as well...just a thought.
I would love to autocross one day. I will definately need new tires though.
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08-24-2003, 06:46 PM
#8
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OK just checked that website. ..
I am surprised that the TSX is not in the D class. Is it really not able to keep pace with an IS300, or 04 maxima on an autocross course? What about a golf or jetta! This is surprising.
I am surprised that the TSX is not in the D class. Is it really not able to keep pace with an IS300, or 04 maxima on an autocross course? What about a golf or jetta! This is surprising.
08-24-2003, 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by TinkySD
high pressue definitely leads to better streeing response, but at the sacrifice of some traction.. Have you tried running at like 37 all around? I would think that would be a good compromise. Also how do you feel about the neros as compared to stock. Huge difference i assume. also are you running the nero a/s or the nero summer?
high pressue definitely leads to better streeing response, but at the sacrifice of some traction.. Have you tried running at like 37 all around? I would think that would be a good compromise. Also how do you feel about the neros as compared to stock. Huge difference i assume. also are you running the nero a/s or the nero summer?
Neros are great. Good grip, and according to tirerack, is a faster tire on track comparing to BS Potenza S-03 and Mich Pilot Sport. The difference from stock is HUGE. Better feed back from the road to steering, faster response, and a lot more grip. Also, it is very predictable. It won't snap out of traction, rather a progressive fade away. I strongly recommend it. The one I use is the summer version. A/S design is not for autocross use. BTW, these tires need to be warmed up to perform at their best.
08-24-2003, 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by fdl
OK just checked that website. ..
I am surprised that the TSX is not in the D class. Is it really not able to keep pace with an IS300, or 04 maxima on an autocross course? What about a golf or jetta! This is surprising.
OK just checked that website. ..
I am surprised that the TSX is not in the D class. Is it really not able to keep pace with an IS300, or 04 maxima on an autocross course? What about a golf or jetta! This is surprising.
08-24-2003, 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by fdl
... I WAS running about 3-4 psi higher than recommended in each tire so I was just curious...
I would love to autocross one day. I will definately need new tires though.
... I WAS running about 3-4 psi higher than recommended in each tire so I was just curious...
I would love to autocross one day. I will definately need new tires though.
To reply your other post, I think TSX can keep pace with IS300, Jetta or Golf. But WRX, hmmm....not really... I don't really understand the classification, but I think it has to do with drivetrain, power to weight ratio, torque to weight ratio and performance/acceleration numbers. Anybody cares to explain?
08-24-2003, 07:07 PM
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I just noticed something, any of those cars fdl mentioned has higher torque than TSX, and I do think torque is very important in autocross, since the corners are tight, the straights are short. Torque monsters like VQ engines in Nissan cars, Mit Evo, tends to be faster out of corner and on the straight.
Do you guys think this is possible?
Do you guys think this is possible?
08-24-2003, 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by finalheaven
I am wondering this too. TSXautoXer is this true?
I am wondering this too. TSXautoXer is this true?
08-24-2003, 07:45 PM
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Go get some BFG R1's.....Nice hard side wall let the fronts pressure out and pump up the rears. That will solve your understeer problem. Maybe the r1's aren't that great of a tire anymore but I did damn good against those pesky Neons in my NX2000 with'um.(Both DS at the time)
T
T
08-24-2003, 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by atlatr
Go get some BFG R1's.....Nice hard side wall let the fronts pressure out and pump up the rears. That will solve your understeer problem. Maybe the r1's aren't that great of a tire anymore but I did damn good against those pesky Neons in my NX2000 with'um.(Both DS at the time)
T
Go get some BFG R1's.....Nice hard side wall let the fronts pressure out and pump up the rears. That will solve your understeer problem. Maybe the r1's aren't that great of a tire anymore but I did damn good against those pesky Neons in my NX2000 with'um.(Both DS at the time)
T
08-24-2003, 09:47 PM
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I know I'll never race my TSX the way you do yours, but even with limiting myself to "spirited" driving at times (after break in, of course!), I too can appreciate the handling of this really sweet car. And I'm just a 5/ATer!
08-25-2003, 01:06 AM
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Actually, sometimes AT causes less distraction, less foot work. Plus, since the brake pedal is larger, it's easier to do left foot braking. I'm sure you'll enjoy every moment of it.
08-25-2003, 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by TSXautoXer
Hmm...are you running 3-4 psi higher than Max allowed or recommended? If you're running higher than Max, I would suggest you to lower it to just Max, when cold (which means before driving each morning). Too much air in a tire risk the chance of bursting, and uneven thread wear.
Hmm...are you running 3-4 psi higher than Max allowed or recommended? If you're running higher than Max, I would suggest you to lower it to just Max, when cold (which means before driving each morning). Too much air in a tire risk the chance of bursting, and uneven thread wear.
08-25-2003, 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by dnb
FWIW, I remember a quote from a Goodyear engineer a long time ago. He said tires are rated for pressures way beyind their published max values. Tires with published ratings of 32 -- 39 psi have unofficial max values of 90 psi.
FWIW, I remember a quote from a Goodyear engineer a long time ago. He said tires are rated for pressures way beyind their published max values. Tires with published ratings of 32 -- 39 psi have unofficial max values of 90 psi.
it would suck for a blade of grass to pop ur tires
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