Aligment Problem with EURO R and TSX
06-30-2004, 05:26 AM
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Aligment Problem with EURO R and TSX
I notice that this had few member that had problems with their aligment where it drift to the left. My accord EURO R has the same problem but it actually drift to the right. Two of friend who also have EURO R, has the same problem that i have. Now this lead me to think that has to do with the design of the car. I dont mean that honda intended to make the car to drift on either side, but maybe and error on the sterring shaft or someting??
Remenber that TSX is a left hand drive where our is right hand drive. Maybe it has to do with the different lenght of the two turning shaft??
Remenber that TSX is a left hand drive where our is right hand drive. Maybe it has to do with the different lenght of the two turning shaft??
06-30-2004, 06:27 AM
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I thought it simply had to do with incline of the pavement causing the car to simply try and slip downwards to the right or left, depending on the side you drive. Here in my area we have to deal with this, as well as monstrous ruts on the highways and freeways, either because of bad maintenance or too heavy trucks circulating here.
BTW, where do you live?
BTW, where do you live?
06-30-2004, 11:16 AM
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I had this issue with the car pulling on to the left. Believe me, it's not a road condition on my TSX. I just met with the field rep yesterday and he confirms the drift. This is the fourth time they are attemping to fix it. I informed them that next step will be a lemon lawsuite. This sucks, cuase i only had the car for a month and this started the day i took it off the lot.
06-30-2004, 11:57 AM
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Does the car drift or pull? There is a difference. Supposely Acura made the "dift" after a few seconds if you let go of the steering wheel. It was built into the car as a saftey precaution just in case you fell asleep behind the wheel. If the car "pulls" left or right with your hands on the steering at 12 o'clock than there is an alignment problem.
06-30-2004, 05:16 PM
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well it can be fixed. I talked to some guys at the acura dealership about this too. I remember that they had to something, i dont recall what though. Maybe you should call other acura dealerships. You can test drive all Honda's car and you'll see the same thing. Why would you leave your hands off the steering wheel for an extend amount of time tho?
btw....it isnt a simple alignment fix. I remember that much.
btw....it isnt a simple alignment fix. I remember that much.
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06-30-2004, 06:39 PM
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Is it possible that it is a downside of the factory-spec 1° of camber on the alignment, causing it to be easier to steer, but a tad more unstable at speed?
06-30-2004, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by tuan209
well it can be fixed. I talked to some guys at the acura dealership about this too. I remember that they had to something, i dont recall what though. Maybe you should call other acura dealerships. You can test drive all Honda's car and you'll see the same thing. Why would you leave your hands off the steering wheel for an extend amount of time tho?
btw....it isnt a simple alignment fix. I remember that much.
btw....it isnt a simple alignment fix. I remember that much.
go straight. How do you test if the car drifts or not? I've been through five honda's within 7 years. None of them drifts like this.
They better fix it...
07-01-2004, 09:09 AM
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In my situtation, I see this alignment "issue" more as a characteristic of the TSX rather than a problem. I think?
I've noticed the "drift" towards the curb (my right) that everyone has pointed out (for me its more of a drift rather than a pull).
I attributed this to the crown in the road more than anything else. I tested this theory out by driving extensively on the wrong side of the road (on back/country roads). Sure enough, I got a drift to my left.
My conclusion is that there's no problem. Its just the way the TSX is.
However, what I am alarmed at it how easy it does this especially in comparison to Integras, RSXs and other Hondas I have driven. My perference is for a more dead-on center feel with a heavier wheel. I almost find, dare I say it, the steering on the TSX a little "nervous" requiring frequent small adjustments.
Just my thoughts...
I've noticed the "drift" towards the curb (my right) that everyone has pointed out (for me its more of a drift rather than a pull).
I attributed this to the crown in the road more than anything else. I tested this theory out by driving extensively on the wrong side of the road (on back/country roads). Sure enough, I got a drift to my left.
My conclusion is that there's no problem. Its just the way the TSX is.
However, what I am alarmed at it how easy it does this especially in comparison to Integras, RSXs and other Hondas I have driven. My perference is for a more dead-on center feel with a heavier wheel. I almost find, dare I say it, the steering on the TSX a little "nervous" requiring frequent small adjustments.
Just my thoughts...
07-01-2004, 12:29 PM
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Touchy Steering/Also a Toe-in problem
My TSX has pulled to the left since I've owned it (since last Nov.) In general, the TSX has very quick/tight steering that forces you to constantly adjust when driving down the highway- that is normal. Extreme pulling to one side or the other is not. It's almost impossible to find a dealership with the TSX's specs in their alignment computers even with the car being out a full year now. I took mine in (under warranty) to a local L.A. dealership in Jan to have it adjusted, but without computer specs they "did the old fashioned way" (their words...) After getting it back it was worse. Just this morning I took my TSX into Keyes Acura in Van Nuys (Los Angeles area) as they have gone the extra mile to manually input and set up TSX alignment specs in their computer. When it was done I got the usual print out showing the specified tolerance ranges, what my car was before, and what my car was after they fixed it. Needless to say 3 of my wheels were out of alignment (rear left was in spec), with the front left being way off- hence why it pulled to the left. It now tracks pretty straight, but again, it's so touchy that with any slight negative or positive crown in the road the TSX will most definitely drift a little...
07-01-2004, 10:41 PM
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I'll have to check that out
Originally Posted by sauceman
The specs pf the alignment are written in the driver's manual.
07-02-2004, 10:29 AM
#15
I posted the alignment specifications for the TSX in a previous note in another thread of this forum. Do a search of my name and you should find it if you are interested. The alignment specifications for the TSX are pretty tight. I have found the specs identified in dealer alignment machines and hence printouts from them are looser than the actual specs.
07-02-2004, 11:05 AM
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Let's get to the bottom of this:
Originally Posted by vollum
2004 TSX Alignment Specifications:
1. Front Camber...Nominal = 0.00 degrees...Minimum = -0.45 degrees...Maximum = +0.45 degrees...Maximum Difference between Left and Right Camber = 0.45 degrees.
2. Front Caster....Nominal = 3.13 degrees...Minimum = 2.68 degrees...Maximum = 3.58 degrees....Maximum differece between Left and Right Caster = 0.45 degrees.
3. Front Toe...Nominal = 0.00 inches...Minimum = -1/16 inch...Maximum = +1/16 inch....Total Toe (left and right)...Nominal = 0.00 millemeters/inches....Minimum = -2 milllimeters or -.08inches...Maximum = +2 millimeters or +0.08 inches.
4. Rear Camber...Nominal = -1.00 degrees...Minimum = -1.30 degrees...Maximum = -0.70 degrees...Maximum difference between Left and Right Camber = 0.45 degrees.
5. Rear Toe...Nominal = +1/16 inch...Minimum = 0.00....Maximum = +1/8 inch....Total Toe (left and right)...Nominal = +2 Millimeters or +.08 inches....Minimum = 0.00...Maximum = +4Millimeters or +.16 inches.
Of these only toe is adjustible on the TSX. The manual states that if either Caster or Camber are out of specification "check for damaged or bent suspension components."
These if one more alignment specification which is called the "Front Wheel Turning Angle". I don't understand this very well but for what it is worth the specification is as follows:
1. Inside Wheel...Nominal = 35.15 degrees....Minimum = 33.15 degrees....Maximum = 37.15 degrees.
2. Outside Wheel....29.38 degrees (Reference)
Turning angle is also not adjustible on the TSX and if it is out of specification the manual says check for bent or damaged suspension components.
1. Front Camber...Nominal = 0.00 degrees...Minimum = -0.45 degrees...Maximum = +0.45 degrees...Maximum Difference between Left and Right Camber = 0.45 degrees.
2. Front Caster....Nominal = 3.13 degrees...Minimum = 2.68 degrees...Maximum = 3.58 degrees....Maximum differece between Left and Right Caster = 0.45 degrees.
3. Front Toe...Nominal = 0.00 inches...Minimum = -1/16 inch...Maximum = +1/16 inch....Total Toe (left and right)...Nominal = 0.00 millemeters/inches....Minimum = -2 milllimeters or -.08inches...Maximum = +2 millimeters or +0.08 inches.
4. Rear Camber...Nominal = -1.00 degrees...Minimum = -1.30 degrees...Maximum = -0.70 degrees...Maximum difference between Left and Right Camber = 0.45 degrees.
5. Rear Toe...Nominal = +1/16 inch...Minimum = 0.00....Maximum = +1/8 inch....Total Toe (left and right)...Nominal = +2 Millimeters or +.08 inches....Minimum = 0.00...Maximum = +4Millimeters or +.16 inches.
Of these only toe is adjustible on the TSX. The manual states that if either Caster or Camber are out of specification "check for damaged or bent suspension components."
These if one more alignment specification which is called the "Front Wheel Turning Angle". I don't understand this very well but for what it is worth the specification is as follows:
1. Inside Wheel...Nominal = 35.15 degrees....Minimum = 33.15 degrees....Maximum = 37.15 degrees.
2. Outside Wheel....29.38 degrees (Reference)
Turning angle is also not adjustible on the TSX and if it is out of specification the manual says check for bent or damaged suspension components.
07-02-2004, 11:12 AM
#18
Originally Posted by vollum
I posted the alignment specifications for the TSX in a previous note in another thread of this forum. Do a search of my name and you should find it if you are interested. The alignment specifications for the TSX are pretty tight. I have found the specs identified in dealer alignment machines and hence printouts from them are looser than the actual specs.
07-02-2004, 11:35 AM
#19
Since I wrote this note I have found there apparently are ways to slightly adjust the caster and camber on the front as well as the camber on the rear. I don't know exactly what all is involved, but I believe it has to do with moving the front and rear subframes. The alignment of my TSX is finally very very close to being totally within specs. Only the right rear camber and the rear left/right camber difference are slightly outside of spec...Left Rear Camber is -0.9 degrees and Right Rear Camber is at -1.4 degrees. Originally the right rear camber was at -2.0 degrees. However, they did end up replacing three of the five control arms which attach the right rear wheel to the frame and subframe. The car handles and feels much much better than it did when I first got it. And, as long as it holds the current alignment, the way it handles/feels is acceptable to me. The front camber difference is only 0.2 degrees (it was originally 0.6 degrees) so the car no longer has a pronounced drift to the left. And, they were able to put a little more caster on my left front wheel which made the steering wheel feel more firm.
07-02-2004, 11:42 AM
#20
Originally Posted by JTso
Please clarify what you mean by TSX alignment spec being "pretty tight" and the dealer machine being "looser" than the actual specs.
07-02-2004, 12:23 PM
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Found Your Specs
My printout had a ton of other specs- I'm guessing yours did too, but you just mentioned the main ones in question in that thread? Your car was out a little worse than mine was (my culprit appeared to be a slight bit of positive toe in on the left front as well.)
Where did you get information on the "acutal specs" that leads you to believe the specs dealers are using is looser?
Originally Posted by vollum
I have found the specs identified in dealer alignment machines and hence printouts from them are looser than the actual specs.
07-02-2004, 12:31 PM
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All this new info popped up while I was writing my last post- so forget what I said...
That's pretty nice of them to replace so many control arms for your alignment problem. Rear camber is easily adjusted by shimming, but front it's either replace bent or damaged control arms or buy a aftermarket kit. Caster is a whole other story- I believe that can only be remedied by replacing bent parts... If I'm wrong please let me know.
That's pretty nice of them to replace so many control arms for your alignment problem. Rear camber is easily adjusted by shimming, but front it's either replace bent or damaged control arms or buy a aftermarket kit. Caster is a whole other story- I believe that can only be remedied by replacing bent parts... If I'm wrong please let me know.
07-02-2004, 12:38 PM
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Sad Thing Is
With those tight tolerances and the sensitive steering of our car, you hit a couple good potholes, ride over traintracks everyday, or bang the curb parking a few times, and it's all out of whack all over again...
Question sauceman: I'm guessing you got those specs from the TSX shop manual? How much did you pay for that? Did you order it from the little postcard in your owner's manual? My dad used to work at AHM and could get those things (and lots of other fun stuff) for free- I miss those days...
Question sauceman: I'm guessing you got those specs from the TSX shop manual? How much did you pay for that? Did you order it from the little postcard in your owner's manual? My dad used to work at AHM and could get those things (and lots of other fun stuff) for free- I miss those days...
07-02-2004, 12:41 PM
#24
Originally Posted by ryanc44
My printout had a ton of other specs- I'm guessing yours did too, but you just mentioned the main ones in question in that thread? Your car was out a little worse than mine was (my culprit appeared to be a slight bit of positive toe in on the left front as well.)
Where did you get information on the "acutal specs" that leads you to believe the specs dealers are using is looser?
Where did you get information on the "acutal specs" that leads you to believe the specs dealers are using is looser?
07-02-2004, 07:59 PM
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Well, today i got a call from the service department. They could not figure out why the car will drift, but agrees with me that its not an alignment issue. They aligned it twice and even place four new tires. This is the fourth time they attempt to fix it. So the field rep. called me afterwards and said they are taking the car back. So, I have the option to pick up another Tsx or my money back. So, i'm deciding what i should do. 
I'm glad Acura did this. I've been a loyal customer for a long time.
I'm glad Acura did this. I've been a loyal customer for a long time.
07-03-2004, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ryanc44
With those tight tolerances and the sensitive steering of our car, you hit a couple good potholes, ride over traintracks everyday, or bang the curb parking a few times, and it's all out of whack all over again...
Question sauceman: I'm guessing you got those specs from the TSX shop manual? How much did you pay for that? Did you order it from the little postcard in your owner's manual? My dad used to work at AHM and could get those things (and lots of other fun stuff) for free- I miss those days...
Question sauceman: I'm guessing you got those specs from the TSX shop manual? How much did you pay for that? Did you order it from the little postcard in your owner's manual? My dad used to work at AHM and could get those things (and lots of other fun stuff) for free- I miss those days...
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