Zasker1

I have been discussing this with Unorthodox Racing and it looks like a SS kit will be forthcomming. Based on my research in the RSX and Accord forms this seems to be a good buy as the gains are similar to what is seen with the addition of a CAI. Not sure if UR will provide dyno numbers or not but is anybody else intrested in this?




Segment of my conversation with UR:
You are correct, the RSX pulley will fit on the TSX but we are still waiting to collect the data in regards to the sustained voltage required for normal operation. The kit must be used in a complete set to maintain proper function of the accessories. We will have more information with in the next month, which will give you the answer you are looking for.

Dan Martin

I'm not a big fan of the whole underdrive pulley idea. I value my A/C, power steering, and alternator.

Zasker1

That is why UR test to see what the required sustained voltage is before kits are released. My only concern would be the alternator as I run a heavy draw with my Amps but that could be fixed with a CAP.

sauceman

Don't expect so much gains. Yes there are some, but they are not, or very barely noticeable. And you will notice, much like a flywheel, mostly a rev-happier engine, better transmition of torque but little to no hp gains.

But of all the mods I made on my previous Accord, the UR pulley set was one of the best mods, after the flywheel. No sacrifices (not supposed to be: if you have problems with electrical system, it means your pulley set is ), just improvement.

UR is a little costly for the bang though.

Zasker1

I am plannning on installing an Injen CAI and DC Header this weekend or next. Exhaust seems to be a waist on the TSX from the dyno's I have seen so the UR seems the next logical choice

dzuy

so do i.

i can't for someone to make cams and hondata. those will be my next two mods, if any.

:troutslap

loxllxol

Wow, that's the exact opposite from my experience with UR. I had a set of my previous car and I gained 19 whp on the dyno.

~20 hp for $300 is a GREAT VALUE I think!

Hopefully the gains are similar in the TSX. UR makes great quality pullies. Way better than AEM or any other company out there.

xizor

if it wouldn't interfere w/ DBW, AC, etc. I'd think about getting it. I'm always happy to rev more

sauceman

What car did you have?

BTW, I forgot to say, I decided not to use the crank pulley, as I would have lost the harmonic dampener, and had heard too many accounts of people who had cracked or downright broken their crankshafts after time. It wasn't a risk I was ready to take, given the mileage I travel.

dzuy

i know. i never heard of a car gaining 19hp to the wheels.

he had an accord v6 before- if that's the same car he's talking about is beyond me.

Stokeless_TSX

The most I have heard someone gaining with a pulley kit is 7 whp. I'd try it if i didnt lose harmonic balancer.

loxllxol

98 ACCORD V6 [STOCK VS. UR PULLIES ONLY (no other mods besides pullies)]

Here we go. You guys satisfied now? UR Pullies are definitely worth the money if you're in it for performance.

sauceman

Nevertheless, you don't expect that kind of gains with a 4 cyl, far from it.

I remember seeing a Mustang dyno with that mod, and even a Mustang didn't exceed 5 whp gain.

There really is something fishy with that dyno.

dagigu

that's definitely a majic dyno chart...

ClutchPerformer

Were your stock pullies made out of lead?

Dan Martin

What is the total power drain for all the accessories driven by the engine? 20hp seems way too high for just slowing down the speed that they run at. I think you'd need to remove accessories to be able to save that kind of power.

sauceman

Oh that's it!

They didn't put the belts back on before the Dyno run!

loxllxol

If you've ever held your OEM pullies (esp the crank pulley) which are heavy as hell. I think they're made out of iron...then compare it to the ultra light weight UR pullies there's a HUGE difference.

And guys, I don't work for UR, nor am I sponsored by them. I'm just giving your factual evidence from my experience. I have absolutely nothing to gain by telling you guys what my car (and others as well) have dynoed.

The difference really is like night and day. I was skeptical at first as well, but as soon as I installed the pullies, there was no doubt in my mind! Hey, when I first read about the comptech sway bar, I was SKEPTICAL that a lil bitty old bar can change the driving characteristics so much, but again, I was wrong! The sway bar works great, and if the same gains are similar in the TSX as they were in the Accord V6, then you guys will believe me.

sauceman

No they won't be, they haven't been in my F22B1 Accord a few years ago, no reason why they should be significantly better on the TSX now.

I swear, you ran that dyno beltless.

Zasker1

Best way to prove this, when I buy this part, I will dyno my car before and after the install, so this may have to wait till April ~~~

PixelHarmony

I don't really understand how getting pulleys can affect the A/C, Alternatior, etc... I don't really know much about swapping pulley and gaining performance, but I don't see how just changing them can effect the other units the belt and pulley are attached to.

Zasker1

The effects them as the pully wheels are typicaly smaller thus they turn slower. So for teh Alternatior at idle you are not sustaninging the same voltage to your electrical system as stock. (Not a problem while driving). Likewise for the AC system is being under driven as well, agian this is realy more of an issue at idle.
I am not so worried about eh A/C, or power steering but the Alternatior could be a problem as I have an upgraded stereo system thus I am drawing more current.

ClutchPerformer

If they're smaller.... wouldn't they turn faster?

sauceman

Yeah, he got it wrong. It's the other way around. Accessory pullies are larger diameter, and crank pulley is smaller diameter, resulting in a substantial underdrive.

They are usually cnc manufactured out of billet aluminum

A typical alternator pulley weighs > 400grams, and power steering pulley > 250 grams.

Big gains are to be made with the crank pulley, but with big risks too.

ClutchPerformer

That makes sense. Thanks.

What are the risks with the crank pulley? Isn't this similar to doing a flywheel mod?

sauceman

No. For some reason (and I'm not sure I get why) The crankshaft is only dampened on one end.Maybe it is because the FW, Clutch and transmition represent so much more mass that it is naturally dampenned with the centrifugal forces of all that rotating mass.

If you change crank pulleys, you positively need to know that you keep your OEM harmonic dampeners, because the "noise" from the internals will end up causing the crank to wear prematurely.

But then again, small 4 cylinders like D16s don't need harmonic dampeners.

It is similar though as the flywheel mod in that it will remove significant rotating mass, but it will also help underdrive the accessories: Accessories turning slower per RPM means less effort to make them turn = Torque and Hp gains!

Zasker1

Yes I am a retard sauceman, I had the sizing backwards.

Zasker1

Update from UR:

I got confirmation this morning from Brice at Alamo that everything checks out as per our standards. I'm awaiting dyno graphs from Brice and they will be posted shortly after the new web-page goes up later this week.


When the Dyno is available, I will post.

BlackTSX

very eager to see this...keep up updated!!!

JTso

iTrader: (2)

Make sure to do a before and after dyno.

loxllxol

Any update on this?

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

I am not in any way refuting your opinion on this matter but this so called harmonic dampener and premature wear on the crank is a theory and a theory ONLY! It has never been proven and there are sundry cars with the UR crank pulleys and UR lightweight pulleys on their car that have never suffered from this supposed premature wear. You can believe it and that is fine but don't state it as a fact b/c there are people who are new to the import scene who will take your word as fact when it is really not factual. There is no evidence of this claim. If anyone has any further questions about UR pulleys please PM me as I am a dealer for UR. And if anyone is in need of a Ultra SS set let me know.

Josh
Excelerate LLC

sauceman

Josh, I'm sorry, but when there are so many accounts of broken cranshafts after having installed the pulley, cannot ignore those occurances. Crankshafts just don't break for the fun of it. This thread was pretty revealing to me: http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=319189

When there are so many accounts of failures that all seem to be pointing to that particular part, the burden is upon YOU (or UR for that matter) to prove that particualr part isn't the troublemaker.

As for the acc. pulleys, as well as flywheel, you have found yourself your best ally with me. I have definitely loved those mods.

CCColtsicehockey

any updates on these yet

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

I have never seen one guy w/ a brokem crank b/c of installing a pulley. And I have seen only a few amount of ppl w/ problems after installing the UR crank pulleys. The problem you run into is that how do you know how well the person treated the car before and after putting on the pulleys. Who is to say it's not a lemon or car that has been highly abused? Usually all these posts are highly speculative. Secondly, notice what UR said:


People are getting the pulleys confused with the harmonic dampers found on 90 degree V8 and V6 engines. The pulleys on most of the new import engines have a rubber ring incorporated into them like the dampers which is there for noise suppression from the A/C compressor, P/S pump and the alternator, What the manufacturers call NVH (Noise Vibration & Harshness) when referring to passenger compartment noticeable noise and vibration. If you look at some of the pulleys on older imports there is no rubber to be found. I have samples of mostly Honda, An Altima, 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Ford, Chrysler 2.2L, 1.8L VW and a few others all with no rubber. The purpose of a traditional harmonic damper is to keep the crank from cracking which is not necessary on your engine. The pulleys have been out there running for over 5 years and there have been no complaints to us. There is a lot of internet hearsay about the pulleys, anyone saying anything bad has not actually tried the parts. You really have nothing to worry about. If you would
like to read more info on the subject, visit the FAQ section on our web site or you
can
contact me directly at
(631)-586-9525 Ext. 12

Joe ///M

I would have to say that there has been no proof that the UR pulleys actually cause damage. It is people speculating that they do.

Josh
Excelerate LLC

Zasker1

Team,
Its Out: http://www.unorthodoxracing.com

I wanted and have stated I would buy and than dyno this part but I will have to give it some more though as 2 acura dealerships have cautioned against this, while not objecting to a CAI, Exhaust, Header, etc

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

If anyone is interested in the 3 Piece UR Ultra SS Pulley set please look at my signature for the link to the UR Groupbuy. Thanks.

Josh
Excelerate LLC

Stokeless_TSX

Id have to see a dyno at least from the manufacture before i bought this.

sauceman

It may be just a 4 cylinder problem, I don't know. One thing I know for sure, I have beaten my own F22B1 Accord like there was no tomorrow, and have never experienced crank failures on the 3 engines I had in that car, and I had never ever heard of any Honda crank having failed, EVEN when being physically overrevved. It just doesn't happen on F-series. Then suddenly, I have these accounts of damages on even low-mileage F-engines. I think it is reasonnable to doubt about a coincidence.

WRONG! If there is a dampener on the crank stock, it is there for a reason! It is there to keep the F-series cranks from being damaged. 2L+ engine are subject to a substantial amount of vibration, and those engines did NOT have balance shafts, so the dampener is there for a reason, no matter what UR thinks!

The K24 is an even larger crankshaft with 99mm throws, and even though it is balanced using counter-rotating shafts, I would not be surprised they still require the harmonic dampeners.

See, this is where is really the problem. In that thread I referred you to, people have sent complaints to UR, and those complaints have been dismissed or ignored by them.

Take for example gimpyaccord, who I'd compare to JTso somewhat to over here. No doubt the guy knows his business. He complained to UR about his problem, and guess what? He got the same BS letter that you got from them. Read it, it's in the thread I referred you to.

Another example here: http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/underdrive/pulley.shtml (good thing this link is still up)

It seems as though UR would expect that people would need to prove beyond a doubt that their crank pulley is harmful, while obviously these folks don't have the means, the methods and the equipment to do so. Until that they discard it as rumors. Which I think is wrong. The burden is on them to make sure, come up with tests and studies proving that their crank pulley isn't harmful in any way, be it on the crank, crank seals or oil pumps.

Accessory pulleys, I agree. Crank pulleys, no.

As I said, the burden lies on UR to prove that the pulley is OK. Not the other way around. It's not third-world here with consumers being completely left to themselves.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And Josh, I don't mean to shit on the products you sell. I am in business too, I make my living out of selling. But I will argue someone to the ground if I feel something is fishy with what they sell.

I am not shitting on UR's line either. Aside from the crank pulley, I think they're awesome products with great quality, and have bought the flywheel and accessory pullies from them. But I seriously doubt about their work ethics.

To me, the way they deal with their customers when they have complaints is , STFU and

Stokeless_TSX

ok this is a lil off topic but what is PIITB???