CCColtsicehockey

So over the weekend I attended a free car show with a couple friends at UTI Automotive school near Philadelphia. They were doing free dyno run so I decided why not give it a shot since I haven’t had time to do it. Well let’s just say that was a big mistake. They had no idea how to run it. I had a run of 115hp and 286.7ftlbs. My a/f ratio also read 10.1 the entire time. So needless to say that was a joke but I also wanted to look into the a/f reading even though I just figured out it was a result of those that didn’t actually know what they were doing to run the machine.

So Monday night I went to a local shop to get a proper dyno done. They have a Dyno Pack dyno which connects directly to the hubs without the wheels. I was kind of disappointed at the results to say the least. For those that don’t know the car or don’t remember what is on it, it is Comptech Supercharger, J’s Racing Intake, Comptech Header, RT High Flow Cat, J’s Racing 60rs Exhaust. The numbers I got were 215.9hp and 173.4ftlbs. My air fuel ratio was still not exactly right but I could remember the actual specs of the supercharger and ecu reflash for it for the life of me while at the shop so I didn’t realize the possible issue at hand till I got home. While at the dyno it was appearing like VTEC was not engaging until 5000rpms. I also remembered that I can take the car all the way up to 7600rpms before it redlines when I drive it. I didn’t think the supercharger reflash was set this high and when I got home sure as can be those are the specs of the standard reflash for the TSX. I have never had the standard reflash done before getting the supercharger. I then went to ct-engineering site and looked at the supercharger specs to confirm the redline should be at 7200rpms and the VTEC engagement point should be at 3000rpms.

This is crazy if I ended up with the wrong reflash. I have had the supercharger installed since last august however I have put maybe 2000 miles on it since it has been on at best and never had time to get it dynoed before going back to school. I haven’t had a chance to pull the ecu yet to look at the hondata sticker but I am pretty sure it said supercharger reflash when I received it back or I wouldn’t have put it in the car. Hondata says the only thing I would get for my troubles is a free reflash to the proper reflash and that’s after I pay to ship it to them. I expect my shipping should be covered as well as a possible discount on the kpro because this is ridiculous if it ends up being confirmed.

So I would love some input from people based on my dyno graph compared to TSX536 first dyno graph (hope you don’t mind me using it) which in my opinion clearly can be seen the difference in the VTEC point. So based on the two dyno graphs do you believe I have the incorrect reflash.
Also if it is the incorrect reflash how much damage could I have done to the engine having the wrong fuel maps and engagement points and what not.



My Dyno Graphs



TSX536 Dyno
[imghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/Kenray536/TSXSCDyno.jpg[/img]

lcrazyaznl

iTrader: (1)

Maybe its just a bad dyno with the high hp producing parts, so maybe it needs to be tuned for a racing exhaust j's intake.

PrecyseStylez

When you drive.. do you feel or hear vtec kick in at 5k rpms? Any AF ratios?

Audioserf

Since the ACM controls fuel, as long as the ACM's working, you don't have to worry about having damaged the motor, I don't think.

Also, Colts, I would just get a KPro to get this resolved, rather than messing with a new reflash. I mean, you planned to get KPro eventually, right?

visuelz

Even a rich man can go broke...

CCColtsicehockey

I checked the ECU tonight and without even removing it I could see the sticker that says Comptech Reflash on it so I guess I am going to have to send it out to have it checked now since there is no other way to check the ecu now to my knowledge.


Also here is the comparison dyno again since I forgot a bracket originally.

TSX536 Dyno

Audioserf

You're missing a ton of power somewhere.

Jason, something to check just for the hell of it is blockage in your RT cat. When my car dyno'd shitty, it turned out to be my header's flexpipe was collapsed, choking the car. You have a Comptech header so I doubt that's the problem, but look at your cat...

Good luck. I've learned recently how frustrating it can be when boost goes wrong.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

It looks to be the wrong reflash base on the vtec point.

CCColtsicehockey

Guess its gonna have to get sent out next week. Gonna overnight it I guess.

04-6mt-atx

iTrader: (2)

IF there was a mistake on Hondata's part of uploading the wrong reflash, I would expect they would refund you the cost of shipping. A discount on K-pro would just be sweet. GL

Audioserf

Another thing - with the CTSC reflash, isn't the VTEC point supposed to be a smooth and imperceptible transition? On Jason's chart you can clearly see it jumping at 5k.

I hope they take care of you with the new reflash.

CCColtsicehockey

Well it appears I will just be trying to get it reflashed for free cause I guess I read the kpro cost chart wrong so don't have the budget to get a kpro right now. Hopefully by the end of the summer maybe but it will suck having to send my ECU out to them twice.

DAYTA

That should be true of both the standard reflash and the CT reflash. IIRC, Doug has stated that on a properly tuned K-series engine (NA or FI), you should not feel the cam change take place, nor should you have a power dip, as you do on a stock map.

J, can you pull an A/F plot? I'd be curious to see what ratios you're running. If you do have the wrong reflash, I'd think you'd also be running a bit lean under boost since the map wouldn't be calibrated for the extra air the blower is pushing. Ideally, you should get progressively richer and end in the high 11s @ high RPMs.

I noticed the dyno sheet says you hit 216whp @ 6800 which tells me that the run was cut prematurely. Redline should be around 7100, and since it looks like you were still making power at shutdown, that extra 300 revs could've netted you another 10whp easily. As for the torque, I forget what mods Kenny had for his dyno besides the S/C, but he hit 225whp/175wtq, so your numbers look on point.

One last thing to note, dyno outputs vary from type to type, and even calibration to calibration. From what I've read, this is especially true with Dynapack dynos. Depending on the load parameters input prior to the pull, they can yield very high numbers (i.e. Church's Dynapack) or relatively low numbers (similar to DD/Mustang dynos). So, unless you run on the same dyno as someone else, comparisons are often arbitrary. The one exception seems to be Dynojets, which is why I assume they're so popular, as their outputs seem quite consistent regardless of calibration.

CCColtsicehockey

I don't have an a/f map unfortunately. However when we were doing the dyno run it was showing around 14.6 until around 5k rpm. then it dropped down to like 12/11

The primary thing even more than VTEC location is the fact I can run the car up to 7600rpm before it bounces off the redline mark. No, I dont make this a habit but I have done it to see where it actually redlines. The supercharger is supposed to have a 7200rpm redline. I am pretty sure the needle wouldn't go 400rpm past the actual redline if it was hitting the 7200rpm redline.

The ecu has been shipped out to hondata as of this morning via 10am Overnight shipping. Hopefully by late tomorrow or early thursday they will call me with an answer as to what is up.

moda_way

I blame the slushbox, not the reflash.

jlukja

TodaSi

Any word yet?

CCColtsicehockey

yeah yeah yeah I don't think so

CCColtsicehockey

It arrived yesterday at 9:45am however I have yet to hear from them after one whole day. I was hoping to have the ecu back by this weekend.

CCColtsicehockey

I still have not heard from them regarding the issue so I will be calling them on my way home from work in a few minutes to find out whats up. I kinda expected better service than this from hondata.

jiggaman

any news?

CCColtsicehockey

Lots of news I will post about my dealings with hondata later on though. Still need to email them regarding a couple things still that have not been ironed out to my satisfaction yet.

For now I will say they reflashed the ECU. The reflash on it was incorrect. I have the ECU back now and the car runs much better now and seems to have a substantial power increase. I will be going for a new dyno run on Tuesday at the same place as last time. Hopefully by then as well I will have some answers to other things dealing with hondata and can post up more.

TodaSi

Time for an update??

CCColtsicehockey

Dyno was cancelled since it was being done as a favor and something came up. Rescheduled for this Saturday. I hate waiting lol.

visuelz

Update?

CCColtsicehockey

Well as I had said before I had gotten the ECU back from Hondata which they did reflash again. I have been driving the car for about a week since that and it feels like a completely different car. So this Saturday I made it to the dyno again finally. The numbers were much different this time. Best numbers were 226.7HP and 189.5FTLBS of TQ. This is number from 215HP and 175TQ. You can clearly see in the dyno comparison the difference. I still have not got anything worked out with Hondata other than receiving the reflash to the correct one for free and was told I should be receiving a check for my shipping cost. I have not received it yet though. I feel that more should be done regarding this but from what I have been told from others that have had problems with them I shouldn’t be expecting anything. I am going to continue to try and contact them regarding this issue though.





Boost Map

moda_way

Curse that slushbox and those numbers. I guess you can look at it this way, with all the hardware you've attached to that car and everything you carry in the trunk, you now are as fast as us NA 6MTs.

feuss2

iTrader: (1)

That is a super flat torque curve and nice linear power delivery!

PrecyseStylez

I've had a problem with them as well. They didnt take any money off of my purchase of the Kpro! They said something about some number didnt match something. They are the only company who does reflashes so i dont know why they didnt take any money off like they "claim" they do for people who currently have reflashes! I got the reflash back in 2004 or the beginning of 2005 and they wanted me to remember which vendor i sent my ECU to... I have no clue! I thought I sent my ECU directly to Hondata and they sent it out to someone and i had to drive all the way to NY from NJ to pick it up! Regardless im still upset about the whole ordeal.

SoCaliTrojan

Don't blame Hondata since your info doesn't match the info in their database. Your vendor could have screwed up.

How could you not remember which vendor you dealt with? The list is small, and you probably have a credit card statement, bank statement, etc. to show payment to the vendor. Hondata doesn't work with people directly. You have to go through a vendor, who gives you the shipping stuff once you pay them.

As for receiving it at a different location, did you use the vendor's address as a receiving address or something? I don't see why they would have mailed it elsewhere.

If I were Hondata and someone came up asking for a discount...and used bogus info, I wouldn't give the discount. Contact your vendor and get your paperwork fixed!