gsclifton

iTrader: (2)

Ok boys and girls ...

I had been hearing a faint clunk for a few days and the car had not been handling right. I finally had the time today to investigate today after work.

This is what I found (see pics.) The right side (passenger) sway bar mount is broken. I have had the Comptech sway on for about 2.5 years and the ESP bushings on for about 15 months.





moda_way - Can you tell me if the entire part that is broken is available for replacement using your online part number sources? I did not have time to completely jack up the car, so I could not really tell if the part unbolts from the car or is welded on permanently.

Or should I just have the broken areas welded?

I do not think the dealer is going to accept this as a warranty issue since I changed out the OEM sway with the Comptech sway.

Suggestions?

Lone Starr

still have your OEM one to put back?

kangjin

ohh, that sucks...

did you feel a difference in your right-hand turns vs left-hand turns?

JTso

iTrader: (2)

I have always supspected that area will break with a larger bar. It doesn't look like a difficult welding fix if replacement part is not available. I would recommend adding additional reinforcement during the welding to strengthen that area.

subdued

clifton,
that really SUCKS!!! Hope you can get it sorted out.

I am curious about your driving habits.
....on a 1-10 scale. 10= very aggressive,
how would you rate how you have driven your TSX?

gsclifton

iTrader: (2)

Yes, I still have the OEM bar. I am not going to try a warranty fix though. I am sure the install of the larger bar caused this problem and not a defect.


There is a definite handling difference. I am just taking it real easy until I get it welded. The clunking noise is annoying.


That was my first inclination. I am going to try and get it welded today a lunch and the other side reinforced.

My driving style is mixed. This is my primary vehicle and is driven everyday. I would say 75% of my driving is 5 or under. The remaining 25% is 7-10 on the aggressive side, but I don’t think I really push the car all that much.

The DFW area has a lot of rough pavement in areas. I wonder if that bump and grind of the highway contributed to the failure. I really think the mounts are just too weak as JTso pointed out for the larger bar.

moda_way

holy shyt. I'm looking in the catalog now, but I'm pretty sure its going to need to be welded.



EDIT: Yep, it will need to be welded.

jwood_06TSX

Dude, before i put on my comptech rear sway bar and intake, i asked the dealership if i installed them myself and even bought them from somewhere else if it would void the warranty and the service guy told me that no comptech voids warranties. All comptech parts do not void the warranty and my dealership even sells comptech there they just don't install them (not sure why though). I even called up about the aspec suspension and i asked them if i installed it myself would i need them to check it and he said no, you won't void the warranty since its an Acura product. I would try and talk to your dealership first and at least see what they say before you go welding things. I mean i don't know how much that part is worth so it might change things, but i would at least try and ask them!! However, you have a ton of other mods, so that might screw you anyway......

EDIT: Just saw Ryan's post saying it will have to be welded.....that means it def can't hurt to at least ask the dealership about warranty since mine told me it would be covered.....

gsclifton

iTrader: (2)

^^

I had actually given this some thought. I guess it will depend on how my dealer views Comptech parts and a self install.

moda_way

Well, I guess I'll be doing some visual inspection this weekend.

GS, didn't you bust up your TypeII brace too? Any way that could have weakened that area too?

PJS

The Comptech sway bar is what? 30 odd % stiffer than stock?
Assuming this is so, then I'd definitely be pulling Acura on it, since it's a very fine margin they've left themselves in the designing of that part.

moda_way

The bar is 1.46 times bigger. (15mm -> 22mm)

This frame and suspension is a derivative of the Accord and I don't recall that one having this issue. So it is either a defect in engineering or manufacturing or something specific to use.

gsclifton

iTrader: (2)

Just exactly what are you implying?

I have a call into my SA at the local dealership. Since they could never fix my horn problem, I am not the most popular client at service.

poltergeist

The rear suspension subframe is a bolted-in replaceable part...but it's a rather big job to replace. I'd think you'd be better to have the mount welded back together with gussets to strengthen it.

A dealer might agree to warranty this at their own risk of getting the claim kicked back by Acura. In my experience there's no way an Acura DSM would approve this as a warrantable repair, knowing that a stiffer aftermarket sway bar was used.

Tsx536

I saw videos on YouTube of GsClifton doing donuts in his TSX


Seriously, that sucks man. I think a reweld would fix it right up though.

PJS

The thickness of the bar could be an issue, but I think the stiffness of the bigger one exerts only a little (relatively) extra strain on the area, that it should be considered a defective part in this case.
Otherwise, we'd have heard long before now of other RSB's doing the same damage, and I'm guessing Swift, H&R, Progress, Comptech, etc have all put considerable time into R&D'ing the strength of the mounts.
I'm sure the Japanese companies would have direct technical channels into Honda, and the numbers calculated before beginning to produce various prototypes and testing them on circuits.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

The larger bar exerts huge amount of strain on the mounting points. The amount of strain increases when replacing the rubber D bushings with poly bushings, solid bushings, or endlinks. The TSX comes with solid endlinks and by upgrading the D bushings to poly like most people have, it leaves very little flexing room to absorb the stress on the mounting points. it's not if it will break. It's when. Some manufactures have recognized this problem and ship reinforced plates or brackets for their larger bars. Neuspeed and Comptech have such reinforcement bracket for certain Honda cars. I believe vwong also has a swaybar that comes with heavy brackets.

PJS

If that's so, then I stand corrected.

subdued

I wonder what Kensai Racing and i-MOTO Racing's TSX's use for RSB setups and reinforcement?

aaronng

It's 363% stiffer than stock if you go from 15 to 22mm and both bars use the same material.

PJS

How do you work that out? The shape of the bar will dictate matters as well.
In all honesty, I don't see the Comptech being that much stiffer, maybe 150%, which translates to 1.5x stiffer.
When I wrote that, I was thinking of the Swift ones for the CL7, which its rear is 132% - so typo and not fully appreciating the %age term stated.
A bit more research shows the Swift to be 15mm apparently.
So, 22mm starts to look like you may not be far wrong.

Looks like I may be way out on just how much additional stress and stiffer the Comptech unit is creating.

Chris_F

guys i suggest you havea look at this pdf

http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/010barup.pdf

small incriments in diametre have a huge affect on stiffness

Still Water

^^^ I agree... When you take into account the greater stiffness under load taking a sudden hit or "shock", there is less inherent residual flex left to take the shock. Given certain conditions, something’s got to give.

I have in the past broken more than a few suspension parts and in hindsight I could most probably guess when & how I broke them. It comes with the territory.
I always thought on the TSX it would be the end link that broke first. Go figure.

aaronng

That's whiteline's quote on 2 sway bars, both with the same shape and material.

gsclifton

iTrader: (2)

UPDATE

This is regodamndickulous

Acura said without a doubt, not a warranty issue
Muffler/Welding Shop #1 no longer in business
Car Repair Shop #1 said they would not touch it
Car Repair Shop #2 said their "wire" welder was not hot enough for the repair
Muffler/Welding Shop #2 said to take it to a body shop or someone with a MIG welder

Comments ... suggestions ... profound statements?

I think I am just going to take the sway bar off and ditch it in the back yard. I do not think I even really need it.

aaronng

Why would you go for anything less than MIG in this case?

jlukja

comment .... Shit!!

moda_way

Find a body shop and have them MIG it.

gsclifton

iTrader: (2)

I called the dealership again and they said without a doubt, since it was self install, they would absolutely not warranty it. He said they would have no warranty problem if I could prove any Acura dealership installed the part. My problem with this is Acura would have wanted the cost of the bar plus some to install. Also, how in the hell could you f-up a sway bar install?

I called Comptech. They had never heard of a failure like this. They suggested going back to the OEM bar and trying another dealership. He also asked me to send the pictures to engineering.

I have called several places, and I cannot find someone with a MIG welder and a lift.

gsclifton

iTrader: (2)

I have called 2 and both said they only tack and TIG that MIG is custom WTF. I am not a welder.

Calling some more places.

Moda - are you sure I cannot replace the broken part or is that welded to the sub frame?

JTso

iTrader: (2)

Damn, that's total BS! Both TIG and MIG will do just fine for that particular repair. If a lift is not available, then MIG being easier as the feed is controlled by the trigger on the torch. You can just lay on your back and weld. TIG will work as well if a hand switch is installed on the torch. Most places use MIG as it's easier to work with and doesn't require as much skill as TIG. Artists prefer TIG.

moda_way

You might want to look at a place that installs roll cages. They would have some excellent welders.

Let's put it this, as far as the catalog showed, it looks to be part of an assembly. I'll see what else I can find.

gsclifton

iTrader: (2)

^^
What is the "assembly" part number. I cannot find it at sunnyside

One tuner shop said about $100 to weld it, but said it would fail again most likely. He said I should reinforce the area, but that would be fabrication work and costly.

So ... do I let someone weld it up and hope it stays, or put back to OEM and try another dealer? Wow, what a hassle for a $99 part!

EDIT
NM ... I found the part # 50300-SEA-E00

moda_way

Yep, the Rear Subframe part. That is the one I was talking about.

kyotousa

man....this is crazy......swaybar improvement is great tho...

jwood_06TSX

That is the exact part on my car that got sheared due to the Ingalls camber kit when i got hit in my accident. They had to replace that part and after all was said and done, they didn't put it back together all that properly. I traded in the car before i found out what was really wrong, but something they did did NOT look right. There is a ton of things that bolt up to that sub frame piece. Ryan probably knows more about it, but the cheapest i found that part was for $534. The body shop said they were going to try and weld it if i was paying for it, but they replaced it since insurance was going to pay for it all.

I'll see if i can find the picture of it as well, but it sheared very similar to that, just from a different, more direct impact, not a slow fatigue break.

poltergeist

Nice....so Comptech is encouraging you to commit fraud. Now I know one company I'll never deal with.

IneedaTSX

Did the knocking come and go, or was it all the time?

My TSX has been knocking for the longest time, I have a sway bar also. I have checked everything under my car, but never even thought to check the sway mount....I wonder if mine could be broken too.

gsclifton

iTrader: (2)

It just started knocking one day. I am going to have a welder take a crack at fixing the mount this weekend.

IneedaTSX

I mean, once you started hearing the knocking, did you hear it all the time? Or where there some days that it did not occur.

The knocking on my car seems to come and go. I'm gunna try to get under there after work.