virtualbong

Wow, I don't have any sound advice since I've never encountered this personally or have any friends encountered this, but it cannot be your fault. Just wouldn't make sense. And if they do find you at fault, someone's kinda change the system.

drunkenbuda

WoW, that sucks so bad. I'm sorry to hear that kinda BS happen. Never will i valet my car agian. Wish you luck in court!

yuhoo22

damn dude, sorry to hear the bad news....Sue those bastards for everything...including the time and headache that it will cost you to deal with this. I think it is even more BS that they couldn't even accept fault in a case like this.

Good luck and let us know!

naba2002

hey man ive worked valet before and yes it is tru that there is an agreement on the back in most cases, mayb not in urs. still back when i did it we were not allowed to use the remote start, only click open the doors and start with a key. but you have every right to at least file a claim and seek reimbursment. especialy if u got a pik of that wall...damn that looks nasty bro. and sound advice for all my acura brothers dont ever EVER valet ur car, ive worked there and while ur partying for 3 or 4 hours they valet have nothing to do...so u can guess how they pass the time. i remember we got some some mustang when it first came out and it had a short shift, we tore a new asshole in that thing. anyway keep us updated.

TypeRS

ouch...tat sux dude...SUE THEIR ASSES

but got a questiion on the remote start issue: if u know the car will move forward on its own if u remote start, then y install it at all...unless ur saying if the handbrake is released?? im confused at the logic here

weapon-x

Well any reputable Vallet company will have some sort of insurance just in case of things like this. The issue of the remote start will probably come into play. They can argue that it was not properly installed, malfunctioned, etc. Course they can agrue the same weak case if you installed after market pedals in your car. Not exactly a strong case on those grounds alone. But depending on the judge...

The fact they didn't even want to give you their insurance information wuold indicate that they are going to be wankers about taking responsibilty for the damage. My suggestion is get a lawyer BEFORE YOU CALL your insurance. Save yourself the aggrivation, that's what lawyers are paid for to deal with things like this. Heck you should be able to get a rental car and/or lost time/wages if you have to go to court.

Simply putting "you waive all rights, we are not responsible for any damage" on the back of card does not always mean you waive all your rights. Expecially if the club,resturant, hotel, etc requires that you use vallet or other service. If that's the case, then your case is should be stronger.

If the vallet company was contracted by the club/rest. then the club/rest owner will probably be liable as they vallet company was acting as an agent for them. So even if the vallet company doesn't have insurance you can still go after the club/rest. Worst case you have to go after the vallet company owner personally rather than the insurance. Which just means you'll probably have to wait longer to get your money (not necessarily a settlement).

Sorry about your car. But on the plus side, this is a good op to get the front end repainted and lose any chips in your hood.

cconrad

It's not just a matter of the starter moving the car fast enough; the engine may actually have started:

In a different lifetime I accidentally started a Nissan with the transmission in gear. I don't know if this was before the age of the starter lock-out switch on the clutch, or if this one was defective (I think the latter). Unfortunately, I was not in the vehicle at the time. A mechanic was working on the car and he asked me turn over the ignition, so I reached in the driver's window and did just that. The engine started with only one or two turns of the starter (ie, before I could let go of it!), and the car took off across the shop and into a concrete wall.

Somehow it didn't hit the mechanic.

I was fired.

LannyM

A friend of mine had a brother with a Trans Am, 6 speed, and a remote start-no safety bypass. The car was parked at my friends house, on the street. His brother had to move it for some reason, and was not familiar with it, so he hit the button on the keychain, and wham, the T/A starts rolling and fires up! He chases it down the street but the doors are still locked. He stops running to hit the lock button on the remote, but in his panic he can't find it. The T/a picked up speed and rolled past three houses, through a stop sign, and across a street.

At that point it jumped a curb and blew through a front yard, narrowly missing a house. It came to rest in an embankment in the back yard.

I wouldn't have thought the TSX would have enough torque to duplicate such a feat, but who knows?

I know that Subaru used to put in the owners manual some advice that basically said if the car will not run on its own, you could use the starter and 1st gear to move the car off the road out of harm's way......

DaveWhyman

I still don't understand why people leave the car in 1st rather than use the parking brake...You're just asking for trouble.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

Because if the parking brake didn't hold or failed, having it in gear will keep it from rolling.

TSX CSI

must........ get......................

samkws

sorry to hear buddy, it is one of the worst thing happen

car got screwed but they don't admit it's their fault

alpinestar

I always leave it in gear rather than neutral for that very reason

kenji4861

yea seriously, have them explain that at small claims court.

aznt1217

Well the issue with the Valet Key... Acura took my Gray Valet Key and replaced it with a Remote control Unit to start and unlock the car and what not and that will serve as the Valet Key. Did your Acura dealer do the same thing???

1. The Valet Company should be liable for the damages, regardless of what parts are installed, because your car was in their posession and services the whole time.

2. They should've been smart enough to pull the E-Brake up with or without a person in the car.

3. If the valet worker was INSIDE the car and infact had a key why the hell would he remote start it??? and if he was inside how come he didn't do something to stop it and why have it drag?

My suggestion... if it gets really serious and they pin it on you look for a security camera tape (if available), take legal action, try to replicate the actual situation ask the valet guy to do the crap he did, and sue the hell out of them.

Good luck man and that sucks major ass...

elduderino

From a philosphical point of view, blame and fault aren't concepts I like much... but since I worked for the largest maker of remote starters for 5 years, let me give you their position:

If this was a Directed-made remote start (Clifford, Viper, Python, etc.) the install manual definitely said absolutely NOT to put that remote starter into an MT car. Most others say that too.

If somebody hits one button by mistake on the remote, it starts and goes. That is too much of a hair-trigger to be considered safe.

Every remote start Directed sold for years (and to my knowledge this is still the case) comes with a manual defeat toggle switch to prevent accidental starting - such as when the vehicle is being worked on. These were very rarely installed, but were ALWAYS included (for just this kind of reason - liability). If this toggle switch was in the box, and you did not install it - or if you DID install it, but failed to use it before handing the valet your keys, then I would say from a legal liability POV that you would have a hard time showing in court that it was 100% their fault (in the absence of an eyewitness saying that it wasn't the RS but was a person driving).

I'm sorry your car got hurt - that does suck. But I agree with Joerockt that I believe their story - and hopefully it's cheaper for their insurance to pay than to fight you in court.

YOTH

After thinking this thru some more I was wondering how legal (I haven't checked) is this remote starter if in fact it can allow your car to move without the driver in complete control of the car? If someone was injured while standing in front of your car as it jerked out of control you'd be in worse shape than a bent rim.

Anyways, I would check the liability policy of the lot. There might be language in there that protects them from responsibility of various conditions of the cars they take possession of, which may make it somewhat difficult for you.

Going by with what you stated above, if they stick to their argument they are negligent and they are lying. They said you are not supposed to install a remote on a manual. Were they not aware that the car was a manual when they were parking it? And from what little I understand, they would have had to perform some complex combination of manuvers in order for the remote system to "arm". They had knowledge of the remote system as well as it being a manual transmission, yet they still armed it and then started it which caused the accident.

At worst, the starter/engine did malfunction but they should have known better than to operate your car in this unsafe fashion as they kindly pointed out to you, again that's negligence. At some point, they will finally admit they simply drove your car into a wall.

Good luck. I work in an insurance defense firm so I see all kinds of claims everyday, I'd be interested in how this works out.

afici0nad0

ya, pretty messed up man.

reading the first few posts, i thought it would be an open-shut case in your favor. but after reading through the whole thread, i'm starting to have my doubts.

i don't know what happened that night. so you gotta determine what exactly happened that night, and see if there was any negligence from the valet company or club...

lcrazyaznl

iTrader: (1)

Did the valet guy take your car from you at the door or you dropped it off?

aleast if he drove the car he would know what to do and pop the e-brake right? or what ever most people do)

*note I don't own a mt so i don't know all the facts about it, but this is my 2 cents.

kyotousa

call the cops?
just say how the hell would i drive to restaurant to eat with a bent wheel ....
valet manager are smoking crack XD

Big Pimpin

Damn you had very beautiful rims this just breaks my heart to see this happen. It pissed me off when the guy who backed into my car said he didnt do all the damage that happened but this is alot worse.

GSGOMEZ

That's sux! I am sorry to see that happened, I wish that there was nothing happened on your car and wheel. Damn!

NDLunchbox

This is a tough situation, but it seems like a case of joint liability. It's about 60% your fault and 40% the fault of the valet. You shouldn't have put a remote start in a MT in the first place (again, why in SoCal? Wisconsin maybe...), and at the least you should have used the bypass switch and notified the valet about its operation.

Yes, the ticket probably has a hold harmless agreement on the back, but that doesn't always stand up.

Report the claim to your insurance company and let them subrogate it with the valet's ins co, if there is one. From experience, they won't get anywhere though - it's too expensive to prove negligence in a situation like this. You must prove the bailee failed to provide a reasonable amount of care in the handling of your property... if it weren't for that remote starter you'd have a case.

Also, you better sell your bling rims and put the stock on... you'll need the extra cash for your new insurance premiums (most companies won't cover your aftermarket rims anyway unless you ask them to).

sauceman

You should definitely seek the help of an attorney for council, especially if you want to make a claim.

Sometimes a well-written letter from a lawyer will convince them to give in right away when they see you mean business.

BTW, that rim is salvagable. It can be repaired so well you'd never know something happenned to it.

NightShredder

I don't understand how anyone could argue that it is possibly his fault at all. It doesn't matter what is installed or not installed in the car. They were negligent. It is easily proved throught the fact that he gave the car to them and they returned it (see the pics) in a far worse condition. Whatever they did to it doesn't really matter in court matter. The fact that they were careless enough to damage the car while it is in their possession is the definition of negligent.

negligent-to give little attention or respect to, disregard

Since they are a valet company their business IS cars. So how do they not know how to operate a RS on a manual? Answer is they do know how and they didn't pay attention to what they were doing. They messed up.

I agree they liability waiver that these companies claim are not legally binding and are not worth the paper they are printed on. Hence this company doesn't really have a prayer. They accepted your car. They damaged your car. They are responsible for the careless actions of their employee that damaged your car. Just tell your insurance company and they will get a lawyer if necessary. Don't retain a lawyer, your insurance company will do this if they don't pay for your damages. They will pay because their counsel will tell them that is the less expensive option for them. Besides this will most likely go to an arbitrator and not court because of the scope of damage. They usually side with the little guy.

elduderino

I hope they do pay without a fight and that this guy's damage gets fixed as smoothly as possible... even though I totally disagree with your legal analysis.

I think that a good lawyer could make a case that an RS on an MT with no defeat switch, no shifter position switch, installed in contravention of the installation instructions, and chosen over other products that are designed for some sort of MT safety interlock, is like turning over a car with bad brakes or no steering to a valet. The analogy in a courtroom could be painted very well. Lst's just hope it isn't...

In fact, this conversation is probably weakening his legal position... so I'm out.

matelot

I still want to know why would someone in SoCal go thru the cost and trouble of putting remote start on a manual.
hmmm why am i the only one curious

jerzpwr

wow that sucks. fuck those fcukers.

loxllxol

Wow, I definitely appreciate everyone's outlook.

So Eluderino, I like your analogy with the bad breaks or shotty steering. Now the problem with that analogy is that in order for the car to perform it's duty you NEED to use the steering/breaking. Now as far as the remote start is concerned, that is an accessory. A better analogy would be if the valet used other accessories (i.e. in-car phone in beemers, on-star system). If the valet driver simply used the BIG UNLOCK button and used the key to start the car, I would still have a beautiful car.

NightShredder

I see your point but this is an issue of liability for damage not proper installation of after market mods. If there were issues about the saftey of the vehicle any responsible valet would not accept the car. Just like they should not accept a car with bad brakes. Hence it is a mute point in court and would not be relevant or even discussed. This valet company had a choice to park the car or turn it away. Thay made the decision of their free will to accept the car as it is and they damaged it. Any good lawyer would not really want this to go to court and would advise going to an arbitrator. There he/she would know the outcome would not be good for this company and they would advise them to settle a deal before any of this.

afici0nad0

ya, if this case does go to court, proving negligernce on the part of the valet company will be key...good points...

JTso

iTrader: (2)

Sorry to hear about the damage. I hope they will take care of the repair. Just for future reference and suggestion if you decide to keep the same remote start setup. Only provide the key for valet parking and don't give the remote. They can still use the key to unlock the door, disable the alarm and start the car without the remote. That should prevent them from pressing the wrong buttons.

clintoronto

Do you have the name of that valet company. I doubt that "Club Shelter" in Hollywood actually runs it themselves.

You can post their name in as many forums as you like so that other people running restaurants/clubs will avoid using them.

It is just totally irresponsible.

Black_6spd

I absolutely HATE places that don't offer self park. When going clubbing and I see a sign for valet, I usually park across the street!

Motohip

Lucky for you no innocent person was injured. They would sue both you and the valet and probably win. Sucks what happened, but there's no reason you should install remote start on a MT car without a safety feature that doesn't allow it to start without going through a sequence prior to shutting the engine off. No reputable shop would install an alarm like without that and even then they'd make you sign a waver removing them from any liability in events like this.

I'm also wondering if your insurance would pay for anything like this. Insurance companies LOVE to blame stuff on aftermarket parts especially ones that aren't made for the vehicle (MT).

DJDZ

This is indeed a tough situation.

Your best case scenario is that you file a claim with their insurance co. and hope that they don't contest it. Talk to your insurance company about how to go about the subrogation process.

If they do contest it, then it could get messy if you have to go to court. From a legal standpoint (I'm not a lawyer but just remembering from my business law classes) lox would have to prove the valet failed to provide "ordinary and reasonable care" in driving his car. This could be difficult if there are no witnesses that saw if the valet drove irresponsibly and crashed his TSX to the wall. The valet company will likely argue the RS caused the car to jerk forward and crash into the wall. They will say he should not have had a RS in a MT car in the first place and they will likely argue that he did not take any steps to inform the valet he even had a remote start or disable it before he handed the car over. So it is also possible for them to say that he also failed to exercise reasonable car before he handed over the care to the valet. So by the time it gets to court, the judge will likely find both sides partially at fault because there is no conclusive evidence that the valet carried 100% of the blame.

Good luck man and I do hope you get fully compensated for all of your damages from the valet co. But I am just letting you know of the obstacles you could be faced with if this does go to court.

Motohip

Well said.

Black_6spd

Are there any security cameras in the location?

STL

Alin10123

Whoa! That really sucks! I hope you get every penny from them to get your car fixed. Why would they be remote starting your car anyways??? Even if they hit it by mistake... it's still their fault for doing it by mistake. That's why they have insurance. It really hurts to look at those pics. Especially rims that nice./