feuss2

iTrader: (1)

1. Commit...



2. Solder



3. Heat Shrink Tubing



4. More Solder



5. More Heat Shrink Tubing



6. Split Tubing / Tape



7. 1/4" Rubber Plug + 8mm Bolt (will plug hole for original sensor location)



8. Cut down bolt w/ Dremel, + pattern to tighten on install with screwdriver



9. Everything back in place (new wire secured with wire ties)



10. Sensor relocated to inside of front bumper (resonator removed)



11. Fog light cover vented and reinstalled

TheDukeZip

Nice pics, the question is did it do anything ?

feuss2

iTrader: (1)

Did not dyno before/after, but will keep an eye on the MPG's

chuson

What's the reason to relocate the AIT?

feuss2

iTrader: (1)

Keeps the sensor away from the heat of the engine/radiator...

kennungesser

Did the same thing on my truck, did it the same time I did the SIR, so can't pinpoint the effects. I will say it had ill effects that I noticed.

TheDukeZip

Well at least if there is a problem it was done in a way that it can be restored back to stock, just with an extra long cord

TSX 3Pedal

Since the intake air temperature sensor is now mounted in the general area as the outside temperature sensor, you will now be able to monitor the intake air temperature by looking at your guages.

chuson

So when you perform this mod, does it mean the ECU will adjust to a different air/fuel map because the sensor read @ a cooler temperature???

LukeaTron

I don't understand at all why you would want to do this. Are you trying to trick the ECU into richening up the mixture? That's all you're going to get out of this mod. Your better off with the ECU having the right information to work with.

Edit: You might pick up a tiny bit more ignition advance but I'd be quite surprised if it's enough to do anything. Under certain conditions you might get some knock and throw codes.

chuson

I'm also curious for the reason behind this mod. If the reason is...

then it's lame and time-wasting.

Mskierki

Nice attempt at detail with the screw pattern. I don't understand why you needed the rubber plug and the bolt. You could have gotten away with some silicone adhesive to hold the rubber in place or just using a correctly sized set screw.

Your quality of work is better than a lot of the crap people post but you would probably get an increase in fuel economy by installing a less restrictive intake.

Keep us informed if you get any interesting results.

PACman

Is it because he's running a SRI (getting heat from the engine bay), but wanted to mimic a CAI by relocating the AIT?

LukeaTron

But if you're not actually getting cold air, what's the point? It's just confusing the ECU.

chuson

Even my CAI has the AIT up where the stock intake pipe is.

feuss2

iTrader: (1)

The fact that a big brand name bolt-on mfgr did or did not do something is not necessarily an indication of what the "optimal" solution is. What it *could* be indicating is that your CAI manufacturer hasn't taken the time to try this. Maybe they did and they made a decision not to manufacture an AIT sensor extension cable in the interest of maximizing profits! They get a few hundred bucks for a few aluminum pipe bends and an air filter. Why complicate things???

Anyway... I used the bolt and rubber plug (instead of silicone sealant) to be able to reverse this. If the goal was to use the dash temp readout to see the AIT, I would have moved the outside air temp sensor into the air intake tube.

The goal was to gain a little more ignition advance by reporting a lower air intake temp. Whether or not this richens the mixture (or it stays rich) depends in part on feedback from the oxygen sensor. If it starts running too rich, the ECU can compensate. It will also back off the advance if the knock sensor becomes active, so there are some built-in safety's.

Changing the AIT's value is a simple way to get some advance, and under the right conditions richen the mixture. As soon as people figured this out we started seeing these $10 20+HP power chips on auction sites, which were really just fixed resistors. I talked to sellers who did not know the value or the temp is was trying to report. One guy told me the color codes of the resistor he was selling. Another member posted a graph showing the voltage across the sensor pins and the temp it maps to. The fixed resistors in this kit were forcing a reading of 0-20F all the time. It should be obvious why this is a problem...

The more sophistacted way to accomplish this is using piggy-back computers. They produce gains by manipulating sensor input. The thermistor is non-linear, so if your goal was to subtract off a steady (and reasonable) 10-15 degrees, this would take some signal processing.

What you see here is another approach. Instead of signal processing, this is using physical location to subtract a few degrees off the AIT sensor reading. The difference is not drastic like the fixed resistor mod, and like the fancy piggy-back signal conditioners, the input will vary with outside temp. The cost is under $10!

I am trying this to see if it works. This was done in combination with venting the fog light cover and removing all of the resonator parts. So far I have not seen any CEL's or any indication that the ECU is in failsafe mode and the throttle seems more responsive.

LukeaTron

The most likely situation you'll see codes (because of knock) is when your engine is very hot and you step hard on the gas while the engine is under load (such as going up hill). I think what's going to end up happening is over time the ECU is going to figure out the sensor is under reporting the temperature value and essentially shift the whole map up a bit to compensate. The gains should be negligible at best.

At the same time, I can hardly blame a guy for experimenting. It should be about 99% safe.

feuss2

iTrader: (1)

I have yet to drive the car in temps above freezing...

clee109

you should dyno it and see if you get anything, by theory you should get a pinch of power.

chuson

If your goal is to gain ignition advance, which by just relocate the AIT sensor, is silly. I'm sorry that I sound like a jerk, but as you had explained it further, it led me to do more research on it.

While Ignition timing is IMPORTANT in the tuning world, it would not do any good if your Fuel Map, and Cam Angle remain stock. Our TSX ECU relies on multiple overlay mapping to do the justice, it gets input from the sensor, and adjust it to the most appropriate use. This is a great thing since it will give you some safety net if shits happen.

HOWEVER, in order to tune the ignition timing, there's more than just 1 AIT sensor. You will also need to tune the ignition timing table, +/- degree and find the right angle thru tuning; along w/ that you will need to tune your fuel map and cam angle table, with a tunable ECU (Where's K-Pro?). While the TSX fuel map MIGHT be infinite (I doubt it cause of the stock fuel injector); the cam angle table is NOT. The maximum cam degree for the TSX, is sadly @ 25. We all knew a well modifed engine will need more than 25 degree on high cam to shine, but that's the limit on TSX. Even with Hondata reflash, the cam angle table stay stock, why? Because the ECU is restricted, and not even Doug @ Hondata can tune it. Let alone if you have a stock ECU.

So now, I have found some links below for everyone to read. If I'm wrong, please LMK. And if anyone can found info on Ignition advance ALONE will gain more POWER, please post.


K-Pro K-Manager Ingition Table Tuning

How to achieve more POWER w/ Ignition Advance Timing

Tune Along w/ Fuel Map

chuson

Sooo quiet, any input?

Mskierki

How about an update from you? Any noticeable performance? Or better yet, can you show any hard data with your fuel consumption?

Mskierki

How about an update from the OP? Any noticeable performance improvement? Or better yet, can you show any hard data with your fuel consumption?

feuss2

iTrader: (1)

I really can't tell at this point. I was halfway through a tank of gas when I did this. I filled up with 93 octane recently. Next time I fill up I will be able to see if gas mileage has changed.

chuson

feuss2... YGPM.

As I've mentioned, I have nothing to against you. I just don't like non-functional mod, and if it proves to work, I will mod it on my car too. As I have mentioned in the PM, you will need a DUAL ECU (RSX ECU to control the engine, and TSX ECU to control the rest), and probably need the Hytech Stage 1 kit if you want to use it w/ K-Pro (or to move the VTC pass 45degree) and aftermarket cams.

Have you got a baseline dyno yet before the AIT relocation?

feuss2

iTrader: (1)

Did not dyno before/after... Also, did this at the same time as resonator removal and floglight cover venting...

feuss2

iTrader: (1)

411 miles on the last tank of super. Last fill-up was 13.98 gal, so 29.4mpg...

chuson

What's your before mpg, and how accurate are they.... they can be achieve differently w/ the style of driving/weather condition/ and such...

feuss2

iTrader: (1)

True... those were full>full at the same gas station, same gas, resetting the trip each time. I guess its as accurate/consistent as the gas pump's detection of when the tank is full.

No CEL's. I will post if I get them as the weather gets warmer...