6SpeedTA95

I just wondered, I've been surfing my.is (great site by the way), honda-acura.net, been on bimmerforums for a while and now I'm here. I notice a few things people buy cars like the TSX or IS300 or 325i only to turn around and get rid of it within a year because its not fast enough. Yet in reality none of the above cars are slow and they're all perfectly adaquate for daily driving. Do people just not do their research before buying? None of the above cars will ever be road rockets with out some kind of FI. But they're all perfectly good cars and superb sport sedans. I guess I'm just asking for input as to why this stuff happens and your thoughts on it.

Beoshingus

I don't know, but I've caught a bit of the bug myself. I'm already looking forward to a 2008 TSX. I had my previous car for 7 years and the one before that for 5 years. And even though this TSX is my favorite, I'm still not planning on keeping it as long as either of those. I figure I'll sell it or trade it in in the 3rd or 4th year.

6SpeedTA95

Nothing wrong with keeping it for three or four years. Hell there's nothing wrong with getting an STI, EVO, M3 whatever you choose to get if thats what you want, but it just doesn't make much sense to me to eat all that money in depreciation only to sell it 12 months later.

HoRRo

It all boils down to driving style and preference of power. I would guess, that at the time of the purchase, there was no other car that offered what they wanted, and now their ideal car has been released, so they trade up their current for the ideal one. Personally, I would like to keep this car for about 7-10 yrs, but, if the next gen TSX looks as good as the 2004-05 and gets the RDX engine, I would trade my 2005 in without a second thought.

mkaresh

How do people with powerful cars enjoy it? A bit of fun for a few seconds when they happen to get first spot at a light?

I drive a weak 130-horsepower Protege5. And I find that cars with 2-3 times my horsepower often hold me up on the road.

All of this said, I wonder how large the population of frequent car traders actually is. Probably much smaller than it seems. Most people sell a fairly new car because they learn they cannot afford it, and go down rather than up.

6SpeedTA95

I could see myself getting a TSX this fall and 4 years down the road trading up to a more powerful TSX assuming honda improves on the product and the competition doesn't close the gap.

6SpeedTA95

Sorry, I'm one of those guys with a powerful car that tends to driver rather slowly....

Mokos23

It's because its underpowered and buyers remorse later on.

I'm keeping mine for now until I see the next gen G35 sedan.
It's Acura's fault now though that I can't justify myself spending $36,000 on a BMW 325xi cause its more expensive than a fully loaded Acura TL w/Navi and Acura TSX w/Navi.

6SpeedTA95

Is the TSX really underpowered though? 0-100 in less than 20 seconds on the 6M cars. Thats not really that bad, and 7 or 8 years ago it was awesome for a sedan.

vitocorleone

No, it isn't - personally, I find even the 5AT '04 has plenty of power.

That is, I think what you meant is that some people find it to be underpowered after buying it and buyer's remorse sets in because of this.

While HoRRo had a very good point, part of it is also impulse control - unless you truly NEED a new car because yours was wrecked or whatever, then there is no reason to settle for something you are likely to regret rather than waiting a year or three until one comes out that is what you want.

gdcwatt

I'm guessing that people eat all that depreciation because they can afford to.

On the other hand, twelve years ago several of us used to regularly go out to Shannonville Motorsport Park, near Kingston, Ontario with modified Honda Civics; I swear BMW brought out the 328 because the 325 was just too easy to pass. Actually, most of us weren't great drivers, but because we had less to lose (or could afford to write-off our cars) we just drove harder. Or maybe there really was something wrong with all those BMW's. What fun! Well, Civics just keep getting faster.

And some people also fear the cost/idea of repairing/operating/modifying an "aging" car, without really thinking it through.

TonyFresh

always upgrade never go down or same value, whats the point. I agree I dont understand when people trade in the TSX for a 325 or IS300 hell even 330 when your going to turn around and say and do the same thing again in +2 years. Now if its M3,G35 thats fine

TinkyWinky

That is so true. I think we all are guilty [more or less] of justifying a new purchases with false arguments regarding maintenance/repair etc.

Though I do know a few people who frequently switch cars through "non-corporate" lease programs. I really don't see how that is more "afforadable", especially when it really boils down to a rather expensive rental.

To each his/her own.

Mokos23

Haven't noticed on the TL board, but do a lot of 04-present TL owners trade or get rid of theirs a lot too?

Tintin

It does not make (financial) sense to buy a car, 1-2-3-4 years sell it for another. You lose lots of money. Since cars depreciate, in order not to lose the most, you have to keep your car for 6+ years.
I find it that people who sell their cars for another one better realize that for the first 6 month they are happy, then recognize that there is something better and so on and on. Today more than ever cars are changing drastically, there are tons of competition to every car in every class, there is no car right now that you can buy and it wont change in the next year, that is why it is best to find the best all around car for you today, but also for the next 5 years, which is the main reason why i loove the TSX.

in my opinion, i do not think speed (power) is a valid excuse to change a car, i mean there are more cops today giving speed tickets than ever, roads (around here at least) are crap, traffic all the times, etc, etc...
the tsx can hit 130-140km/h if it makes it in to 100km/h in 8secs rather than 7secs, think about it, how much does that 1 sec change your life?
...it can just be me.

6SpeedTA95

I understand trading for a car in the same class, but here and on other boards people are going with STI's, EVO's, GTO's etc all cars that might be faster but dont offer the overall package that the IS300, TSX and BMW's offer.

Mokos23

STi's, Evos, and GTO's have of course more power, sound, and muscle, but lack in the luxury and elegence department.

6SpeedTA95

exactly!

jpt

People think they want a sport-luxury sedan and then decide to go with a more hardcore sports car, or just some other car they like a little bit more -- why not if they can afford it? Hell, if I had the money to spend I'd own every car for a few months before deciding which one I liked best, too!

By that token it doesn't make financial sense to buy ANYTHING except real estate and mutual funds :eyeroll: Money is, in the end, for spending. Cars are luxuries, not investments, so only you (or your wife...) can tell you whether buying one at any given point makes sense.

waTSX

The TSX is not underpowered.

Beoshingus

Exactly. If people want a car that can lay down a patch of molten rubber and sprint from 0-60 in under 5 seconds, then a four door luxury sedan with an I-4 was the wrong choice for them.

Get a GTO.

6SpeedTA95

I wish the GTO had 4 doors

Did you get my last PM?

CKcentral

I agree with the TSX not being underpowered. Compaired to the last car i owned, 2002 Cavalier LS, this car has WAYY more power and was a huge step up for me. I could just not justify a more expensive car and I simply could not afford it. I had to even get a 2004 used, which i dont mind at all.

I plan on paying off my car in 4 years and hoping to keep it another 4 after that. If i feel that it is lacking the power that i want, and is becoming stale to me, then i will just upgrade. I hear the S/C makes it a whole new car.

Everyone seems to want the fasted most powerful car. No matter what you do to your car someone will always one-up you and have a better, faster, more powerful car then you.

I will be a TSX owner for many years to come

dom

Most people want the latest and greatest. I know thats why I have the itch.

balwinderismyuncle

I am getting an M3 next year in the summer or spring time. Bye bye TSX

waTSX

Financially, I'm a very responsible person. I've learned some hard lessons over the years about saving, investing, etc. But I agree with the above statement. Life is too short to not drive what you want. If you're smart with your money, there's no reason not to enjoy things like cars, or whatever it is you like. You can't take it with you.

Take a big wet bite out of life.

waTSX

If the GTO had four doors, it would not be a GTO, IMO. Dodge boned it with the Charger.

rb1

I'd argue that the torque is somewhat anemic, though. To extract much power from the TSX requires that you rev it higher than cars with more torque. In more conservative driving, it will feel less peppy.

Even a base Jetta motor (base price $17,000 or so) makes more torque.

fuckleberry

man just how much convincing are you looking for ?

It is generally recognized by MOST owners and 99% of trade reviews that TSX needs a few more ponies.(i.e underpowered for it's weight and look)

But then it really boils down to personal style - you think it's fast and powerful : good for you.

TonyFresh

Honda/Acura was never good with torque based cars FTL..... S2k only one

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I got rid of my 04 because I wanted to switch to driving MT. I test drove all the cars in the price range I was willing to spend and still came back to the TSX. Currently have an 06 MT TSX. Looking forward to the 08 model if it gets SH-AWD and the turbo motor.

CarbonGray Earl

Only torque? How quickly a car can get through a rev band and how broad the powerband is more important. As for peppiness, gearing is just as important as torque is in determining how "peppy" a car is. Unfortunately, if torque alone is an inadequate measure for "peppiness."

To flesh out your contention (and slight dig at the TSX) about the Jetta, it bases at $18515, has a 2.5 liter engine with 150hp/170 lb-ft or torque. It 0-60 of 8.3 secs from the manual transmission. The engine is described as "coarse" in the Motor Trend Car of the Year issue and was "optimized for the German pensioners who consistute the bulk of the home-market audience, which seems to alienate the car's Gen X/Y base here in North America." Hmmm, not exactly TSX competition....as you add on options, MT believes "the equation tilts in favor of Honda or Toyota."

If this is your idea of peppy, please consider the new Civic in that lower class of vehicle. In that same MT issue, the whole line got MT COY, 8 sec 0-60, and was 8 mpg better than the "peppy" 2.5 ltr Jetta. The EX bases for $400 cheaper than the Jetta. Its gotta be the Motor Trend COY for a reason.

rb1

This is true, but the TSX isn't particularly short geared, and it's also comparatively heavy.

My own car has torque similar to a TSX (but somewhat more down low), but it is geared about 10% shorter overall than the TSX, and it also weighs about 10% less. It makes a huge difference in the overall responsivess - that's 20% more torque/weight at the wheels in any given gear at typical RPM's.

The car with the better wheel torque to weight ratio will always feel peppier, even if the other car is faster.

6SpeedTA95

It was more of a rhetorical question, why do you come into my threads and try to be deragatory? I dont think its underpowered, that was my point, sure it could be faster, but its not underpowered.

gdcwatt

Years ago now, my sister let me drive her Turbo Eagle Talon.

"Well?", she asked. I told her, "The car has so much torque that it takes all the guesswork out of passing." She replied, "You mean, you guess?"

CarbonGray Earl

Torque is similar, but I am guessing that we have it more area under the curve in our rev band since we can go higher? I don't know what car you have, so I can only guess at this. For the TSX, that extra upper range rev with no torque drop is great when having to merge with freeway traffic. Its peppy in that regard and the K24 is so deceptive, you find that sometimes you don't need that extra up top. I find myself easily keeping up or passing on uphills, against other entry luxury sport autos.

Then what is the point of being peppy?

rb1

Ah, I see that you have an automatic, in which case it makes somewhat less difference since your transmission will automatically put you in a lower gear. Torque differences are much more apparent when driving an MT.

"Peppiness" in an MT-equipped car correlates highly with how fun to drive it is.

x50driver

I leased an 05 6-speed a year ago and I still love it (wish I had gotten the navi), but I have to admit that I am watching for a lease deal on a TL. I only have 11,000 miles and my car looks brand new.

My payoff is a little high...$24,700. Should I just sell it or trade it where I bought it for an 06 TL lease?

By the way, if you are thinking it's not worth the $2K for the navi, think again. Just get it.

Motohip

Cause there's no many good cars right now to be had. The automotive industry is really competitive right now with all the new models coming out that are actually fun to drive. Several years ago car makers didn't care so much about performance as they do now. It's an auto enthusiests dream with all these great cars coming out. Look at Nissan in the late 90's. Just 4 door sedans and trucks. Honda and Acura was pretty boring with no manual in any V6 until a few years ago. Besides Integra (expecially Type R) and Civic SI, there were no performance oriented Honda's and Acura's. Honda got rid of the double wishbones for the Civic and Integra (RSX) which made the purist unhappy. Now Honda is coming out with sporty cars, Civic is sporty as hell, Accord V6 comes in 6mt, RSX, TSX, and TL is sporty and has 6mt option, RL is not grandpa like Lexus. Nissan/Infiniti and Lexus is just amazing right now. Toyota is still meh...

jiggaman

after reading this thread I have decided to sell my TSX...