iamhomin

Anywhere between two thousand to three thousand.

jiggaman

how can it over rev if there is a rev limiter

ks112

if you just get a plain compression test at the shop it should be no more then 20 dollars. or you can do it yourself

97AcuraCL

?? How do I do it? How will I know if everything is okay?

97AcuraCL

Just a litttle difference here... and if one of you is screwin with me :sqntfawk: I'm not in the mood to play, its a big problem for me, its not a laughing matter and whoever is serious...

toddstuh

You can clear those codes with any ODBII diag tool go to someone that has a diag tool. I actually own one, they're pretty inexpensive now but any mechanic could read your codes. Clear the DTC codes and go to another dealership if necessary.
A compression test is merely a matter of removing a sparkplug from each cylinder one at a time and replacing it with a guage with a sparkplug like threaded plug that measures your compression on a cylinder by cylinder basis while cranking the engine. No big deal, it takes all of 10 mins per cylinder. 1 hour labor max.
The database and VIN sounds farfetched. The local dealership has a service record database but I would seriously doubt that it's tied into any corporate database. They're able to read from an Honda/Acura database but I doubt they're capable of modifying that information. They're not that advanced and most of these service types are lucky if they can find the left mouse button.
An over rev isn't necessarily detrimental to your engine. Its maintaining an over rev for an extended length of time which is. Sauceman experienced his over rev episode and I believe that he hasn't discovered any damage.
Honda engines are pretty tough and are well designed and assembled. I wouldn't worry about it, clear the codes if they're still there and enjoy your TSX !

97AcuraCL

I LOVE YOU! thanks... i feel much better! I can get one of the boyz at the honda dealer to use the thing and erase the code, and then take it to the acura dealer that orignally fixed my gearbox when it had that first problem and be done with it! :-)

97AcuraCL

Inexpensive?!?!?
http://buy1.snapon.com/products/diag...7A&dir=catalog

97AcuraCL

someone above said that the codes regarding this cannot be erased though… so can someone confirm that the use of the ODBII can infact erase that particular code? The recept from the dealer even stated the code and how fast the vehicle was traveling and at what RPM, so would simply erasing this code also erase that information about the speed/rpm?

MarkPinTx

I wonder if when you said "clicking noise" they thought you were referring to valve-train clicking. Valve train clicking as a result of bent valve stems or damaged valve seats could be a result of over-rev (when the pistons are traveling that fast and the valves are slinging back and forth and overshooting, they can collide, causing the aforementioned bent stems or damaged seats). Thus, if they thought you were complaining of valvetrain clicking, they might have gone first thing to the ECU to see if there was an over-rev.

About the only way you can check the condition of your valves other than by disassembling the cylinder head is with a compression test. This involves fitting a gage (through the spark plug aperture) and turning the crankshaft until the piston in the cylinder under investigation goes from BDC to TDC. Since the compression ratio of the TSX is 10.5:1, one would normally expect a pressure increase of 10.5 times. You leave the piston at TDC for a while to see if it will hold the pressure for a couple of minutes. If you get approximately 10.5:1 ratio between BDC and TDC, and the cylinder will hold the pressure, then you're probably ok w/r/to THAT cylinder. Needs to be done on all 4.

If you pass a compression test, then resetting the ECU so the over-rev doesn't show is a safe thing to do. Otherwise you run the risk of having the problems the dealer thinks you have (bent or damaged valves). Merely resetting the ECU w/o the compression test would be sort of like letting your crank case run out of oil and just filling it up and going along as if nothing happened: nice cosmetic fix, but didn't treat the underlying problem.

Good luck with it.

97AcuraCL

the compression test is a must, I agree. My only problem is confirming that that you CAN erase that code from the ECU, and finding a place that will do it.

DEVO

this is total bs on the service side. their logic is so far off base it's not funny. they would have to prove that you race your car... if the computer can tell them you over-reved, it can also tell them when... and maybe how many times. if it is once, they have no case. not to mention that a clicking noise in the tranny really has nothing (yes, they are tied together but overreving an engine does damage to the engine) to do with you overreving your engine.

rb1

Maybe. If the Acura service departments share a common database (my VW dealers do), then you might be out of luck if the first dealer has already logged your complaint and (non)-resolution per the overrev code in your engine.

Otherwise, this might very well work. Note thalso at if you don't drive the car enought between the reset and when you go to the dealer, they might be able to tell that the reset was done. There is a thing called OBD readiness (related to emissions testing) -- the computer has to log enough data for you to pass emissions (at least in other cars with OBD II). Otherwise, everyone with a check-engine light on would just reset their ECU right before getting their emissions check.

97AcuraCL

well I just spoke to my friend over at the honda dealership, I was taking it over there to get an oil change on Saturday anyway, so he's gonna reset that code on the ECU for me, and do the compression test for me so that I know for sure if there was any damage. Shortly thereafter I'm gonna take it to the acura dealership in orlando that originally serviced the problem with the gearbox that I had before, and hopefully they'll be none-the-wiser about what had happened.

Thank god, I'm starting to breathe a little easier. Like i said i'm 99% sure there wasn't any acutal damage sustained to the motor... it runs smooth and quiet, no vibrations no nothings, not smoking, nothing.... but my biggest issue was the warranty being voided by them for the over-rev... pissed me the hell off

jlukja

I agree with DEVO. What's overrevving the engine got to do with a transmission problem?

97AcuraCL

they belived that the car was raced being that it was 96mph, when I get home this evening, I will paste in here word for word what the recept said.

Micah476

I remember reading somewhere that the rev-limiter on the TSX doesn't kick in until a couple hundred RPM past the redline. I'm sure they could set the rev-limiter at the redline, but they chose not to do so.

Although it wouldn't make sense in your situation to address this particular issue, I think it's BS that they'll void a warranty for such a foreseeable occurrence that they designed into the product.

Just my $.02 on this whole thing.

kurt_bradley

I guess there are a few things I need to shed light on.

To start this off, a dealer needs more than simple freeze data from the HDS to void a warranty. A dealer is also not enabled the priviledged to void a warranty on their own. A district parts & service manager is the one that pulls the plug. He would have to be consulted by the dealer with more just a burden of proof that a vehicle has had hard use or driver error. Don't go screw around with having someone take a PGM tester to your car to clear any codes. Unless your check engine light is on, there's no malfunction to clear. Not only that, but that is what your warranty is for. If there is a specific fault code, there has to be a reason and a resolution. When it comes to what dealers get paid for labor, there is some truth to what was stated earlier to what they get for warranty vs. customer pay rates. The factory will pay back a percentage of what the CP labor rate is, but it varies store to store on a performance of the last 6 months of effective customer labor rate. In other words, this is IRRELEVANT. The amount of labor time is what makes the difference in pay. Most dealers charge and average of 1.4 to 1.6 times the flat labor time specified by Acura (being that they get payed crap for labor rate on warranty tickets). That's where they'll really make the money. As for their survey scores, throw that other comment out. SRS scores have only to do with Precision Team status, and don't really make a difference to a service managers pay from Acura's standpoint. If a dealer has their own pay plan set up with something along those lines, it's their perogative. It's not an Acura standard to pay bonuses for SRS scores.

On the topic of rev limiters: it is a mechanism that prevents over-revving from use of the accelerator under load. It will not prevent application if you downshift into the wrong gear (say you wanted to shift from 6th to 4th at 90 mph, but you hit 2nd and blow a rod through the side of your block and bend some valves) when releasing the clutch. If you are in gear, have not shifted, and are applying throttle, the rev limiter will stop the fuel delivery after the redline. It does not disengage the transmission. The transmission is driven by wheelspin for all intents and purposes. Therefore, if you drop a gear incorrectly and release the clutch, you will run the risk of blowing your engine if the engine speeds would exceed the redline in its current release point. At that point the transmission is driving the car and not the gas pedal input. The engine is not normally driven by the transmission, as we all know (it's the other way around). When this occurs, this is how an engine blows under excessive load.

If for some reason a dealer has received authorization (per a DPSM) to void a powertrain coverage of a car for a particular reason, you have to be notified and will have to sign an authorization of acceptance of the offer they are presenting to complete the repairs. At htis time of offer, you can plead your case if you want, but don't be an asshole. In other words, if you call another dealer or the Acura client services line for more assistance, it's your right. Giving them your VIN will make no difference at all. A dealer does also have the right to call another franchise and share their thoughts if they want, but that whould only make one biased. It does not mean that you can be refused service or be taken into any different consideration. My recommendation is this. Get your story VERY straight, whatever it is. Be truthful, and don't try to bullshit anyone (including me...I don't play around with my advice, so take me seriously). It will only burn you in the end (from both aspects) if you try to get cleaver. Talk to the dealer that your car has currently visited for this concern and get a full diagnostic write-up. They have to provide you that. Scan that invoice and post it on here for me to take a look at if you feel that after that you are being treated unfairly. Otherwise, call Acura client services at 800.382.2238 M-F 6am-5pm PST. Best of luck.

ks112

iamhomin is full of shit he's pulling your chain. i am tellin you the truth. And about the one hour labour quoted i think thats a bit too much. When you want to get a used car inspected by a mechanic he tests everything and that includes a compression test and the whole thing should take about an hour and a bit so the compression test itself is not very long

DEVO

ok... you don't seem to grasp the concept of overreving... in a perfect world, a rev limiter will save you from keeping your foot on the gas and destroying your engine.

if you happen to miss shift, let's say from 3rd to 2nd instead of 4th. you will overrev you engine.

kurt_bradley

I guess you guys didn't read my post huh? :p

sauceman

Kurt, many thanks for this very insightful post.

MarkPinTx

Let's really hope he doesn't get cleaver! That would suck, be messy (HELICO!) and wouldnt fix the car

97AcuraCL

You seem to really know what you are talking about so let me do my best to explain the exact situation and history of the car so that I can get your best advice…….


A while ago around 13k miles the car had an issue with the clutch plate. It would grind gears even if it was pushed in FULLY. It was taken to Fountain Acura in Orlando. They haggled and complained about the fact that clutches weren't covered although they said that the master cylinder went bad and that was probably the cause of the clutch going as well. Ever since that repair was done, when the car sits at idle it vibrates, not excessivly not a big deal, just more than I remember being normal. I dont have the time to back to the dealer, I said whatever and left it alone. It only does it when the Air-conditioning is turned on. If the AC is off and the car is sitting, it purrs like a kitten. At this time I started noticing that click on the clutch, (the problem wasn't present with the original clutch assembly) Since that I' have moved to Coral Springs florida, and yes I do drive back up to tampa central florida area, which is where this mis-shift occoured. I cringed at what happened, I know what happened, I checked the car periodically myslef, there is no burning of oil, it doesn't vibrate or hesitate anymore than it did before, it was unfortunate but it doesn't seem like there was an effect on the car. So here we are months later I'm taking it in to the dealer before I go to school to have that slight vibration checked out as well as the clutch click, thinking that its a common problem per the post in Problems/Fixes Fourm. I had totally forgotten about that over rev, theres never been a problem or anything for me to think back about that. My service manager calls me back that day when I went to pick up the car and says, the tech put the car up on the computer to see what the issue was with the vibration, they saw the code for the over rev and, he sees that the car was most likely downshifted while 'racing' beacause I was traveling at 96mph, and he made it sound like he had the ability to trace every move the car has ever made, and he knows it was raced and driven like shit since the day it left the lot. He went on to explain that since that car has that code on there, the tech did nothing else to diagnose the vibration that I feel in the car since it would no longer be covered by warranty since the vehicle has been driven 'wrecklessly' As for the clicking sound, the tech could not reproduce the sound and therefore did nothing about it. That sound is so damn pronoucable its rediculous, there is no way he could not have noticed it, I am almost sure that he saw the code and said 'oh well this one's f'ed' and left the car at that. I started to get pissed, and I explained to the tech, okay so the car was over reved, what does that have to do with the clicking? I explained that there is a 3 page thread on acura-tsx.com with this being a known problem. He said again that since there was a over-rev code on the computer the car was raced and it wouldn't matter. I told him again that the problem probably lies within the clutch assembly (from what I read in problems/fixes). At that point he put me on hold, supposedly to go and speak to the tech. When he comes back, he says that the tech was just backing the car out of the shop and heard the clicking sound. The tech hears it only on the clutch so he belives its probably just the clutch and since acura does not warranty the clutch, I would have to pay if I wanted it replaced. I explained the clutch isn't burnt, you barely depress teh cluch a half an inch and it allows you to change the gear, the problem isn't with the clutch alone. He said well with that over-rev code and the fact that the problem seeems to be in the clutch there is nothing we can do for you and have it be covered by the warranty. I said this is a brand new car, yes it was over-reved that one time but there is nothing that suggests that this problem was caused by that over-reved instance. He said well if you'd like you can speak to my manager, I said I would, I was then told he was unavailable. (this was around 6PM and service was just about to close) He wouldn't give me a loaner so that they could further look at the car and I dont have another vehicle to use, I came after hours to pick it up from the only person that was availiable, the receptionist.


So that’s the full story, he basically was telling me that they won't even look at the car beacuese of the over-rev, it doesn't matter what the hell it is, so long as that over rev code is in there. I'm screwed.



I'm disecting that last paragraph of yours to try to figure out my best course of action…

On one hand, I can get my friend to clear that record of over-rev, get the compression test done to make sure there wasn't any real damage, and then try my luck at a different dealership.

On the other hand I can go back to Rick Case acura, and request a full diagnostic write-up. Here are my questions pertaining to that, how much would something like that cost? I'm 19 years old, I barely have rent money lol. The car has a DVD/Screen in the front under the headunit in that bin, and 19" rims on it, and a University of South Florida window sticker on the back with a USF Parking Hanger from the mirror. All of that I'm sure doesn't help my case. Yes I mean I do drive the car hard, but damn it thats what it was made for, I dont dog it out redline it at every chance, but anyone with a 6pd on this board has redlined in acceleration at least a couple of times, I would think that its normal. And being that its honda, its so damn fun/addicting that I know its common. That’s why I'm so freaked out about losing this warranty coverage, I bought a new car to have that protection. If the car started smoking or there really is a valve problem I'd have to own up to my own mistake. But the car seems to be running fine, and that compression test will hopefully confirm that.

Another option along with going back to Rick Case Acura, Mr. Case himself leaves his personal extention and e-mail address on the answering service. I've had friends that have called him personally before and he has responded and has helped, should I consider escallating the problem to him? Problem is I didn't actually buy the car at Rick Case Acura, I just took it there for the service, so I'm not sure if he'll just tell me to go you know where.

Mr. Bradley, this is the full story, there is no being clever here, I'd really appreciate any suggestions you might have. Thanks a million in advance...

rb1

Drive the car at least 30 miles or so after the reset (not necessarily all at once). Otherwise, they CAN tell if the ECU is reset if they look for it. Easiest thing would be to have reset done and then use the car normally for a few days to accumulate the miles to reset the OBD readiness indicators, then take it in.

kurt_bradley

"He said to me in a manner that was then becoming rude, that there is a over-rev on the ecu, and the problem is with the clutch which isn't covered under warranty, there is nothing I can do for you unless you would like to pay for the damages."

This part is BS. They are in no position to say that. They would have had to inspect the clutch to see visible abuse before they can state that the clutch is damaged and wouldn't be covered. Not only that, but an over-rev has pretty much nothing to do with the clutch making noise. They can't make you pay for damage that isn't revealed and is pretty much a speculation. That seems fishy. Like I mentioned before, do NOT go get that code cleared at something toerh than an Acura dealer (are you listenting to me yet?) If you go to another dealer with a claim that could be covered under warranty (which if what you're saying is completely true and you're not leaving anything out, it should be), they should not charge you diagnostic fees. That's what a warranty claim starts as: a diagnosis of a complaint. Basically, you need to call client services and get them started on this one for you. They'll get the ball rolling properly. Their advice is pretty solid once they've heard the whole story. I, obviously, can't make their judgement for them, being that you're in Florida (most of the reason). In other words, get on the phone. Once again, DO NOT GET THAT CEL CLEARED BY ANYONE THAT IS NOT AN ACURA DEALER. That may have more than just a stored fault code. It may have other temporary fault codes stored additionally. Let me know how this goes after you talk to client services.

97AcuraCL

Kurt I edited my post above to add some additional information, nothing left out... just more details... please re-read it if you have a moment, and let me know if you have any further suggestions... thanks in advance.

jlukja

97AcuraCL,

Kurt has been straight up on his posts here. Listen to him. If you decide to mess with the ECU Acura won't be able to help you because there is no telling what information was stored and cleared and for all intents and purposes in Acura's eyes you will have raced the car ever since you bought it.

97AcuraCL

This service guy just made it so clear to me, gave me the impression that no matter what, the fact that that over-rev is in there... means I'm f'ed totally the car was raced, no more no less thats ur problem.

So thats whats making me consider going the back route; I'm scared to go to Acura themself beacuse if they get involved and tell me the same thing 'u raced it ur screwed' I AM screwed, if I get it erased before anyone is the wiser, I might have a chance to get this taken care of so that no one gives me any shit about the safety of my warranty...

Kurt, you knwo what your doing, if you tell me to go through acura first, I will do so.

sauceman

Definitely listen to what Kurt is telling you, he is a service manager (I believe) at an Acura dealership.

If you just give the hint of coming by as dishonest to them, you are bringing your chances to nil of getting the situation straightened out, so don't miss your chance, there may be none other.

97AcuraCL

Alright I hope I'm not screwing myself, so the general consenus is going straight back to the dealership, getting that full diagnostic report? or, going straight to Acura's Customer Service number that Kurt Provided, and then go back to the dealer? Or should I give Mr. Rick Case a call himself?

sauceman

Do exactly what Kurt's telling you. It's the best advice you'll be getting.

97AcuraCL

LoL Thats what I'm unclear on, should I do the service thing first and get the full diagnostic done? Or should I call Acura first?

sauceman

What I'm reading is that if nothing works with the dealer, then call Acura Client Services.

97AcuraCL

Alright I'll be making an appointment with gooood ol' Kyle.

97AcuraCL

I'm still getting an oil change done at the honda dealer this weekend, would it be safe to get a compression test done while I'm there? The reason I wanted that done there is because I get an employee discount at that honda dealer. As long as I dont let them touch the ECU, I should be okay with taking it there for just an oil change and compression test, right?

DoCoMo

Hello,

My black TSX is running like a charm, and recently on the freeway I inadvertently drove it for about 10 miles on D3 between 70-80mph (I was going uphill (put it on "D3" and then merge onto a main freeway, but forgot to put it back on "D"). I could hear the engine making a slightly louder roar, and that what gave me a hint on my unintentional gear engagement. Can anybody tell me how "badly" this can ruin the transmission?

thanks,

I just love this car !!

Micah476

Re my earlier post about the rev-limiter...I started thinking about it later and realized that, unless the rev-limiter either shut the engine off or disengaged the tranny, then there's no way it will save the engine from overrevving due to a misshift...my bad, and I apologize to everyone who was dumber for having read my post.

MarkPinTx

I dont think an AT will let you over-rev. Unless something is pretty wrong with it.

What you describe doesnt sound like a problem for the tranny either. I suppose if you continuously kept it in too low a gear, it might overheat.

slo007