curls

I've been noticing this problem more and more recently and its getting to the point where I think it might be telling me "something is about to break".

When accelerating (NOT when coasting or braking), I get a strong vibration, or shaking, between probably 2000 and 5500rpm. Any gear (its a 6MT, btw). I had 5 fishing rods in the car yesterday and they were REALLY clacking around, and anytime I have a bottle of water laying on the front seat, it vibrates and the water goes all bubbly from the strong vibrations.

Again, it does not happen at all when coasting in gear or out of gear, and does not happen when braking. There is no pedal pulsation from the brakes, either, so they're fine.

Could this be a CV axle going bad? They are the original ones from 2003-2004. What's the best way to test each axle to figure out which is bad? I haven't heard any clicking when turning tightly, which in my past experience has been the easy way to tell which axle was going out.

Lastly, and I don't know if this is related or not, I hear a whirring type noise when at any speed above say 75 km/h (main roads or highways). I can't pinpoint it as its sort of a droning noise. I ASSUME it's the tires (General Exclaim UHP's) as they are 3+ years old and the tread is getting low-ish (I have probably until fall 2011 and then they need replacing). It does kind of sound like tread noise but at the same time, maybe it's the axle (CV joints themselves) screaming at me?

What can I do to check each axle (visually or test-driving)? Anything else I should check?

Thanks!

rtea2008

iTrader: (2)

I kind of have this problem too! but I haven't asked anyone about it. My vibrations are minor, not as much as yours to where everything shakes inside. I'm beginning to think it may be the drive train/axle too. One of my boots is loose, but there's still grease in it and I don't hear anything clicking.

curls

After further reading, it seems that the inner CV going bad will cause the shaking when accelerating, but the outer CV joint going bad will cause the clicking when turning tightly. These are "guidelines" but are pretty much the rule, not the exception to the rule.

I'm getting under the car today and will check for any play in the inner and outer CV joints. I'm told that ANY play = a joint going bad. Good thing that new CV axles (complete) are only about $100 CDN shipping included. The job itself is straightforward but can get complicated of a ball joint gets stuck. I don't think I should experience any problems as I have had the suspension mostly apart within the past 2 years without any seizing.

I'll keep you updated.

pknuts

Hey just changed my axles and actually got a bad one. The inner joint had to much play. It was so bad I could actually here it knock when putting it into gear. I bought Empi axles brand new in the box and I don"t think the quality is up to par. If you can have the original factory axles rebuilt you will be much better off. One way to check the passenger is to hold the intermediate axle in one hand and the half shaft in the other and see if there is any play when turning them. The play on the inner will be between the boot and the box. I switched out the passenger side for a rebuilt factory and it is much better. I should probably do the drivers side to as there is still a small amount of vibration when accelerating in low rpms.

curls

Ok I just got back from checking it out. (Note: I did the checks with no weight on the suspension (car just on jackstands, nothing supporting the suspension)). Not sure if that's OK or whatever.

Right side: Some minor rotational play on the inner CV joint (I can feel a slight "tick" when attempting to hold one shaft still while rotating the other). A fair amount of up/down play on the inner CV joint if I push up on the shafts on either side of the boot. Outer CV joint has nearly no (or no discernable) play up/down, and only a very very slight rotational play (hold the wheel firmly, try turning the shaft between outer and inner joint = very very very little play if any). The only one that really stood out was the up/down play on the inner joint (that is unless ANY play, rotational or up/down, is bad).

Left side: Some rotational play on the inner CV joint. A small(er than right side) amount of up/down play on the inner CV joint if I push up on the shafts on either side of the boot. Outer CV joint has nearly no (or no discernable) play up/down, and no discernable rotational play.

So is it just the right axle that needs to be swapped, or is ANY PLAY AT ALL, either up/down, or rotational, a bad thing?

Cheers,
Eric

nbtx

There should not be any play - rotational or otherwise. This is beginning to look like one of the weak links on these vehicles. Are the CV joint boots OK? If there is any leakage, the joint is going to quickly fail, especially where salt is used on the roads.

curls

Boots are all good. The inner right one looks oily but that's thanks to the terrible positioning of the oil filter, and a recent oil change. LOL.

The rotational play was extremely minimal... less than 1 degree I'd think. The vertical play -- could that actually be OK since the joint itself is meant to change angles?

Just thinking aloud (via the keyboard).

stogie1020

My car is at the dealership for the EXACT issue, and they are replacing the axle.

curls

Weird coincidence, stogie! If possible, ask them what exact checks they do to determine which of the two need replacing - I'd be really interested to know.
Thanks!

stogie1020

Yeah, me and the dealership aren't really in "collaboration mode" anymore...

With all of the people having axle problems, why is Acura not stepping up to the plate with this?

DuckDodgers

Actually, there is also the intermediate shaft to worry about. My intermediate shaft carrier bearing went south, jacked the shaft enough to wear it and that wore the right axle too...

Get under the car and look for any oil film, spray, or leakage from the intermediate shaft (running from the transaxle to the right axle shaft) carrier bearing.

curls

Its nearly impossible for me to tell if the carrier bearing is shot -- there's oil in that area and on/around the oil filter, from a recent oil change (I still HATE the location of the TSX oil filter as it makes for a MESSY job and always leaves oil on the axle!).

I heard no grinding from that area (or anywhere for that matter) when turning the wheel while laying under the car.

I did notice (just now) that a replacement "axle assembly" actually doesn't include the intermediate shaft or the bearing area - the new axle has a female 26 (or 27, can't remember) spline joint that I guess goes through the carrier bearing and c-clips to the matching male splined end of the intermediate shaft. Saves me from having to worry about getting the shaft out of the transmission casing!

pknuts

If you can find an axle shop in Ottawa i would take off your old axles and either have them rebuilt or just switch them out for new rebuilt factory's.
That tick when you hold the intermediate axle and turn the half shaft is where the vibration is coming form. It means the rollers inside the cv joint are worn down. It's best to replace both axles.

Actually if you a really good axle shop some where up there you might be able to have them installed for cheaper then you might think. I drove my tsx to High tech axle down here in Tx and told him I though the new axle i bought was bad and asked if he could rebuild it. He said he a factory rebuilt one there and asked if I wanted him to install it. 30 minutes and 150$ I was driving away with a new axle. He told to come back and get the other switched out if i still had vibration. I was so impressed i tipped him an extra 20$.

curls

I've had pretty poor luck with rebuilds in the past with axles (not on this car but the same principles apply). I was looking at an EMPI brand, made-in-USA, new axle assembly. It runs from the carrier bearing to the spindle nut. Comes with all new hardware (C-clip and spindle nut), etc. Price is very good, too, at $104 CAD with free shipping.

Rebuilds cost $125-$150 here locally plus the downtime of the car (which I can't easily have right now). With DIY, I can get it done on a weekend when I don't need the car as much.

My friend the mechanic can get me a "good" deal on the labour if I want, but even that is more than I'd pay as this DIY isn't too bad and I can rent the ball joint tools for free.

Good on you to find a good place to get yours done -- sounds like a great deal!

moda_way

curls, you definitely have the bad inner CV. I didn't replace my intermediate when I did mine and I think I have roughly 40k on the axles I got. I've noticed a very minor shake at 25mph on acceleration, but I believe that to be the fact that the left axle (the longest of the two) didn't have a vibration/balancing "donut" on it like the stock ones. That is the location of the vibration from what I can feel. Other than that, I get no vibration at all and have been very pleased.

curls

Hey moda_way. I was speaking with one of the head guys at EMPI axles and he says that there's a chance that it's the intermediate shaft carrier bearing has crapped out. I will be testing that and the axles (again) this weekend. I figure, however, that if it is not the carrier bearing, then I'll replace both axles at the same time as they both seemed to have some play in them. Then again, I was checking the axles with the suspension hanging/unloaded, which the guy at EMPI told me can force the axle out of the machined range and introduce false play into the joint. That's why I'm checking again this weekend with the suspension jacked up so the joint is nearly straight, as intended.

When replacing the axle and/or intermediate shaft that goes into the transmission, did you have to drain/fill the transmission? I just did that a few months ago and don't want to have to do it again if not necessary.

DuckDodgers

Service manual calls for draining the transmission...dealership tech explained how they just pull, replace, and top up as necessary. You'll spill at most a small amount of fluid with the 6MT...the above may not apply to a 5AT.

zguy95135

I had this problem for a while, the mechanic was skeptical to replace the axles because they seemed in spec. Once they got replaced it stopped the vibration though.

curls

I figure I'll just jack up the side I'm working on, so the transmission fluid tilts to the other side. I should be able to get away with that and still have room under the car to yank the axle out.

I have a 6MT so if necessary I can top up with some Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 synthetic. If its only a fraction of a litre it will be just fine without pure Honda MTF.

curls

Well I've ordered both new axles - both had play so they need replacing. They might not be THE cause of the vibration (still could be the carrier bearing) but the odds are greatly in favour of the axles being the problem on the TSX. The price has been going up on them lately so I grabbed them from my "cart" on a Canadian parts site -- the cart price hadn't risen yet.

I'll update with results in a week or two.

curls

Well, I "tried" to install the new axles today, and came across a HUGE problem with my car. The lower suspension fork bolts are completely seized into the bushing of the lower half of the shock fork. I tried everything - heat, penetrant, impact driver, BFH (a lot!), etc... it was NOT moving. I really don't want to have to replace the entire friggin' suspension fork.

Anyone know if the axle can come out without removing the suspension fork? I didn't think it'd fit, and had no patience today to check as I was working in a hot, stuffy garage.

ARGH...

curls

Mission complete. I decided to try the passenger side even though the drivers' side suspension fork flange bolt was seized. Luckily, the passenger side one was fairly easy to remove (it was removed/replaced when I was t-boned in 2006).

Got the axle replaced on the passenger side and all is well! No more vibration at all, and it also sounds better (less humming/growling, now its just tire noise).

I have a spare drivers' side axle sitting here -- not sure I should return it as I'll likely need it eventually. Glad the one that cooperated was the problem axle though, that definitely made my day.

Mister_TL

iTrader: (2)

i had this same issue a year or two ago.. i got re-manufactured axles, that worked perfect at first but only 8K miles or so later i started having the same issue. I took them back to the place i got them, they confirmed they had gone bad (cant remember exactly what happened) gave me another set that again did not work for very long. I scratched getting re-manufactured axles, and went to an import parts store in my area and purchases two brand new EMPI axles. they worked flawlessly for at least a year if not more. All of a sudden between 20-40 MPH (give or take) the car vibrates pretty bad, only when on the gas peddle and only when I'm using the gas peddle like my grandmother would. If i give it more juice when in the MPH range, it does not shake, maybe just a tad but nothing compared to what it does when i press the peddle lightly.
My issue is this...why am i going through axles so quickly? my car is slammed, but i have seen many people on the ZINE with cars quite lower than mine. i was also under the impression that having your car lowered, would not cause your axles to go bad..is this true? do you guys think i have a different issue that is causing the axles to only last a short amount of time? thanks for any help you guys can give me. i hate the fact i have to replace my axles every year or two so i can have somewhat of a smooth ride..

phishie

Might be a bit old to respond/revive this thread but if you don't have a rear camber kit with your lowering then that may be causing your axles to go bad fast. Lowering without a rear camber kit can cause your alignment to look like this: / \ rather than how it should look: ||

phishie

More info on lowering and rear camber kits here: https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-tsx-2004-2008-124/rear-camber-kit-required-lowering-649358/

Instigat0r

I had a similar problem with accelerating and feeling shudering/shaking in my 04 tsx at certain speeds. It only happened during accelerating and wasn't dependant on what gear I'd be in. Before changing my axels, I felt the shuddering around 30-35 mph and then again between 60-70. I did research here and it seemed the axels were the issue. I chose to replace the passenger side axel with and advanced auto one. Didn't really notice any change but now my car was shudding at 20 mph and also the normal 30 and 65 phm speeds. I figured I just replaced the wrong side and then changed the drivers side. Instantly cured the shuddering at 30 and 65 mph but I still have the shuddering at 20mph??? Maybe the cheap advance auto passenger dirve shaft is giving me problems but my brother is a honda mechanic and dad is a retired mechanic, and both say its doubtful, but possible, that a new, yet cheap axel would be defective. Guess I should check carrier bearing? Or re-replace passenget shaft?

rtea2008

iTrader: (2)

I finally got my right side (passenger) axle changed out. I'm afraid to step out of the oem zone for these parts so I went to my local junk yard and picked it up. Turns out my problem was the axle. No more vibrations! I'm at 84k miles now, '06 MT

Used axles ranged between $75-$100, I saw there are aftermarket axles online for $55 maybe a little cheaper, but I don't trust those.

DuckDodgers

Don't forget the intermediate shaft...that's what failed first on mine and started the failure of the outer axle. The carrier bearing went...if you've replaced both axles but not the intermediate shaft, you might be in the market for another axle soon.

Ck98vteC

Man this sounds like the fix for my vibration as well, will have to check the axles on mine as well. This started right after I got my car when I hit a extremely rough patch of I-65 headed to Chicago doing 90...I know something got messed up.

curls

Check that none of your wheel balancing weights fell off. Super cheap and simple fix compared to an axle.

rtea2008

iTrader: (2)

Would you say factory rebuilt axles are better than brand new aftermarket replacements? I'm looking to buy some axles right now and I was wondering what are your opinions? Thanks

DuckDodgers

Factory rebuilt are super expensive and fail just like the originals...I'd go with a reputable rebuilder or one of the upgrade units available from some vendors on here.

rabican

I had this same proble, I just had it repaired last week by Acura, they said the bushings in the axle were binding. They replaced both axles, said the repair would have cost $1200 but my 100k extended power train warranty covered it.

DuckDodgers

rabi, did they replace the intermediate shaft too? If the axle bearings were binding, I'd argue they would damage the intermediate shaft and it's carrier bearing too. Make sure to document if they didn't change it, and be very aware of any new shakes in the 55 mph range.

rabican

I'm not sure, ill cjeck my invoice when i get home.

rtea2008

iTrader: (2)

I went ahead and replaced both driver and passenger side axles thanks to @vtech-erick. I got them for a good price and now my car is sailing smooth. I did tear up the lower ball joint boots. I should replace those soon

importgrl727

same thing here. replaced the passenger axle today and the vibration is not as bad, but not gone. hesitant to replace the driver side becasue there is no play at all. called Acura and they suggested spark plugs, but the RPMs are smooth when the vibration occurs.

DuckDodgers

grl, I had Acura replace my passenger axle under warranty...still vibrated...that's when they discovered the intermediate shaft was bad. The intermediate is only on the passenger side, and commonly the carrier bearing fails, causing vibration, and eventually destroying the axle too.

The key is that it is the common 55-60 or so vibration.

rabican

The service invoice just says:
"driveshaft assy
core return
driveshaft assy
core return"

Think they replaced it?...ill keep an eye out for any more vibration.

DuckDodgers

Nope, the intermediate shaft was NOT replaced. I'd call the dealership and talk to the service manager and ask why. if the axles were binding, the intermediate shaft from the trans to the wheel was not replaced. Also, advise him that a failure of this part after your 100k warranty would be covered since they did not replace it even though it is in the thrust path that was damaged.