fdl

Now that we know we will eventually see something from hondata, any guesses on gains? If we can get 12 HP out of the injen alone...could we get an extra 20 whp with both? That would be perfect! It may even be enough for domn

Actually I am hoping to do 20 more hp without needed to cross the current redline. Is that too much to ask?

dom

:shakehd:

I need 40 more

Besides
Hondata = $1000 CAD
Injen = $300.00 CAD

$1300 / 20HP = $65.00 per HP

I would expect more than an extra 8-10HP by adding Hondata

TinkySD

silly domn. You do realize that injen + honda take almost a full second of the rsx 0-60 don't you? It's all about chunky torque gains throughout the band...like 10lbft across the entire thing.

dom

That I did'nt know, got some proof?

So its 10lb-ft and 10HP acorss the band not just at a certain point like with a CAI dyno?

I did'nt pay much or won't pay much attention until I start seeing some gains. I took notice yesterday when you said Dooug from Hondata claims that fuel consumption remains the same unless the car is pushed. That I like.

Jab31169

I'd like to see the redline bumped to 7400-7500 with fuel cutoff at 7600-7700. The hondata will do wonders for our cars. With the VTEC lowered to 5200RPMS you will see much faster 0-60 and 1/4 miles. I'd like to see another 10HP/10TQ at the wheels. Put me at like 195HP/172TQ at the wheels. Maybe even squeeze 200HP/180TQ at the wheels with an exaust. Then toss some ITR cams in the mix....215HP/195TQ at the wheels

dom

Lets say I first buy a Injen intake and then get the Hondata. I presume that Hondata tunes the ECU specifically to work with the Injen? So would they tune it differently if I had the stock air box?
And if thats the case what if I decide to get exhaust and headers, cams etc down the road. Would the ECU need to be retuned again?

215HP at the wheels would be one scary TSX.

TinkySD

any cai is going to work with hondata. ON the rsx they tested with AEM but people with injens get identicial gains. Let me show you that dyno chart again.....
12-20 peak wheel hp from a stock RSX depending on the dyno and modifications.
15-20 ft/lb torque increase between 2500-3500 rpm.
Peak torque now at 3200 rpm on an unmodified RSX.
Very flat smooth torque curve. 95% of peak torque available from 2500-8000 rpm.
Rev limiter optionally raised to 8600 RPM (see valve spring tech information).
VTEC point lowered to 5200 rpm for cars with intake systems.
Passes Californian smog testing (no measurable difference from stock).
Fully dealer compatible - works with all Honda scan tools and equipment.

TinkySD

Hondata for the rsx has ~ 4 flashes for different levels of tune. 1) stock 2) i/h/e mods 3) type R 4) rsx with cams + i/h/e

dom

Post edit:

Ok, so its safe to say then If I did add Headers and exhaust after intially buying my Hondata that was tuned for Intake only I would have to have it tuned again?

dom

Here's a pic of the Hondata Intake Manifold Gasket: K-Series Engine. Its universal so it should fit the TSX.



These gaskets have been dyno proven to add up to 3-5 ft lb of torque and 5 peak HP across the entire power band on a completely stock Type-S. The base model manifold is made out of 70% out of plastic so gains will not be as high.
The reason for these significant gains is that Honda used a very thin metal gasket which transfers a large amount of heat from the head into the intake manifold, which in turn heats the incoming air.


Here's my question, that description says its good for 5HP and 3-5lb-ft on a Stock Type S but the gains are'nt as good on a Base RSX because the stock gasket is already 70% plastic. Does anyone know if the TSX's gasket is more similar to the RSX-S or Base?
For $65 US thats a cheap but effective mod.

dom

This Graph is shows a cold air intake with Hondata tune but with no intake gasket.



I presume this is a RSX-S with Hondata and CAI only. Thats a 30HP gain if the chart Tinky posted is Correct and the RSX-S puts down 160 WHP in stock form. I thought it was at least 170?

TinkySD

hondata gasket will not fit. Someone took a look at it compared to stock and it did not line up

kurt_bradley

Hondata is DEFINATELY going to do a K24 app now. My friend and teammate (that is a Hondata distributor) has a K24 for his RSX that they are making an app for. This means we'll be able to market it not too long after.

On the gasket, that was me. Tested the one off of my RSX-S. No fit.



Only a couple more months of work...then I'll be in the low 11's.

AKay

hey Kurt i read here and i read on the other thread you saying they were/are making a flash for you.
But what im wondering is,
You engine swapped into your rsx type s i assume since the rsx comes with the k20a2. So i am also assuming a k24a from a crv or accord was swapped in right? not a k24a2>?
And isnt that ap for Hondata easier because of the lack of DBW?
Im just a lil confused as to why it took some coaxing from us creating a petition to have them go from no plans to make one, to definate plans to make one now if they were already working on it u know?
AKay

AKay

OH SHYT! 500 posts!!!
HOLLA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TinkySD

our coaxing didnt' really do much, I think they already had plans for it.

The k24 rsx is going to be using an rsx ecu just with changed maps, the tsx is still currently untunable. However as soon as the equipment to access the tsx ecu is available the maps they use on the k24 rsx should more or less already be optimized for the tsx with only minor tuning needed.

BlackTSXer

hey guys i got a question. what are those v-tec/fuel controllers from apex? cant we just purchase those and follow the same route that hondata is taking by adjusting the vtec/fuel cutoff to the same points that they do it? or does the ecu programming that they do do more than just adjust vtec/fuel cutoff?...thanks!

Stokeless_TSX

with the apexi VAFC II you can not change the red line only the vtec switch over point. only thing is there is no diagram out there for our cars yet, i have tried and failed. I think i have it figured out jus thavent had the energy to try it yet one of these days maybe ill get around to it. and yes you can change the fuel mapping by the RPM with the VAFC II. but not fuel cut off or redline

BlackTSXer

thanks for the quick response. i guess hondata will have to do...

TinkySD

Also, hondata is a complete ecu reflash meaning it controls everything the normal ecu does and can be modified. An important part of hondatas tuning is the adjustment of the i-vtec system to be more aggressive. a VAFC can just adjust fuel maps and vtec switchover point. Not anything else.

Stokeless_TSX

there is a programable hondata isnt there not just a reflsh> i would want to be able to tune it myself...for now im all motor but eventually hopefully soon i plan on running boost i dont want to get a N/A ecu map and then have to purchase another one to run boost

TinkySD

there is a fully programable one they are working on specifically for the k series.(they have a very general one for all motors currently) the k series specific one should be out in january but the first release won't support the tsx..it will be for rsx/civic k 20s only.

fdl

So does anyone know exactly how the Hondata ECU gets its gains other than messing with vtec? Does it run more lean or more rich?

Lung Fu Mo Shi

It optimizes the fuel mapping to run a bit leaner at higher rpms, and also scrubs ULEV ratings if needed (I think).

JTso

iTrader: (2)

It advances timing while increases fuel to compensate. Rev limit is higer, vtec is lower and open-loop sooner.

fdl

ok, well leaner = hotter = more stress on the engine parts. is this a concern?

JTso

iTrader: (2)

It's not running leaner. It's running richer, as well as separate maps for normal and VTEC. Although the maps are for a S200, the idea should be the same...

low fuel (normal)


high fuel (VTEC)

fdl

Thanks JTso. I'm not sure how to read that though?

If its running rich thats alot safer than running lean..which can be bad. I guess if there is a downside to running rich its that your fuel economy will suffer, but i can live with that.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

The X axis representing engine vacuum from high 26.2" to atmosphere pressure 0.5". The Y axis representing engine rpm. The numbers representing how much fuel the ECU is telling the injectors to put out. As rpm increases while vacuum decreases, more fuel is added. You can visualize it a little better by drawing a line angles down from left to right to see how much fuel is being added at any particular engine load. The ignition timing map also increases timing up to a certain point while rpm is going up. There are also two separate timing maps for low and high (VTEC). If boost option is selected, there will be an extension to the end of the map representing boost pressure fueling. By looking at the maps, you can also see what happens when rpm is high and vacuum is high during deceleartion. The ECU practically shuts down the injectors. HTH...

Btw, as far as fuel economy, it shouldn't be affected as long as you stay in closed-loop mode which the ECU will remain a 14.7:1 A/F ratio. There's an option to enable open-loop mode sooner to maximize power when tuning can be done more aggressively.

Stokeless_TSX

interesting.