SaraWI

I've been out of the loop for awhile..can anyone tell me when the 2005 TSX is coming out? Any juicy details? New stuff? I've waited this long..might as well wait for the '05!

larchmont

Hey, Sara! Whenever I see your posts, I get all nostalgiac about Milwaukee.

All along we've been figuring around Sept. '04. I don't know if this originated with any hard data from Honda/Acura or if it's just been an assumption, but I'm pretty sure that's all we've ever seen about this.

Anyway, IMHO it might not be a great idea to wait, because the price might be higher. In fact, I'm gonna stick my neck out on a limb (if you pardon the mixed metaphor) and make a prediction: MSRP will be higher, for four reasons:

(1) Great reviews and other kinds of recognition, including C&D 10 best, and #1 in Forbes whatever.
(2) TSX's selling so well.
(3) Improved economy, which will probably make everybody look to raise prices of everything (cars as well as everything else)
(4) Declined value of dollar

You heard it here first.

gilboman

wouldnt these two factors make people to be able to move up the automotive chain and buy more expensive cars than entry level car? at the very least a TL? i just like playing with ya.

but honestly, IMO if they raise the MSRP, it could hurt the TSX since the car relies on price/feature ratio as a big selling point unlike the higher upmarket luxury vehicles.... TSX sells b/c its cheap and has lots of features, if they jack up the price, ppl would compare it with cars such as 3 series, C Class, TL, G35, etc... tough competition.

Ozzman

I agree with you Larch, not to mention that there is a decent chance interest rates will be raised by the end of the year.

Even if the price does go up, what new features will we get. I am guessing XM radio, bluetooth support like on the TL, and maybe some other goodies. What do ya all think?

dnl2ba

Probably not till the same time as the other MY 2005 cars-- August to October. It may have IMA like the 2005 Accord V6 and the Ultimate (Euro/JDM) Accord, but it's not confirmed. IMA and VCM would increase price a good bit.

Ozzman

I had too look up those acronyms, so let me know if I'm right.

IMA - Integrated Motor Assist, as in a hybrid TSX? I would be surprised, but that would be very cool.

VCM - Variable Cylinder Management - Shutting of some cylinders while cruising. Again very cool idea.

I don't know if TSX would be a candidate for either though, as I think they want to keep a slightly sporty image versus an economical gas sipper image.

dnl2ba

IMA would add power. You take the current engine and add an electric motor. You see, when you add two positive numbers, you end up with a bigger number.

dom

Typically MSRP's are raised $200 to $300 per year. At least its like that for Honda/Acura's in Canada. The 04 Accord was $200 more than the 03 for example. So I'm guessing the TSX price would probly increase by no more than $300.

7or8

All I can see Acura adding in 2005 is either heated mirrors (which Canada already has), XM (which is now available in the Accord), or/and maybe some different color options.

dnb

I agree. And, just to clarify, "different color options" might include different interior + exterior combinations.

I think it's highly unlikely that we'll see any changes in the drivetrain, let alone the addition of IMA or VCM.

C_TSX_Go

i'm waiting for the 2005 TSX

HuKaShI

Do you guys think we'll see one touch up and down for the passenger side as well as power seat for the passenger?

I mean, My friends Altima has these features and its a cheaper car than the TSX. What was Honda thinking when they overlooked this? Are these features really that expensive to add?

I think they should have had these on the 2004's. Really makes no sense. These two things put me between a rock and a hard place. I want the TSX cause its cheaper and appeals to me more but since the TL offers these and more but with a higher price tag, I'm stuck between the two. I love everything about the TSX. It is the car I prefer.

larchmont

Well, we can toss this one into our action...... and I'd be guaranteed to at least break even, regardless of the 0-60.

At least in the U.S., I think it's a complete no-brainer that MSRP of the TSX will go up more than $300.

BTW Dom didn't say $U.S. or Cdn, but I'll take it regardless.

dom

The only way it goes up more than $300 is if they do add a host of features like XM, heated mirrors, One touch and power Pass seat. I think its likely they'll add at least 2 of those things for 05. Why would they up the price say $750 without adding a thing? How much sense does that make?

My guess

TSX goes up $200 in Canada to $35,000 even and $200 in te US to $26,690. I'm also betting Canada won't get the optional Navi for 05 since sales I don't think are doing great.

larchmont

Hey Dom, nobody looks at the fine print.

All anybody will remember is you said $200, I said more.

dom

I'll remember this thread.

I bet Gilbo and B-Diddy predict the price actually goes down.

7or8

Hope so.


They may have left it out to keep the weight down.


HuKaShI, I helped my Uncle purchase a new TL and I’ve had tons of time in that car helping him learn how to use the Nav and his Bluethooth phone with the car. I went through the same thought process as you're going through now, I ended up settling on the TSX….here’s my own personal reasons why..

First, the things the TL has that the TSX doesn’t and how much they matter to me:

Bluetooth - It’s cool, I’d use it for sure.
Extra HP & TQ - Big plus.
Heated mirrors – Cool, but not a huge deal. Comes in handy a couple of months out of the year.
Power passenger seat – I don’t sit in the passenger seat
Great sound system w/DVD-A surround sound – Sounds great. But it only plays surround sound w/ a DVD-A CD. I’m more interested in hooking up a 20 GIG MP3 player. I probably wouldn’t buy a DVD-A CD, ever. Plus for a couple of hundred bucs I could greatly improve the TSX sound. The power is there already…it’s just the speakers that need to be enhanced.
XM Radio – Cool, but again, I’m more interested in the MP3 hookup. I personally would probably seldom use XM.

The things the TSX has that the TL doesn’t:

60/40 split rear seat - Great for my snowboarding trips. Was one of the features I was looking for in the first place.
Handling - More tossable than my Uncle’s TL. Personally I care more about handling than I do flat out speed. That’s just my own personal preference.
Lower Price - Important. I want to pay off the car in a year so I can start saving for a house.

Subjective things:
Exterior Looks - I like the exterior of the TSX better than the TL.
Interior Looks - I’ll take either one.

For me, it basically came down to the fact that the only things on the TL that the TSX doesn’t have that matter to me is Bluetooth and more power. So, I had to ask myself are those two features worth 6K more to me? I decided that for me they don’t especially when they come at the expense of some handling prowess, not split rear seat, an exterior I like a little less and having to put off saving for that house for another 10 months.

z-tec

How about the much debated "rattle issue?"
Any word or thoughts on if that would be addressed for 2005?

What would they realistically do?
Seems like a big deal w/ a lot of people on this forum...

Also I remember a post that mentioned that XM wasn't on the '04 because the TSX isn't made in the US as opposed to the TL (and US Accord).
Would that still make it less likely to happen in '05 or is that BS?

I don't want to start a whole mess w/ bringing up the "R" word, but just thought I'd check if anyone had any thoughts on the possibility that it was being addressed by Acura for '05...

Thanks!

larchmont

You heard this here first too:

The '05 will not have rattles.

P.S. Yet another reason it'll cost more.


BTW for the uninitiated: Anything you hear from me isn't a fact, it's a rumor.
Actually not even a rumor, just flying by the seat of my pants.

jiggaman

i actually heard from a reputable source that they are going to increase the rattle sounds for 2005. that way you will know when you are going over bumps. makes it feels sportier i guess.

kiteboy

Honda will price according to their target sales volume.

Obviously, $27k US is underpriced at 15k units. So if they want to keep selling 15k, they will increase the price substantially. They might do this if they don't increase production capacity. Remember, the same factory pumps out Euro Accord 2.4 Execs, which sell for 22k pounds sterling - a lot more profit. Raising the price has the advantage of moving the brand upscale as some on this board have raised issue with.

If they add capacity, they will want to sell more units and therefore raise the price less.

That's my US pricing logic anyways. In Canada, it there isn't as much room to move, since sales are slower and also the TL is only $6k more.

Does anyone know what Honda's plans for the Sayama plant or building Accord/TSX in a 2nd plant are?

Ozzman

LOL

Now the sales people can say "You get 25% more class leading rattles and the price is only 1% more than last year."

Although honestly, my TSX seems to be developing more rattles on it's own for free.

7or8

LOL

Mokos23

If they offer AWD version Tsx in 2005, I may have to trade in mine.

jiggaman

i've grown to love the rattle sounds. they soothe me.

jcg878

I love the TSX as much as anyone (except maybe larch), but can we admit that they were just being cheap?? It's a sporty car but not a sports car.

Just my

larchmont

I think we can be 100% sure they weren't just being cheap.

Not that all the actual possibilities are honorable -- like maybe (as people have speculated) they mainly wanted this to be an extra way to differentiate the TL from the TSX. That seems to be the main alternate theory besides saving weight.

My guess is that it was both.

kiteboy

Of course they're being cheap... which I define as making trade-offs in features to hit a certain price point. It a $26k car, not an Enzo or SLR or Veryon - there will always be trade-offs when cost is a factor.

SaraWI

I was hoping to see the '05 out in April like the '04, but I may have to wait regardless. By the time I am looking to purchase this car (April)-I may have to order an '05 to get what I want since I doubt the combo will be in stock. Also, a friend of mine argued that one shouldn't buy the first year of a new model vehicle. I argued that the TSX was actually sold in Japan as the Accord before its release here will no major problems and for a year here now with no major problems. Anyone else think the '05 is worth the wait for the reason of not buying the first of a model year???

Mokos23

I was going through the same thinking process like you when it was time to sell the 99 Accord I was driving. I wanted to wait till the '05, but I couldn't get over the fact of where can you get a luxury car that has heated seats, homelink, leather, moonroof, navi, and other equip for under $30K? Also, yeah the Tsx is the Jdm Accord so, I guess they fixed the bugs since it's been in Japan since 2003. Also, I needed a new car since the 99 Accord of mine was at 95,000 miles, it was recently rearended so I needed a new bumper, a new catalytic converter, timing belt, and major engine tuneup. So, I figured I should buy a new car so that I can get a good deal on my Accord still to sell it.

7or8

Most mechanical problems that are discovered get addressed as the problems are understood and fixes get designed. The manufacturer usually won't wait till the next model year to fix. I doubt there will be much of a difference (reliablility wise) with a 2004 TSX built in June and a 2005 TSX built in July. For enhancement or new features they'll wait, of course, but not for fixes to problems.

I'm in the same boat as you Sara. I'm planning on purchasing my TSX in May. I'm less worried about the difference 2 or 3 months will make on reliablility, then I am about buying the car and then possibly a year later watching a TSX with AWD and more HP get released. But there's always something better coming out so I think I'll just take the plunge in May and not worry about it.

7or8

Hey bro...same here. I have a 99 Accord and it will have around 98k or 99k miles on it when I attempt to trade it in. I figured I should get the timing belt changed before I trade it in...did they tell you that they where going to deduct any money from your trade-in because the timing belt needed to be replaced? Did they even ask you about it?

Mokos23

nope, never asked me about it, but told me if i traded it in or sold it at 100,000 miles, i would get only at most $2000-2500 for it.

7or8

How much did you get for it, if you don't mind me asking?

Mokos23

between the $5-6K range only. it was the only tinted 99 accord with gold emblems that has been recently sold there the sales people told me.

Ozzman

I was thinking if it's possible that Acura releases a scaled down, cheaper version of the TSX (cloth seats, no power seats, etc.). There seems to be little marketing room between the TSX and the TL, and more room between the TSX and the RSX. Less powerful engines can be borrowed from the Euro Accords lower models easily I would think, maybe a 170 horsepower version. The TSX was often said to be taking the place of the missing Integra 4door, but it seems a little too upscale for that, so this could be an answer. Just some thoughts.

larchmont

FWIW, I don't. The '04 TSX, warts and all, is the best car I've ever had, and I've had some good ones. And any time you wait for next year's car (of any model), you're taking a chance of the price being higher, sometimes significantly higher.

As I said, I would confidently predict that the '05 TSX will have a higher MSRP. My best guess is several hundred dollars. That might sound high, but..... just on the basis of inflation/cost-of-living increases, that would add about $400. I think you have to add on some more because of the lower value of the dollar vs. the yen (and most other foreign currencies). And there's the additional "wild card" factor of how much more Honda/Acura thinks the market will bear because of great reviews, awards etc. Not that you should take my prediction to the bank, because I'm just speaking theoretically, but I'd say that if you intend to wait, be prepared to pay an extra $600-800.

dom

Larch you already know I don't agree with that $600 to $800 assesment. But even so, if the 05 TSX adds heated mirrors, XM Radio and a power passenger seat and memory then maybe it would be well worth it. My guess is that it still adds a few extras but the price only increases by $200 or so. Acura knows this car is selling because of the value it offers. Change that significantly and it is'nt the same great value.

I know I would have waited for an 05 if I knew it had power pass, memory seats and came in Red/Ebony even if I had to pay $500 extra.

kiteboy

Interesting thought! Many people keep wanting to add features, but subtracting them is an equally valid exercise to get a cheaper car that still contains the core virtues that people want.

To me, what makes the car really different from the 4-cyl Accord is 1) Interior, 2) Handling. I think the power is currently okay, but any less would remove it from sport sedan category because of its 3200 lbs.

Maybe if they also removed the sound insulation and gave it thinner glass, they could get away with the cloth manual interior, no radio or moonroof and market it as a hard-core performance version. Sorta like the M3csl (only Acura should charge less, not more like BMW).

larchmont

OK, let's add to the seat-of-the-pants, you-heard-it-here-first predictions:

(1) Higher price ($27,290 no Nav, $29,290 Nav)
(2) No rattles
(3) No scaled-down cheaper version